Nerfin Them Hardmodes

[Warudo Ecksu]

I personally don't care that they're nerfing hard modes. Like Arv said we're on a 2 day raid schedule in BG. We have people bitching about wanting to clear some hard modes, but there's only so much you can do in two days. If this will get them their extra achievement points, then fuck yes, less bitching to worry about.

[Arvin]

Kael'thas was a awesome 25man encounter, especially when it was challenging.

seconded, fucking took forever to down him pre-nerf when he was such a challenge and when it finally happened it felt so fucking amazing. I never felt that way about any game including FF11 in terms of accomplishment before.

[Boyiee]

seconded, fucking took forever to down him pre-nerf when he was such a challenge and when it finally happened it felt so fucking amazing. I never felt that way about any game including FF11 in terms of accomplishment before.

Yeah never felt too cockblocked in ffxi... always felt like if you were willing to spend 6+ hours there and throw bodies at the thing you'd be fine. Grueling fights yeah, but not as mentally challenging (fatigue not included, as it goes both ways).

[Gulkeeva]

haha yeah, I remember when guilds back at those days... and especially hearing those 40 man wins, you'd hear people crying and stuff like it was some sort of life long goal/achievement, and people would be talking about it for days.

[Plow]

I personally don't care that they're nerfing hard modes. Like Arv said we're on a 2 day raid schedule in BG. We have people bitching about wanting to clear some hard modes, but there's only so much you can do in two days. If this will get them their extra achievement points, then fuck yes, less bitching to worry about.

Why should "hard modes" be something just anyone can do?

Doesn't that take out the whole "hard" part and just make them "modes"?


Where's the achievement in that?


I mean, nothing against BG WoW or anything, but if you can't do hard modes because you're not willing to put in the time... there are *WAY* more than enough guilds on mal'ganis that are.


You want to experience the content with your friends who have limited schedules, that's fine, that's what normal, and various phases of hard modes are for.


"We only spend a few hours a week" is no excuse to ask for nerfs to hard modes of content you can do with those people without doing hard modes.


I mean, I just don't see what you gain by getting shit nerfed. The accomplishment status is taken out, all you're really gaining is the ability to say "yeah I did that."

[Boyiee]

The accomplishment status is taken out, all you're really gaining is the ability to say "yeah I did that."

That's pretty much all it feels like I said when I talk about/compare pre nerf muru/kj vashj kt ms cthun etc.

Eventually, that's what it all turns into anyway.

For a couple months, 3 maybe, WOW YOU ARE AWESOME... WE STILL HAVENT DOWNED THAT! then after those 3-4 months, when the next content update comes out... it's forgotten, and the question becomes "have you downed this yet? no? other guilds have..." and then again becomes the first part of the cycle all over again.

This just quickens it up a little bit. It happens anyway, no one cares, its digital dragons. The hard modes are still hard, are they not? Is the problem that everyone wants to get them downed while they are still hard and before they are nerfed? For the bragging rights and such, and to say they did what 90% of the population couldn't do? I understand that, and I've been there... but then again, if you want to down it while it's still hard, why aren't you working on it right now? How many attempts/hours is it going to take you? Those guilds that have killed them already, they've put countless hours into it. Probably the equivalent of several weeks worth of attempts for most of us. How many hours do you want to waste working at it? Blizzard is doing you a favor by tuning them down a little, and getting more people to do it before 3.2 hits and we have new stuff to kill. So what if you aren't that top 1%, or 5%, you're still most definitely in the top 10%, and you'll still have the bragging rights. The fights are still hard, and are going to take you >24hours of work to do most likely. If you wan't to be out there getting in the higher percentile, you would be doing it right now instead of saying you want hard modes to stay hard, and that you want harder modes.

You act like noobs are going to be able to do this soon and take away from your accomplishment... Sure, sarth3D is puggable, but some of uld shit sure as hell wont be. Not before the next instance is released anyway. And as mentioned before, aren't these hardmodes going down slower than bosses in tbc did?

Understand that for every 1 of you saying these hard modes should remain hard, there is probably 10,000 people who want them tuned down even the slightest bit... so that they can have that sick weapon before 3.2, or 3.3 is released. Also understand, that eventually, the nerfs are going to happen even quicker than they are now, and the accomplishments will no longer remain as great as they are now - because the US vs. EU race is going to be gone soon. The tai servers caught up to US/EU when the patch came out a week later for them. They'll end up taking over eventually and probably just get every and all achieve first as long patches are timed better for them in the future.

As for me, sure I like hard bosses and fought them, but I also want to throw my controller when I play ninja gaiden... I've broken headsets in tbc. I hear people smash keyboards all the time. Now that I'm paying for my own shit, fuck that, I just want that sick weapon before 3.2 or 3.3 is released.

[Plow]

Some people care a *LOT* more about the challenge and entertainment involved in actually doing the hard fights than about bragging rights or 5 more sp.

[Boyiee]

Some people care a *LOT* more about the challenge and entertainment involved in actually doing the hard fights than about bragging rights or 5 more sp.

It's still there though. If you want to do it pre nerf, play more, and get into a top 100 guild. And how nerfed are these fights really if there is like sub 10 algalon kills and how many alone in the darkness? Hard mode algalons?

Patch was released on 4/14 right? It's 6/14.

2.1 (Black temple) was out on 5/22/07, Illidan was downed by 6/5/07...

The fact that there are still things left in ulduar, this long after the patch was released (regardless if easy modes were killed in less time than TBC/Vanilla bosses) really says something. Right now there are guilds just spamming hardmodes till they get it down just to be one of the first to down it. Ulduar is still hard, the achievement is still there, it still takes the same effort.

[Plow]

It's still there though. If you want to do it pre nerf, play more, and get into a top 100 guild. And how nerfed are these fights really if there is like sub 10 algalon kills and how many alone in the darkness? Hard mode algalons?

Patch was released on 4/14 right? It's 6/14.

2.1 (Black temple) was out on 5/22/07, Illidan was downed by 6/5/07...

You're comparing how long it takes to get hard modes down to how long it took to kill things that didn't have hard modes...

The fact that there are still things left in ulduar, this long after the patch was released (regardless if easy modes were killed in less time than TBC/Vanilla bosses) really says something.

Yeah, and that "something" is a good thing.

Because that "something" it says is "hey we figured out how to keep people entertained and challenged actually fighting bosses instead of spamming dailies for shoulder enchants."

Right now there are guilds just spamming hardmodes till they get it down just to be one of the first to down it.

And... there's something wrong with that?

I mean, if mathematically it comes down to luck, fine, fix it. If it comes down to you don't have the gear and/or the skill to down it, that's... wait for it... WoW.

Ulduar is still hard, the achievement is still there, it still takes the same effort.

How does it take the same effort when they nerf it? The personal achievement is not the same when you weren't challenged as much, straight up.



I'm just saying, "we don't have enough non-retarded people" is not a reason to nerf shit, it's a reason to stop recruiting retards and get rid of the ones you have.

[Correction]

So wait, P4 Mimiron casting Barrage and Nova/Blast at the same time was avoidable in Hard Mode by not being a retard? I'm confused.

[Plow]

Like I said, obvious balance issues, and shit that makes fights come down to raw luck, fine, fix it, no complaints from me.

[Boyiee]

You're comparing how long it takes to get hard modes down to how long it took to kill things that didn't have hard modes...

Yeah, and that "something" is a good thing.

Because that "something" it says is "hey we figured out how to keep people entertained and challenged actually fighting bosses instead of spamming dailies for shoulder enchants."

And... there's something wrong with that?

I mean, if mathematically it comes down to luck, fine, fix it. If it comes down to you don't have the gear and/or the skill to down it, that's... wait for it... WoW.

How does it take the same effort when they nerf it? The personal achievement is not the same when you weren't challenged as much, straight up.

I'm just saying, "we don't have enough non-retarded people" is not a reason to nerf shit, it's a reason to stop recruiting retards and get rid of the ones you have.

I'm confused... what are you arguing with me for? You're being agreed with... I said that the hard modes are a good thing, and speaking generally to the posters above you bashing the nerfs - I'm saying that these bosses are taking longer than bosses in the past nerf or no nerf.

It still takes the same effort because you are still putting the 30-60hours in to down the encounter. That tiny nerf or not, it still does.

I agree with the "we dont have enough people capable" and the "we are limited by times", hard modes arent for you. And that these little nerfs people are bitching about aren't changing much at all really. People are complaining just to complain. It's still an accomplishment to kill something in the top 100, post 100 most people don't care though so grats on the self achievement. If it took you post nerf to get >100 ranking then you werent good enough pre nerf to get <100 ranking. Most of these things are going to be good self achievements if their done pre 3.2, still even 3.3 probably. These little nerfs are not going to change that.

[Plow]

My bad, I misunderstood, since you were quoting me I thought you were intending those as counterpoints to what I had said.

[Boyiee]

Thats partially my fault, I haven't slept in a while.

I was kinda tossing both sides into it. Mostly a "who cares about the nerf it's still hard and most people complaining wont down it anyway". The fights will still be hard after these little nerfs, it's when they take a 20% health deduction that the greater 90% of players will get to do the encounter.

Alone in the dark and algalon achievements are no joke. With or without nerfs, there will be that FUCK YES WE DID IT WE ARE FUCKING BEASTS to people that do it.

[Arvin]

I wasn't saying that I'm glad they're nerfing it. I'm actually peeved that we don't have the time to kill pre-nerfed content. The severity of the nerfs aren't as bad as they used to be anyways so it's not comparable to lets say... someone saying they killed pre-nerf kil'jaeden to post-nerf kil'jaeden. The severity of the sunwell nerf was massive

[Boyiee]

How much time do you need? It's been 2 months, and the top top top guilds still haven't cleared some encounters 100%. Push it back to more normalized top end guilds, would 4 months be enough? I'm sorry but after 4-5 months there should be new content released or on the cusp of being released (within weeks). The nerfs are somewhat needed if you look at it in that aspect. Maybe the encounters are overtuned for current gear levels.

[Dezzimal]

What the fuck at all the shitter guilds everywhere killing XT and Flame Leviathan Hardmode this week.

[Gulkeeva]

unsure about XT, but... FL was made joke pretty much (somehow people in my guild failing that)

Tried 3 towers but after 5 tries someone died early and asks in vent... "what the hell keeps freezing my vehicle" and then we called it and just did 2... >.>

randomly, blizz announced epic gems for 3.2 thats easy to farm like current blue quality gems... working up the honor/tokens to epic out my characters atm

[Arvin]

What the fuck at all the shitter guilds everywhere killing XT and Flame Leviathan Hardmode this week.

im sorry bro its pretty gay

i wont feel a sense of anything when we kill it on thursday

[Naramaska]

im sorry bro its pretty gay

i wont feel a sense of anything when we kill it on thursday

We 6-manned FL25 last night with mostly-blue geared alts. It's a joke now; if we weren't working on Firefighter and Love the Smell of Saronite in 10's this week, we probably could have banged out 4T