The Recent Break Up Club

[Day]

Elaborate? @Tyche

[Tyche]

It sounds like self-serving bullshit. You're giving up before you even try. I'd understand the point in a brief relationship, cool, totally agree. But when two people have a vested interest in a relationship, then they have to learn to give and take. That includes couples helping each other improve their flaws. Noone needs to change, but you have to know what your problems are in order to address them. How effective it is isn't the point at all. If you don't want to or don't know how to "deal with others baggage", then why did you get married? I hope to god that you don't plan on having children. I know it sounds like I'm being overly abrasive, but it really does reek of selfishness and an unwillingness to help others. Maybe they won't change with your help, but by simply choosng not to even bother, they sure as hell aren't going to help themselves. That is a recipe for a doomed relationship.

Whether it's in my relationship or in business, i want to know where I'm fucking up. Maybe that's not true for every 20-24 year old, but when you point out that someone is loud/argumentative/whatever, everytime they discover themselves doing what you complained about, they'll recognize it. Maybe they won't change, but they'll know that they're doing something you disapprove of, and I promise you that that's half the battle.

[Day]

It's interesting seeing the PoV from happy marriage and not so happy marriage.

[Silviya]

I'm with Tyche. I'd rather have the truth with respect to anything, personal flaws included. Then again I value honesty over almost any other trait a person can posses. As long as the person pointing them out does it in a straight forward, "I think you should know" sort of way I won't be offended. I like to know how others perceive me and what I am or could do to change that perception.

[Ivve]

It sounds like self-serving bullshit. You're giving up before you even try. I'd understand the point in a brief relationship, cool, totally agree. But when two people have a vested interest in a relationship, then they have to learn to give and take. That includes couples helping each other improve their flaws. Noone needs to change, but you have to know what your problems are in order to address them. How effective it is isn't the point at all. If you don't want to or don't know how to "deal with others baggage", then why did you get married? I hope to god that you don't plan on having children. I know it sounds like I'm being overly abrasive, but it really does reek of selfishness and an unwillingness to help others. Maybe they won't change with your help, but by simply choosng not to even bother, they sure as hell aren't going to help themselves. That is a recipe for a doomed relationship.

Whether it's in my relationship or in business, i want to know where I'm fucking up. Maybe that's not true for every 20-24 year old, but when you point out that someone is loud/argumentative/whatever, everytime they discover themselves doing what you complained about, they'll recognize it. Maybe they won't change, but they'll know that they're doing something you disapprove of, and I promise you that that's half the battle.

The obvious answer is that I'm married to someone with an amount of baggage that I can handle, and who has made it clear that they're actually interested in hearing what I have to say. I have wasted enough time trying to change people who clearly didn't have any interest in doing so, and I have no interest in falling into another one of those relationships in the future, should I ever be shopping around for another commitment. I simply refuse to put time and effort into people who are not equally interested in bettering themselves.

Effectiveness is every bit the point. I would not continue to stay married to someone who was determined not to grow, change, or in any way become a better person. I think it's interesting that you're so quick to shirk personal responsibility for your own growth. By the time you're looking for a serious relationship, you should be self-aware enough to step back and look at your own actions rationally and judge for yourself whether you're being fair or doing the right thing. That's not to say there's no room for conversation when you're in doubt, but I'm very much done with relationships where I need to "train" someone to be an acceptable partner. I'm sorry if that seems "self-serving" to you.

P.S. I'm going to have more kids than the Duggars and send you their pictures <3

And @Day, I have a pretty solid relationship despite some whining I may do on my part. It's not a perfect relationship; whose is? But I don't feel like I need to spend every waking moment of my life dictating to him what he should be doing. I enjoy not having to manipulate every aspect of another person's behavior.

[Omnipotent]

Dated a girl for about two years, the past year we've been "not dating" but still dating pretty much.

Finally breaking ties as of this week. Not feeling great, but she needs to grow the fuck up. Wish it could have worked out, but just can't deal with it anymore.

much QQing around my house.

Do we have the same girl?

[Tyche]

The obvious answer is that I'm married to someone with an amount of baggage that I can handle, and who has made it clear that they're actually interested in hearing what I have to say. I have wasted enough time trying to change people who clearly didn't have any interest in doing so, and I have no interest in falling into another one of those relationships in the future, should I ever be shopping around for another commitment. I simply refuse to put time and effort into people who are not equally interested in bettering themselves.

Effectiveness is every bit the point. I would not continue to stay married to someone who was determined not to grow, change, or in any way become a better person. I think it's interesting that you're so quick to shirk personal responsibility for your own growth. By the time you're looking for a serious relationship, you should be self-aware enough to step back and look at your own actions rationally and judge for yourself whether you're being fair or doing the right thing. That's not to say there's no room for conversation when you're in doubt, but I'm very much done with relationships where I need to "train" someone to be an acceptable partner. I'm sorry if that seems "self-serving" to you.

P.S. I'm going to have more kids than the Duggars and send you their pictures <3

And @Day, I have a pretty solid relationship despite some whining I may do on my part. It's not a perfect relationship; whose is? But I don't feel like I need to spend every waking moment of my life dictating to him what he should be doing. I enjoy not having to manipulate every aspect of another person's behavior.

You really said none of that in your first post. It read as if you were saying "when I'm in a relationship, they can deal with their own issues". Making statements like "I'm not a life-coach" is a far cry from the above. You say "I refuse to be with someone who cannot put in the time and effort to bettering themselves", but according to your first post, neither do you. You couldn't be bothered trying to help them, they help themselves or it's over. That doesn't leave much room for success. Nonetheless...

Working out issues and helping each other in a relationship is far from "training". To even look at it in that light is absolutely absurd. To be honest, I find that comment in and of itself to be self-serving. Change isn't something you throw into a microwave, nuke it, and pull it out 45 second later to find it's completely done. That's why I found your first post to be almost offensive.

I can almost assure everyone on this board that you really do not know your partner until you've moved in with them. If you've went that far into the relationship, I'd say you have a vested interest, and you damn well better obligate yourself to do whatever need be to help the relationship grow, whether that be to have someone else "nag and bitch" at you, or to "nag and bitch" at them for something that has to improve. I don't know of a successful long-term relationship that is without rocky roads. That's what helps pave the way to a smoother future.

There's nothing "manipulative", nor do you have to "dictate" every possible scenario in your partners life, but as I said, it's give and take. If there is to be success, there are to be sacrifices. There will be sometimes where something needs to be delegated to your partner even if they don't like it. Sometimes you'll have to dictate an aspect of their lives to better the relationship. It happens, and it's sometimes a necessity.

[Posterboy]

Not really a break up, but another "time to move on" type of situation.

So I've been hanging out with this one chick for the past year or so. She's had a bf for like 5 years so I figured...oh well at least I know there's no chance. We hang out and have a really good friendship going. Fast forwards to last month, she dumps him because she finally realizes he doesn't care about anything but himself. I ask her out to a few things, things that we normally would do anyways and shes cool with it. I figure, hey things are going good, and I say "hey, I like spending time with you, our friendship is really good, I'd like to see if we could build a relationship using our established friendship as a foundation"

To which she replies "oh...I don't think I'm ready to date yet.. sorry, and I also think of you as a sweet friend and would hate to jeopardize that"

Swing and a miss! No big deal, I keep going out doing my own thing. I go paintballing with an online pickup group I've met and lo and behold, one of the members has her as his date...and he introduces her as his new girlfriend.

Dang, at least be honest when you are gonna friend zone someone

[Despain]

I'm with Tyche. I'd rather have the truth with respect to anything, personal flaws included. Then again I value honesty over almost any other trait a person can posses. As long as the person pointing them out does it in a straight forward, "I think you should know" sort of way I won't be offended. I like to know how others perceive me and what I am or could do to change that perception.

Honesty is my number one as well. I can't stand being with a woman who lies constantly, even if its small shit. The more she's dishonest with you on anything, the more likely she's hiding a bunch of shit from you, and that shits not healthy in any relationship. The way I see it, there's a difference between girls you want to be with and girls you want to fuck. If its the latter, I could care less as long as the girl knows wtf she's doing in bed :/

Last relationship I was in lasted 7 months because the girl I was with was extremely dishonest. I put looks before personality and honesty, something that no guy should ever do. A girl could look like, or be, a model, but if she's got a shitty personality, screw that noise. Not to say that I'm the perfect boyfriend, but I don't lie to my girlfriend, because I see no reason to. Now I've pretty much made it a point to not get myself involved in any relationship for the time being, at least 'til I'm out of college D:

[MF Perm tha Fineass]

1 Technique 1200 turntable - and i loved it. dont know if I can fix it, she broke the platter.

.

REDRUM

REDRUM

REDRUMMMMMMMMMM

That bitch is dead I know a guy who knows a guy. brt

[Ivve]

You really said none of that in your first post. It read as if you were saying "when I'm in a relationship, they can deal with their own issues". Making statements like "I'm not a life-coach" is a far cry from the above. You say "I refuse to be with someone who cannot put in the time and effort to bettering themselves", but according to your first post, neither do you. You couldn't be bothered trying to help them, they help themselves or it's over. That doesn't leave much room for success. Nonetheless...

Working out issues and helping each other in a relationship is far from "training". To even look at it in that light is absolutely absurd. To be honest, I find that comment in and of itself to be self-serving. Change isn't something you throw into a microwave, nuke it, and pull it out 45 second later to find it's completely done. That's why I found your first post to be almost offensive.

I can almost assure everyone on this board that you really do not know your partner until you've moved in with them. If you've went that far into the relationship, I'd say you have a vested interest, and you damn well better obligate yourself to do whatever need be to help the relationship grow, whether that be to have someone else "nag and bitch" at you, or to "nag and bitch" at them for something that has to improve. I don't know of a successful long-term relationship that is without rocky roads. That's what helps pave the way to a smoother future.

There's nothing "manipulative", nor do you have to "dictate" every possible scenario in your partners life, but as I said, it's give and take. If there is to be success, there are to be sacrifices. There will be sometimes where something needs to be delegated to your partner even if they don't like it. Sometimes you'll have to dictate an aspect of their lives to better the relationship. It happens, and it's sometimes a necessity.

I think you skipped a really important part:

If they want to work their problems out, that's all on them to analyze and decide. I don't get involved in other peoples' soul searching unless it's directly asked of me, because most people really do not want (or care about) your honest opinion -- especially in the moment when you are in the process of splitting up.

Yeah, if someone comes to me and says "What am I doing wrong?" or we're having the discussion that is going to determine the future of the relationship and they ask how they can do better, how we can work this out, etc. then I am willing to work together to solve a problem. Too many times though, people end up in relationships where those words would never come out of the other person's mouth because they just aren't interested in solving the problem.

I don't know how "I don't try to change people" is an offensive thing to say at all, man. You are who you are and you change when you personally feel that you need to, and no amount of talking is going to make a difference to someone who is set in their ways. That's not self-serving, that's just the truth. Those problems are never going to be fixed, no matter how much nagging you do, and over time the resentment grows until there's just no love left in the relationship at all. There are some people who just don't understand how to compromise. I'm not interested in throwing my time away on those people; I don't think anyone is.

And yes, the truth is that I am not a life coach or a therapist. I do not know how to walk people through getting over their entitlement issues or their clinginess issues caused by absentee parenting or any other myriad problems they may have. Some people truly just need professional help to sort out their very serious, deep-seated issues. Your partner is there to be a part of your support system, not magically solve all of your problems and it's pretty unfair to ask them to do that for you. Regardless of all of those things, you can never force someone else to address a problem. They have to be aware of it and want change for themselves before anything can truly become better, and sometimes you just have to go through 5 or 6 or more breakups for that message to finally get through to you.

I wasn't talking about how I feel about my marriage or something, I'm talking about how I have felt in the past when evaluating a relationship to determine if I was going to break up with someone or not. This is a breakup thread, not a marriage discussion thread. I don't entirely understand why you viewed it in that manner.

I don't think we're ever going to agree on this, so I don't really see a point to continuing. You seem to subscribe to the notion that people can be "fixed" if you just try hard enough. I don't believe that, and I thought that the following lines in my first post would have conveyed this belief clearly:

Personally, I don't try to change other people. That never, ever works. People only change when they feel they're ready, and you can't force that to happen with any amount of words.

The only person who can decide to work on them is them, so I leave them to it.

Note: I said the only person who can make that decision to work toward being a better person is themselves. That is not the same as leaving someone to their own devices after they come to you for help.

If they want to work their problems out, that's all on them to analyze and decide. I don't get involved in other peoples' soul searching unless it's directly asked of me, because most people really do not want (or care about) your honest opinion -- especially in the moment when you are in the process of splitting up.

They have to do their own self analysis to figure out what it is that a) is not working for them and b) they are actually capable of changing. I can't dictate that to anyone. It's all fine and good to figure out that you're a hyper jealous person, but if that's so much a part of your personality that it's an instinct, the chances of them realistically curbing that an appropriate amount are relatively small. If they decide that they're ready for something to be different and they let me know that, then I can do my best to be a part. Nobody can do any better than that.

Sometimes you'll have to dictate an aspect of their lives to better the relationship. It happens, and it's sometimes a necessity.

This is a very tedious line to walk in my opinion. I'm not talking about assigning household chores; I'm talking about trying to control someone else's behavior. I have never seen a case where Spouse A exerts some kind of control over Spouse B and one or the other or both doesn't come out feeling unhappy and resentful about it.

[Tyche]

The problem I have with that "really important part" is that a lot of times...probably a majority of the time...people don't know what they are doing wrong until it's brought to their attention. You just seem to take a much much more passive approach to relationships whereas I like to be very proactive. You make it sound like it's a damn intervention where you force people to change. That's not it at all. People have to know what's wrong in order to start the process, and you're there to provide support and guidance.

[SwampdonkeyPLD]

Should have gotten married sooner, 7 years of dating is called Scared as shit to commitment.

Meh,1 year was in high school, 2 were long distance, and then I was like just let me finish college first. To me it was like if were meant to be whats the difference b/w being married for 60 years or 64?

[Day]

Not to derail the Tyche/Ivve discussion because I do find the 2 points of view intersesting, I keep going back and forth on who I agree with... but anyways... I'd be interested in knowing the age of everyone that said they want "total honesty" in a relationship, cause 100% total honesty is not only not going to happen, but trust me you don't want that to happen. It's right there with picking your battles and learning to let things go.

It sounds really good on paper until you try to put it into practice and have 20 disagreements a day.

[Tyche]

It's hard to say. Ignoring the "big shit" (the stuff that Ivve and I have been going back and fourth on, whereas I'm obviously all for honesty), I think you should be honest, but don't go out of your way to be a dick. I'm brutally honest with my wife, but at the same time, I try to keep sort of a "don't ask, don't tell" aspect to the small shit that would stir up small quarrels. Example to illustrate...If my wife asks me how she looks in a dress, and she doesn't look good, I'll tell her. If she doesn't ask me, I'm not going to barge in with the opinion that it looks like shit. You don't have to lie, but you don't have to be an ass about it either. I'm not going to say that it's OK to lie about the small shit, but sometimes you have to take steps to just steer clear of arguments. Totally agree with Day where it goes hand in hand with picking your battles.

[Ivve]

The problem I have with that "really important part" is that a lot of times...probably a majority of the time...people don't know what they are doing wrong until it's brought to their attention. You just seem to take a much much more passive approach to relationships whereas I like to be very proactive. You make it sound like it's a damn intervention where you force people to change. That's not it at all. People have to know what's wrong in order to start the process, and you're there to provide support and guidance.

If the problem is so big that it's causing the relationship to end, then yes, it is an intervention of sorts. It's a "hey our problems are so out of control that I cannot even be around you anymore." It's a get right or get out moment, and if that person isn't willing to acknowledge that they may have had a hand in the deterioration of your coupleness, then it's time to go. I don't believe in hanging onto oblivious people. There has got to be some amount of self-awareness and personal responsibility for your own behavior. I should not have to tell you to lower your voice every time we have a fight; you should be an adult who recognizes "oh shit I am now screaming because I'm upset." I should not have to tell you to stop overspending the budget because you should have the presence of mind and consideration to stop and say to yourself "wow, why am I spending this money on myself or this arbitrary purchase when my partner is sacrificing to keep our finances straight?" Having to constantly correct or manage someone's stupid/disrespectful/fight-causing behaviors because they just truly have no sense of how their actions affect others is the ultimate dealbreaker for me.

Also, there are a lot of habits and personality traits that are personally super annoying to me, but I don't have the illusion that an aspect of who they are needs to change to fit my preferences. Just because it's a problem between us doesn't mean it will be a problem between them and everyone else they might get together with, and sometimes it's just best to allow people to be themselves and find another person that can share those things with them.

Again, this is all in the context of ending relationships, not maintaining a happy marriage although these same things can apply there, too. I believe that there is definitely a point where you have to acknowledge that no matter how much you want it to work out, sometimes it just will not. Sometimes people are just not compatible no matter how much love there is between them. After a number of bad relationships early in my life based on the terrible relationship model of my parents, I feel pretty confident saying that knowing when to get out is equally as important as knowing what you can try to solve together.

P.S. I'm not saying I'm against honesty or something, just against the notion that I'm always right when it comes to telling someone else they've got problems.

[Silviya]

Not to derail the Tyche/Ivve discussion because I do find the 2 points of view intersesting, I keep going back and forth on who I agree with... but anyways... I'd be interested in knowing the age of everyone that said they want "total honesty" in a relationship, cause 100% total honesty is not only not going to happen, but trust me you don't want that to happen. It's right there with picking your battles and learning to let things go.

It sounds really good on paper until you try to put it into practice and have 20 disagreements a day.

Despite my name on these boards, I'm actually male in my early twenties. While admittedly I'm not 100% honest, I do make a very active effort not to lie. Depending on weather or not you view sarcastic comments as lies or not (I don't) then I would say I'm at least in the 98 percentile. A lot of people tell me I am the most honest person they know.

People who know this or find out about it sometimes try to use this to their advantage or for their entertainment. For example, my friends really seem to like to tell random women at the bars that I am totally honest. They get them to come over and ask me dumb questions. I refuse to lie to them, but that doesn't mean I have to answer them either.

As for relationships; again I have to agree with most everything Tyche said with regards to picking your battles and being brutally honest without being a dick. My girlfriend knows that I won't lie to her, but she also knows that I won't always answer her questions then either. She used to make accusations or ask questions and if I refused to answer she would just jump to whatever conclusion a denial would normally point to. However, I'd occasionally refuse to answer questions that I would be perfectly fine with answering. She'd jump to the negative conclusion. Later through some other source she'll find out that her assumption was totally wrong. This was back when we first started seeing each other and I wanted to keep some things underwraps till we had gotten to know each other better. Now I'll answer pretty much anything she wants to know, and her vis versa.

I'm not going to say that I don't try to manipulate people, because I do. I just do it in a way that doesn't involve lying. Learning how to answer (or avoid) questions without lying isn't that hard. Often an response in the form of another question is enough. A certain body language, tone of voice, and a simple "Really?" can be used quite effectively. Is it deceiving yea, but dishonest? I don't believe so. I won't lie directly to anyone, but if I do or say something (a truth, or part of the truth) that leads them to jump to a conclusion that may or may not be true, well I can't be held accountable for their assumptions.

[Denchi]

Do we have the same girl?

Ha! I hope not, it's a shitty situation. Is she Asian and going to grad school in St Louis in the fall? Maybe we've identified the problem.

[Ivve]

Why not just directly tell her you'd rather not answer a particular question until you know each other better? It doesn't seem like being odd/manipulative is really necessary or beneficial there when the truth about your feelings on the situation would serve just as well.

[Ace-o-fire]

so i got a bj today for like 20 minutes and i couldnt cum? any problems with me? she was all go nothing away from her norm