Is there a reason you cant sell coins on AH?

[Yugl]

AH would be a lot better. I'm on my third relic. Running around shouting for coins all day is so much fail. I would like to be able to just buy 70 m silvers off AH than run around looking to find 1 or 2. This shit is so gay. Makes me wanna just get 30 retards and sponsor.

You're assuming those 70 hundred pieces will be there when you check.

[Killkenny]

AH would be a lot better. I'm on my third relic. Running around shouting for coins all day is so much fail. I would like to be able to just buy 70 m silvers off AH than run around looking to find 1 or 2. This shit is so gay. Makes me wanna just get 30 retards and sponsor.

I find it hard to believe you can be that naive and be on your 3rd relic. Either that or you must be on a very uncompetative server. I don't think there is a single other item in ffxi that can match dynamis currency (and to a lesser extent alex and abc) demand. The way it is now keeps prices low because it is impossible to monopolise due to the fact there is so many sources, if you were to consolidate them on the AH prices would shoot up as the very rich would either buy it all up with an intent to resell for more or to upgrade.

There would never be 70 M silvers on AH because they all would've been bought and the availibility would be controlled by people who stockpile (undercutting wouldn't be an issue because they would sell so fast).

If you had any sense you would get 30 retards and sponser because it would have to be beyond comprehension in terms of how bad the run went for you to not make a decent profit on any city or glacier.

[Arthars]

it sure will be easier to buy coins, and cheaper coins from the AH...............FOR EVERYONE

but that doesnt help a serious maker in speeding his relic, and infact, will slow him down because more mofo will buy "for fun" from AH
do you think there will actually have stocks in the AH?
well except overpriced ones of course, because cheap ones will be camped to death. /shout will eventually be lol at because people would rather AH them up for overprice when the above happens, than eventually take it out from their mog house and sell to serious makers

i hope you know what im talking about

[Spider-Dan]

I like how people seem to think that with coins on AH, people will just start throwing away stacks of currency on unfinished stage 2 relics, but under the current system, these same people just stand around saying "how does I buyed bazaar?"

Buying/selling coins under the current system is not some sort of unknowable, arcane, secret-handshake system. It's just more tedious and annoying. That's it.

The argument that people will just "buy and resell currency higher" fails pretty quickly when you stop to think where people will be reselling. And that's the biggest fundamental problem with the anti-AH position: if the AH is so bad, then why does it work perfectly fine for everything else? Why aren't you clamoring for everything to be moved to a stone-age person-to-person trading system?

[Killkenny]

Well for one thing you don't need 17,000~ individual units of anything else to get the item.

Yes people are really that lazy that they won't run all the way from home nation/whitegate to jeuno to check bazaars unless they are serious, but there is a good chance they are already standing infront of the AH in whitegate and therefore much more likely to buy some.

Most consumeables are cheap to make and you can vendor the ingrediants so there is a limitless supply, equipment like haubergeons once made will most likely be in circulation forever (and if you remember items like haubergeon was vastly more expensive in proportion to everything else than they are now because of the fact they keep circulating). Dynamis currency is of limited supply and it doesn't go back into circulation once its been used (or atleast the vast majority of it) so its really not the same as other items at all.

There is a lot of secret handshaking going on, the more people you know and are friends with the more likely you are to get a supply of cheaper coins and if this is prearranged then these coins will never see a bazaar.

[Kipling]

Upper Jeuno is where all the cool kids hang.

^ Word.

[Reiokyu]

This pretty much answers your question. AH camping would become an issue if coins could hit the AH.

^ This.

[Gtype954]

I always forget 100s can stack.. AH tax on a stack of Silver pieces would suck lol....

Why would you pay tax for 99 M.silver when you can just sell a gold peice x1.
Either way that thing would cost over 100mil so the tax would suck anyway. I have never seen a 10,000 peice in rolanberry ever.

[Spider-Dan]

Yes people are really that lazy that they won't run all the way from home nation/whitegate to jeuno to check bazaars unless they are serious, but there is a good chance they are already standing infront of the AH in whitegate and therefore much more likely to buy some.

Seriously, if this is the argument against coins on AH, you guys are completely delusional.

If you seriously believe that teleporting to Jeuno and checking some bazaars (or hell, just /shouting in Whitegate) is THE SOLE FACTOR keeping people that actually plan to finish a relic (remember: NO ONE starts actually upgrading a relic if they themselves don't believe that they'll finish) from buying up currency, I have some fine oceanfront property in Nebraska that you may be interested in.

Sure, they're willing to spend hundreds of millions of gil, drag their LS to attestation mob, and drag their LS to animated weapon... but checking bazaars in Rolanberry is where the line is drawn?

As for AH camping: economics cat says hi. If people are camping the AH and buying every single coin as soon as it goes on the AH, wouldn't that mean that demand would outstrip supply? Quick, how does a free-market economy compensate for demand that greatly exceeds supply?

[Utau]

I'm trying to figure out why SE doesn't let you sell alex, dynamis loot, ABC, etc on auction house. It sucks that people are in rolanmart buying shit low and selling it high. server mules and shit like that. I wonder what the hell was SE thinking when they came up with this.

Do you know how much time its gonna take you sell 76 or X non 99 stack number on AH? like "Oh let me put this 7 on AH and wati so i can sell this another 7" thats one reason ppl prefer to sell it to rolanmart, you can sell anything w/o have the complete stack of it and w/o pay lots of taxes

[Yugl]

Seriously, if this is the argument against coins on AH, you guys are completely delusional.

If you seriously believe that teleporting to Jeuno and checking some bazaars (or hell, just /shouting in Whitegate) is THE SOLE FACTOR keeping people that actually plan to finish a relic (remember: NO ONE starts actually upgrading a relic if they themselves don't believe that they'll finish) from buying up currency, I have some fine oceanfront property in Nebraska that you may be interested in.

Sure, they're willing to spend hundreds of millions of gil, drag their LS to attestation mob, and drag their LS to animated weapon... but checking bazaars in Rolanberry is where the line is drawn?

As for AH camping: economics cat says hi. If people are camping the AH and buying every single coin as soon as it goes on the AH, wouldn't that mean that demand would outstrip supply? Quick, how does a free-market economy compensate for demand that greatly exceeds supply?

Many HNM/EG/Dynamis LSs do Dynamis based on a specific schedule. Since Dynamis zones are not constantly occupied, it should follow that coins will hit the AH in cycles. This would mean that there are also specific time periods when coins are available. This means that people who play in certain time zones will have more access to coins than those that don't.

Ex: Lets say Dynamis shells only do Dynamis at 3PM/9PM/1AM (Just a hypothetical situation of course). If leaders are selling right after the run, then coins would be available approximately at 6-7PM/12-1AM/3-4AM. What happens to the people who play during other time periods?

Note: This is a hypothetical situation. However, since it's a possibility, it's better for SE to not take action than for them to fix a problem that follows.

[Spider-Dan]

This game is played in 9 different time zones (5 NA, 3 EU, 1 JP). Even if every LS did runs at exactly [x] PM their time, and immediately put coins on AH following the run, I don't think time differences would be a special advantage to one group over another.

But more importantly, this speaks to my earlier statement about supply and demand: if coins are always bought up the instant they hit the AH, then prices will rise until that ceases to happen. This is not very complicated at all.

[MaachaQ]

This game is played in 9 different time zones (5 NA, 3 EU, 1 JP). Even if every LS did runs at exactly [x] PM their time, and immediately put coins on AH following the run, I don't think time differences would be a special advantage to one group over another.

But more importantly, this speaks to my earlier statement about supply and demand: if coins are always bought up the instant they hit the AH, then prices will rise until that ceases to happen. This is not very complicated at all.

There's also the AH bot mule issue. The person botting need not be present to watch their mule buy things for them. This AH bot would likely be on a separate account from their main character, so they could bot buy stuff 24/7.

[Yugl]

This game is played in 9 different time zones (5 NA, 3 EU, 1 JP). Even if every LS did runs at exactly [x] PM their time, and immediately put coins on AH following the run, I don't think time differences would be a special advantage to one group over another.

But more importantly, this speaks to my earlier statement about supply and demand: if coins are always bought up the instant they hit the AH, then prices will rise until that ceases to happen. This is not very complicated at all.

That's not necessarily the case though. There probably would be an initial spike increase in price, but that would gradually reach a norm after a while. The problem isn't necessarily supply but rather consistent supply. Look at Splitting Heirs for a case example. In periods where capes are abundant (Aka when the coins are hitting the AH), the price declines. As Ops is taken away and the capes start to run out, the capes increase in price. However, when the Ops returns, it doesn't continue to sell at that inflated price. It decreases because capes hit the AH at a high rate. So instead of high consistent supply, you see waves of supplies.

I think your assumption is that prices would continue to rocket until buyers stop purchasing coins. However, it may turn out to have the same cycle pattern as Splitting Heir's items. You're right though. If they make an AH system, expect an increase in price. However, if people choose not to buy those coins, then the people incoming on the next wave would see the amount of coins on the AH and choose to maintain their coins at the regular price (Remember undercutting people!). Since the time at which they put up coins would run on a cycle, the people who would normally afford coins will get them at cheaper prices.

Simply put, there will be two waves when it comes to coin purchasing. Cheap coin purchasing tide (The point at which coins hit the AH) and Expensive coin purchasing tide (The point at which the coins from that wave are nearly done).

It all depends on what you're trying to achieve by making coins available on the AH. Do you want availability? If so, you may get just that. However, if you're unfortunate enough to only play at a time when they're expensive, you're screwed.

[Spider-Dan]

Splitting Heirs is a bad example, as it's tied to a weekly regional status. When supply is stopped (for everyone) and demand continues, prices will fluctuate wildly.

Dynamis is done all the time by lots and lots of people; virtually everyone has access to it. Prices will not explode crazily (in the long term); if currency prices skyrocketed, with glasses at 500k, you would see a wave of low-man groups farming cities and putting up coins round-the-clock.

Talk of AH bots and what not still fails to address the fundamental issue: sellers WILL raise the prices on coins until they reach a point where NO ONE is willing to pay for them. This is an economic certainty. Therefore, the idea that coins will perpetually be snatched off the AH before the masses can buy them is nonsense. The only thing that the AH would do is speed the process of standardizing the accepted value of currency (a value that would be more representative of what currency's true worth is).

[Gere]

Everyone in this topic except Spider-Dan needs to get back to leaving "I hate fucking undercutters!!!!111!" comments on ffxiah.

[Yugl]

Splitting Heirs is a bad example, as it's tied to a weekly regional status. When supply is stopped (for everyone) and demand continues, prices will fluctuate wildly.

Dynamis is done all the time by lots and lots of people; virtually everyone has access to it. Prices will not explode crazily (in the long term); if currency prices skyrocketed, with glasses at 500k, you would see a wave of low-man groups farming cities and putting up coins round-the-clock.

LSs are fixed to a Dynamis schedule. Pick up Dynamises are rare (At least here) and risk mass wiping without good returns. Honestly, such instances of L-man and Pick up Dynamis are so rare (Once again, speaking for here since I don't know the status of your server) that its effect is minuscule. LSs fixed on a schedule are likely to be the main providers of currency. Since they're on a fixed schedule, there are certain periods where currency will be in abundance and times where it won't.

Talk of AH bots and what not still fails to address the fundamental issue: sellers WILL raise the prices on coins until they reach a point where NO ONE is willing to pay for them. This is an economic certainty. Therefore, the idea that coins will perpetually be snatched off the AH before the masses can buy them is nonsense. The only thing that the AH would do is speed the process of standardizing the accepted value of currency (a value that would be more representative of what currency's true worth is).

You're going to have to explain this a little better because I don't see how this addresses the glaring problem of AH bots. People worry that botters will take over the AH if coins are allowed. The concern is over availability of coins. True, prices can increase to a point where no one wants to buy them. However, all this does is leave high priced coins. The only coins that will be available to non-botters are coins that are overpriced. Is that anymore of a solution?

[Spider-Dan]

LSs are fixed to a Dynamis schedule. Pick up Dynamises are rare (At least here) and risk mass wiping without good returns. Honestly, such instances of L-man and Pick up Dynamis are so rare (Once again, speaking for here since I don't know the status of your server) that its effect is minuscule.

[...]

People worry that botters will take over the AH if coins are allowed. The concern is over availability of coins. True, prices can increase to a point where no one wants to buy them. However, all this does is leave high priced coins. The only coins that will be available to non-botters are coins that are overpriced.

These things are all tied together. Again, the fundamental principle behind it all is: It's The Economy, Stupid. Let's walk through the scenario:

- coins are allowed on AH
- there is a mad dash on coins any time they are put up, and sellers get greedy and start charging greatly increased prices (for argument's sake, 30/40/50k or 3/4/5m for 100s).
- people selling singles in rol-mart (or AH, really) quickly adjust their prices to this rate or higher (because anything selling for less than that is immediately bought up and packaged into a 100 for AH)
- a (full LS) city Dynamis run that gives ~300 singles and ~2-6 100s now results in a ~30m return on a 500k investment; profiteers quit dynamis shells to form low-man groups (along with people who weren't in dyna shells) because dynamis is now by far the most profitable event in the game
- the people who are stupid enough to to pay these kind of prices for currency quickly have their wealth redistributed to the masses (and unlike 2005, there is no gilseller backbone to prop up the bubble economy with generated gil)
- after everyone who is desperate enough to pay retarded prices for currency goes broke (or gets a relic) and the market continues to be flooded by profiteers, the market slowly settles down to prices approximating the ones we have now

AH bots are irrelevant because they can't do anything more than buy currency at the price it's being sold for. They are a short-term concern (if you are a currency buyer), but have zero impact on the economy.

[chiyio]

if SE make coins AH-able, i can tell you that the speed of producing a relic will be at least 10 times slower than it is

it is tradable and bazzarable so as to minimise trading and sales, so only the serious ones will go look around, buying and trading, and not some mofos buying a few off AH, waste them, and quit or trade in stage 1 and 2

that few adds up to many and evenutally slow relic makers down

Very very wrong. As it has been said, people shout to buy currency at reasonable prices, and complete fucktards sell reasonably priced currency to others whos only means is to sell it for and upped value.

It would probably lead to more AH bots, however with a place for people to 'dump' their 1-3 coins instead of sitting in a bazaar hoping someone picks it up, a reasonable price would become standardized to all instead of just the morons who think 1.5m for a silverpiece is ok.

As it has been said, it costs 500k to enter dynamis. At 15k per Bronzepiece, you need 34 coins just to break even. Me, and 4 friends all 2boxing can very easily maintain ourselves in dynamis. It would require very careful pulling, but I dont see how it wouldnt be possible to last a good hour in there:
PT setup:
BLM BLM THF
DD DD DD WHM BRD RDM

Keep the pulls small, and only to whats necessary and you should easily hit the 007 009 026 and 041 TE's, for a 85 minute bonus. Heading past the west gate may be problematic, but I'm pretty sure after doing 8 man dynamis for 2 hours and 25 minutes, you'll very easily walk off with more than the 34 necessary currency.


edit:
This is why dynamis areas get occupied with lowman groups, because all it takes is 34 Broncepieces to break even. People who are willing to pay 15k for Bronze, usually from someone who paid 9k for it, are morons, plain and simple.

[Killkenny]

Where did this notion that everyone upgrading a relic was doing it individually. There are a lot of linkshells out there who fully upgrade relics for their members at a very fast rate. They certainly don't get all the currency they need by sticking to a strict price on what they will pay for currency, they buy it up at inflated prices because they can make gil almost as fast as they can spend it.

No being too lazy to walk all the way to jeuno isn't the only reason we don't have 50 stage 1-2 relics to every upgraded one anymore but it is a factor. If dynamis wasn't so insanely profitable for the sponser and most ls went back to the split glass/coins method then you would see a huge increase in people deluded into thinking they can upgrade.

Dynamis San d'Oria can be extremely profitable with small man groups of 6-12 people but again, most players are too lazy/retarded to do it and thats why you don't have 50 people gathered around markings at any given time (there are a number of low man groups but nowhere close to what you would expect given the potential a lowman group has).

People will keep paying 15k for bronze and the poorer people will keep calling them idiots/impatient, if you allow them to do it from the AH then it just makes it so much easier and prices will stabilise at a higher average than they are now.