Turtle PLD to DD PLD: When to make the switch?

[Chen]

how do you use two of a rare item? <_<

ok you got me there >< atm i use herc/mermaid, assumed they weren't rare, i used savatta at the time, rajas now so i never had to deal with that problem

[rog]

http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/jobs.h...58233761513638

[The Q]

you should always have Defender up.

Wait, what?

It's been my experience that every time I've tried to use defender all it has done is reduce my damage output. Damage taken remains the same.

[hagun]

Defender doesn't reduce your damage taken? I think you are using it wrong. Try swapping in INT to make Defender more potent.

[Eaglestrike]

Defender doesn't reduce your damage taken? I think you are using it wrong. Try swapping in INT to make Defender more potent.

A potential 5% less damage taken is not worth the 75% damage done you lose by using defender. Defender is nothing more than a last resort in a tough fight after hate has been established. It should NOT be used much if at all in an exp situation.

[hagun]

You are right, Defender is worthless in general and reduces your damage dealt by 75%.

[noodles355]

Any overcamping is not by my choice, trust me.

Well it is by choice, you always have the option of saying "we'll be overcamping. we can get better EXP at [location]".

I do it all the time, and 99% of the time, they listen and we go to a good camp. The other 1% you get some bellend who's god's gift to everything and won't stop being an arse. But in that situation I have little trouble /pcmd leaving.

[seiji]

DD @59+ (hauby)

[BerenTebogo]

This is what I use at the moment - ignore the subjob (did 27-45 yesterday so ignore some of the stupid choices)

Ambiguous is Blitz Ring / Buckler Earring / Tilt Belt / War Sword / Strike Shield

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d1...611_084325.jpg

My opinion on DD PLD is basically make the switch when you hit your haub (+1) I did PLD before all this DD revelation bullshit came out and I remember dinging into Koenig gear and tanking imps in it. I'm looking forward to the change this time around.

Anticipated gear setup for me and that I would recommend @59 would be:
Best level appropriate sword / Sentinel's Shield / some ranged item that I don't have
Sipahi Turban / PCC / Assault / Buckler
Haub +1 / Gothic (I'm 0/a while on these so maybe ACC+5 hands) / Blitz (promies) / Sniper +1
Amemet +1 (w/e before this) / life belt (promies) / royal knight's breeches / AF feet

I don't anticipate many problems but I haven't given myself over to /NIN in EXP yet but I will try it once 59.

I always bring BRD/WHM + RDM/WHM pt'd up dual PL wherever I go for EXP though so that may be something to factor in.

[hypnotizd]

I always bring BRD/WHM + RDM/WHM pt'd up dual PL wherever I go for EXP though so that may be something to factor in.

Then you could probably tank naked and it wouldn't matter =/ Try your DD setup without outside heal and see how you fare. Not everyone has access to PL (let alone BRD + RDM dual PL) and they are suggesting DD PLD is the way to go. I just don't see it happening for a standard party setup.

[BerenTebogo]

Well like I said - I originally leveld PLD the old fashioned way back when people WANTED M feet to drop from aspid.

I have my reservations about the /NIN and being a pseudo rampage WAR but haub +1 has roughly the same DEF as AF body - maybe ditch the sniper +1 and pop on a jelly ring - but overall alot of DD gear has decent DEF and some HP

[Thoreau]

There seems to be a few things missing from most 'DD PLD' arguments:

* Tanking has more to do with ~Hate Control~ than ~Keeping Hate~. Saying you 'never lost hate' means that you could have improved your kill rate if your party members could have output more damage, regardless of what playstyle you are using to tank. There are times when letting that mob-killing-machine of a DD loose two shadows so you can add a second to your cool down timers offers better party flow.

* The average quality of party members can play a part in your decision. If you group exclusively with LS members who you trust to know their jobs and how to react when things go south, then you have an entirely different set of circumstances than someone who has to stand around Whitegate LFG. Having constant access to PL(s) changes the dynamic even more.

* XP Loss and downtime due to a death needs to be considered when calculating the mythical XP per hour.

* Evidence obtained in a limited test cannot apply to every situation.

* Meriting and end game activities are completely different than The Grind.

When things got ugly, I liked being able to absolutely rely on being able to get it under control ASAP.

A bad Link (non-birds of course)? An over-aggressive puller? Two unexpected simultaneous pulls? Sleep keeps failing on your next target? Party member disconnecting? Healer going AFK without warning (again)? The famous last words of "Let's keep going with four while we look for new members" - Those were times that I was glad to be a turtle.

I very openly admit to my bias; I preferred blood tanking in XP. While DD PLD in in the 50s-70s can work just fine, I personally found turtling to be of more benefit overall as well as offering better survivability (both my own and my wards).

No matter which route you take though, I think most can agree to how enjoyable PLD can be to level (as long as you can keep the pt invites rolling in).

[Deimos]

Personally I just stayed in "turtle" mode until 70. People weren't inviting a PLD expecting me to contribute any significant amount of damage, I was usually there so that everybody else didn't have to sub NIN to stay alive. Also, as some other people have mentioned, most people are obsessed with partying on overly-high mobs to kill slowly and get huge xp per fight instead of understanding that killing lower mobs faster is better over time. So unless you're the leader of every party you make, I would expect that you're going to be overhunting fairly often, which isn't ideal for the "hybrid" builds.

However, at 70 I switched to full-out DD with NIN sub. Company Sword/Joyeuse is really strong, and with Dusk gear and Suppanomimi at 72, along with all the other DD gear PLD can wear, it can be pretty powerful. I actually outdamaged a fair number of the random people that I partied with in the last levels. I did have to build most of my own parties though, most people aren't going to give a PLD a chance at a DD slot when there's... anything else at all available.