Netanyahu agrees to a limited Palestinian state... with conditions...

[kuronosan]

Netanyahu accepts limited Palestinian state - Israel-Palestinians- msnbc.com

"If we get this guarantee for demilitarization and necessary security arrangements for Israel, and if the Palestinians recognize Israel as the state of the Jewish people, we will be willing in a real peace agreement to reach a solution of a demilitarized Palestinian state alongside the Jewish state," he said.

"I call on you, our Palestinian neighbors, and to the leadership of the Palestinian Authority: Let us begin peace negotiations immediately, without preconditions," he said. "Israel is committed to international agreements and expects all the other parties to fulfill their obligations as well."

Interesting. Although to me it sounds like more of the same.

[Elvis]

Why should the Palestinian de-militarize? They already can't compete with the 4th strongest military power in the world with an air-force stronger than any NATO power (cept' the US of course).

The catch is recognizing Israel as a 'Jewish State' which means that the Palestinians have to give up their right of return. Israel was accepted into the United Nations on the assumption that it would accept that right. And considering they went ahead and accepted the UN Partition Plan, you cannot say they disregard the UN.

They simply do so when it suits them (like ever since 48').

Anyways, this plan is garbage. It's even worse than the previous proposals.

There are 5 million Palestinian refugees living around the ME. Another 5 million Palestinians live in Israel and the OT.

Of course none of this fits in with international law. It's more along the lines of a political settlement. It's not fair and practical for the Palestinians but they do not have the political capital necessary to approach the negotiating tables as equals so they are at the mercy of the US and Israel.

The Arab governments are complicit in all of this. I don't think any of them (maybe Jordan actually) have allowed the Palestinian refugees to become citizens in their countries.

[kuronosan]

Yea, well basically that was my point. Netanyahu says there is no condition for recognizing Palestine but then goes on to name a few.

It's hypocritical garbage that he's spewing in an attempt to have Obama back off (I think someone had mentioned before that all he's doing is trying to stall and isn't trying to do anything).

For example, how is demilitarizing Palestine ensuring Israeli security? If there was peace then it wouldn't make much of a difference. Not to mention Israel has little to worry about with armed or unarmed Palestinians... they have an extremely strong military.

I think Netanyahu is just showing, as he has been, that he is more interested in subduing the Palestinians and less interested in peace.

[Despain]

Its a step.

[kuronosan]

In the wrong direction.

[pohibaba]

Hopefully President Obama calls this for what it is: political bullshit. I've been encouraged by President Obama's discussions with Israel and the illusion that he won't play ball with them, but he needs to step up to the plate at some point and take the next step: cutting off aid to Israel unless they end their genocidal occupation of Palestinian lands.

[kuronosan]

Yea... reading over the article again all I can really feel like is that this is just political fluff that Israel is using to get Obama to back off. I hope he comes out and says "Look, sorry, that's not good enough. They have every right to have the same rights that you have and until you accept that and quit your bullshit there won't ever be peace."

[Elvis]

Look at a map of the West Bank and tell me where a viable State would exist. It's broken up into cantons and split up by the Wall.

Israel has been building these 'facts-on-the-ground' for decades. Bibi is not going to stop the expansion of settlements either (according to AP).

Anyways, look up the International Court of Justice ruling or the World Court ruling.

The Palestinians have rights just as Jews have rights. We constantly hear about security but compare the situations and the casualties.

This is a relationship of master and slave. Sure, the Palestinians can accept this settlement - and who am I to judge, I am not Palestinian and I have no idea personally how hard it must be to live there - but it will not be just and they will be giving up all their international rights.

Essentially, this settlement is asking them to forsake the entire struggle and let everything that's happened slide. Meanwhile, Israel gets away with murder - quite literally.

Now as a matter of practicality - yes, if we don't talk about right and wrong and certainly laws and individual 'rights' then sure, this is technically a step in the right direction because it will stop the fighting.

But then you have to ask yourself why people were fighting in the first place. They were fighting for their rights.

I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to understand that this is about the more powerful entity setting the conditions and then establishing the terms and then imposing an ultimatum.

This is complete capitulation of the Palestinian cause. They are not immigrants. That's their home. And they are being asked to simply forget who they are and give in.

[Kuya]

Interesting. So for whatever reason, Israel is more capable and therefore is justified in having a military, but Palestine isn't. Sounds like more bullshit.

Actually, all of this is just a canard. That stupid fuck needs to shut up and do what Obama says.

[guartz]

Interesting. So for whatever reason, Israel is more capable and therefore is justified in having a military, but Palestine isn't. Sounds like more bullshit.

Actually, all of this is just a canard. That stupid fuck needs to shut up and do what Obama says.

If Obama doesn't support this plan, think they'll call him American yasser arafat?

[Kuya]

Whatever marginalizes them further:

Mondoweiss: Shocker: Number of Americans who say U.S. should support Israel drops from 71% to 44% in one year

According to the poll, conducted among a rather large sample (800 registered voters) between June 9 and June 11, there has been a 20% drop (!) in the perception of Israel’s government as peace seeking. Here are the data. The question asked was: “And, how committed do you think the Israeli government, led by Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, is to reaching a peace agreement with the Palestinians?” A similar question (“How committed do you think the Israeli government is to reaching a peace agreement with the Palestinians?”) was asked in December 2008 and in March 2009. In December and March, the results were almost identical: 66% said it was committed and 29% (in December) and 30% (in March) said it was not. This month, however, in the light of the open conflict on Israeli-Palestinian peace between Bibi and Obama, only 46% say Israel is committed and 39% say it is not.

Furthermore, there is a steep decline in the percentage of Americans who say that the U.S. should support Israel. That has dropped from 71% in March 2008 (at the time of the Annapolis process) to only 44% now.

[kuronosan]

hahahahha.... now the Israelis will be terrorizing us and saying it's justified.

Oh how the shoe always fits.

[Kuya]

These are some of the things He said today:

-"the demand to settle the Palestinian refugees inside of Israel, contradicts the continued existence of the State of Israel as the state of the Jewish People."

Can't let Palestinian refugees into Israel because the State of Israel is a state of the Jewish people, in other words, only for Jews.

--"The truth is that in the area of our homeland, in the heart of our Jewish Homeland, now lives a large population of Palestinians."

Read this second one and link it with the first one. If what he says in the first one i quoted follows, than the Palestinians need to be kept out of Israel because it is a Jewish state.

--"Palestinians must truly recognize Israel as the state of the Jewish people."

And the Palestinians need to recognize the Jewish state by leaving. That includes Samaria, which is the West Bank.

[Lordender]

so sick of seeing this tick for tack shit on the news. I wish some super being would just come down and be like you have 1 day to stop this shit or i'll just flood the whole country cleasning everyone.

[Zilong]

And leaves 8 jews as the survivor? Fuck that shit.

[Brill Weave]

Let's face it, there will never be peace between Israel and the Palestinians. Israel, won't sign off on anything less than their terms. Which is completely demilitarized, pacified Palestinian population. Which Kuya states perfectly. Israel is justified in having a military but the Palestinians aren't?

[Dimmauk]

so sick of seeing this tick for tack shit on the news. I wish some super being would just come down and be like you have 1 day to stop this shit or i'll just flood the whole country cleasning everyone.

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/i...hezohanlol.gif

[Despain]

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/i...hezohanlol.gif

Disco, disco!

[Davricle]

Every day I'm closer and closer to leaving general and never looking back.

[Dimmauk]

Every day I'm closer and closer to leaving general and never looking back.

Is there anything I can do to help you leave faster? I hate to see people in pain.