Campaign Gets Reinforcements! (06/15/2009)

[arus2001]

Actually self-centered morons taking mobs off to stroke their e-peens away from prying eyes campaign ~are~ still a common occurrence. Demanding that some widescan job be available to sniff them out is ridiculous.

A more fitting solution: Once out of sight range of the battle, player looses tags yet retains aggro. All buffs removed (including Reraise), and /blockaid status enacted.

I still have seven jobs left to take from 50-54 before they can start feeding off the ToAU XP teat. If it were not for campaigning while LFG my evenings would be filled with a lot more web browsing. With the 8-9k TNLs of the low 50s, the 500-1k XP I get actually allows for some progress - and does not hose over the net results for anyone else. Pulling mobs over to a batch of level 75s and aggroing bosses away from corpses (only to predictably die) is more productive and definitely more enjoyable than standing idle with my flag up in Jeuno - I spent enough time doing that leveling MNK back in '04-'05.

It is the same folks (at lest when I am typically out in the field) who grab mobs to solo that are the first ones to teleport out once there is nothing left except the bosses. It is everyone's best interest to wipe every one of the enemy out ASAP and move on to the next wave/zone.

Having 10-15 people waiting for things to end due to one 'tard to finish or have the number of PCs drop down from 15 to 4 just when a quick Zerg can finish the fight is lame.

FFXI itself is not a single player game. Campaign is not a single player event. If you really need to be alone to show yourself how awesome you are - go play a console.

So, people lagging has no merit? Do you really think you're the hero just running around and dying, wasting the MP of mages who could spend it on someone else who could actually contribute? That 500-1000 EXP you covet can be easily eclipsed by a single FoV in West Altepa just by killing a few EP spiders and anticans all the way up to that EXP teat you mentioned.

I'm not saying drag-offs never happen, but fuck if I'll have some idiot run a pack toward me, I try to evade, only to run out of this mystery radius and have my ass handed to me for lost EXP. That's about as rich as people thinking SE should've just locked Campaign out from people under 61 in response to /BRD.

And let's not confuse epeen with efficiency. I don't care if it's 3000 EXP or 5000 EXP when the battle ends. What I don't want is to be zone hopping every 5 minutes with the 3-5 minutes of non-fighting in-between because pulling away from NPCs is no longer an option. Does it suck zoning in to a fight that ends instantly? Yes. Would it continue to happen even with these "fixes"? Yes. Is there something you can do if it feels like you're standing around with your thumb up your butt? Yes. SE's response to the indefinite dragging issue was unit deployment having a 1 hour timer. Love it or hate it, there are far more pressing issues in Campaign that can't be solved with exercising a bit of common sense.

[Riki]

I like the idea of mobs fleeing back to the fort when the leave a certain radius.
Just make that radius large enough and it will still give enough room to fight mobs without NPCs and lag.
I don't mind people soloing mobs a bit off from the forts. I just hate people dragging "their" mobs to the other end of the map and hide them there.

[Thoreau]

So, people lagging has no merit? Do you really think you're the hero just running around and dying, wasting the MP of mages who could spend it on someone else who could actually contribute? That 500-1000 EXP you covet can be easily eclipsed by a single FoV in West Altepa just by killing a few EP spiders and anticans all the way up to that EXP teat you mentioned.

The MP sponge point does have some validity, unless said healers are using cures to gain (the unfortunately gimped) XP. In my case, this is actually offset by the 75WHM 2box that I bring along. I usually use my alt to Auto-attack, debuff, pass out Raises, and cure bomb the melee who are actually doing the real damage. This nabs him a few K Limit Points (was surprised when he hit 3.1k in a double-wave last night). Fortunately, it does not take most people long to notice that both chars are the same person and I will get the occasional /tell on my main for a Cure or Raise.

And believe me, Campaign is not a sole source of XP. After a few hours of monotonous EP-DC mob slaughter or re-capping skills solo, a change of pace can be enjoyable.

[Ryphen]

I don't think anyone is suggesting making this "return to fort" radius very small. Being able to spread out some in a battle is actually a good thing. Not only to avoid lag if there happens to be a ton of NPCs around, but also to avoid being bombarded with AoEs. I don't know about you, but getting hit with seven Sweeps and five -ga III spells repeatedly isn't my idea of a good time.

You could make it double the distance the Belfries are set up from the forts and still be able to accommodate everyone. Plenty of room to spread out, and if someone is all alone beating on the last mob in the wave, you don't have to spend 20 mins canvassing the zone to find him if widescan isn't available.

[TummieGaruda]

Actually self-centered morons taking mobs off to stroke their e-peens away from prying eyes campaign ~are~ still a common occurrence. Demanding that some widescan job be available to sniff them out is ridiculous.

A more fitting solution: Once out of sight range of the battle, player looses tags yet retains aggro. All buffs removed (including Reraise), and /blockaid status enacted.

The problem is not that they want to stroke their e-peens. It is because people lack the common sense to just die when they get agro from the NM(s). Instead, they run around and end up starting an MPK chain where the NM kills the initial person, then agro'd someone else who tries to run away and kills them, who then agro's someone else and it goes on and on. This is part of the reason why people drag mobs out of sight...to avoid getting MPK'd. Of course the other reason is to get full exp caps, which becomes annoying because I often see a lot of players who are soloing a mob and if you go in and fight the mob, they turn around, wait for you to get hate and then they run off and fight something else. Usually in that situation against yags, THF with Hide is a good way to say F U too, cause then the yagudo will go right after the other person, but to each his/her own.

To fix the MPK issue, SE can make it so that when a mob agros someone and kills them, they ignore all other players for a short period of time before agroing anyone else. Also instead of your idea of creating making tags wear if players get too far, create a situation where the further away from the fortification the mob is, the stronger it is, or have some sort of mini rage timer that starts when the mob is taking sustained damage over a period of time. Also, having the mobs run back to the fort if you pull them too far is a great idea as well.

[BRP]

The fort should just tell you every 2-3 minutes what directions the monsters are currently in. In the middle of the battle, it will probably be all directions, but towards the end, it will allow to locate run-offs. Or anything just as or less drastic.

EDIT: Also, sup Square Enix Community

[Cog]

since most campaign mobs are vulnerable to enfeebling magic such as sleepga, the most effective strategy will be a dynamis-type one, where one person calls /assist (a tank) on the NM(s) and someone else sleepga's the minions. this already works great but in general people doing campaign are not focusing on larger strategy or helping each other get points.

also i think there might be more application for this 'union' function than merely being part of a campaign battle...
OP="Building upon the existing parties and alliances, the new version update will allow players to form larger battle regiments known as "Unions.""

plz can i has more players engaged on a monster than 18 kthx!~

[Plow]

I often see a lot of players who are soloing a mob and if you go in and fight the mob, they turn around, wait for you to get hate and then they run off and fight something else. Usually in that situation against yags, THF with Hide is a good way to say F U too, cause then the yagudo will go right after the other person, but to each his/her own.

Why the hell would a thief be scared of tanking in Campaign? I can tank at least 2 mobs at a time as nin/dnc without ever needing shadows, if I have to I can handle at least like 4 mobs at once during nighttime, thf should never have a problem.

Did it not occur to you that maybe that person wants to actually *win* the campaign, not have someone afk beating on his mob when they could be soloing another one with no problem at all?

[Lilkerm]

watch there be new super weapons... relic mythic and BITCHIN

[Gergall]

Why the hell would a thief be scared of tanking in Campaign? I can tank at least 2 mobs at a time as nin/dnc without ever needing shadows, if I have to I can handle at least like 4 mobs at once during nighttime, thf should never have a problem.

Did it not occur to you that maybe that person wants to actually *win* the campaign, not have someone afk beating on his mob when they could be soloing another one with no problem at all?

If you really want to win campaign, you would have everyone gank the same mob down from 100% to 0 in a few seconds and move on to the next one. Isn't this why dynamis is handled that way instead of each party fighting its own monster?

Soloing a mob is the exact opposite of that strategy..

[Yugl]

Unless you plan on tanking mobs, don't bother arguing against soloers. I can list problems with people that don't solo.

They crowd one mob and make it laggy for the Tank
They raise AFTER the Campaign is said and done
They don't heal or they toss one cure then afk
They never want to tank, just let others deal with keeping themselves up
They feed the mob TP with their loldaggers
If you invite them, they reject because they're looking for a PT, yet at the same time bitch about how soloers are not team players
They bitch about other people are selfish then make excuses for their own selfishness

[Ryphen]

If you really want to win campaign, you would have everyone gank the same mob down from 100% to 0 in a few seconds and move on to the next one. Isn't this why dynamis is handled that way instead of each party fighting its own monster?

Soloing a mob is the exact opposite of that strategy..

I think the reason this isn't always the best strategy if you want to actually win the battle is because while everyone is ripping apart the one mob, the other 9 are happily whacking away at the fortifications. Once they do enough damage, they tend to warp out, cackling happily to themselves. If you don't have a large enough group to steamroll all the mobs individually in a very short period of time, you're still going to lose.

The best thing to do would probably have one person start soloing each mob to keep them off the fort, then have a larger group go around to assist in killing each one.

Of course, the NMs would have to be handled a little differently.

[TummieGaruda]

Why the hell would a thief be scared of tanking in Campaign? I can tank at least 2 mobs at a time as nin/dnc without ever needing shadows, if I have to I can handle at least like 4 mobs at once during nighttime, thf should never have a problem.

Did it not occur to you that maybe that person wants to actually *win* the campaign, not have someone afk beating on his mob when they could be soloing another one with no problem at all?

No the point is that you have Player A who is fighting a mob, and you have player B who is a 65 THF who joins in and fights the same mob and is contributing damage. Player A decides to be an ass, turns and lets Player B get hate, and then runs off to find another mob to solo. As retaliation, most people usually say F U and Flee + Hide so that the mob loses agro and goes after the other person.

The point is, there are individuals that do not want to work together and there is this me first, me only mentality and they do not want to share duties.

[ronin sparthos]

Id like to see more incentive for raiding strongholds. For many smaller servers, the population is just not there to be attacking these zones when half the players don't really understand the concept. It doesn't help either when the CPU sends one unit to attack the 5 or 6 units deployed with Mantelets within the stronghold.

Zones like Beadeaux (S) are dangerous and demand alot from the player, especially when you take into account the whole idea that JP must back the raids in order to gain enough influence to change the zones control by the tally. I know the BCNMs are the "incentive" that SE has given but something more worldwide would be a better mode of enticing people to spend hours on end inside a stronghold.

About dragging mobs far from the fort... you should simply get an ANNM-style warning when you roam too far away from the fort and failure to act results in Allied Tags being taken down and the monster running back within the engagement zone. You'd only have to do this for a few zones though as areas like The Eldieme Necropolis would not really need something like this given the native agro and the layout of the area.

[frodnonnag]

give everyone with a campaign tag widescan, and have recon level effect how wide the scanzone is.

[ronin sparthos]

give everyone with a campaign tag widescan, and have recon level effect how wide the scanzone is.

You'd have to limit it to scanning for campaign related monsters only but I guess that's a good idea.

[fantasticdan]

No the point is that you have Player A who is fighting a mob, and you have player B who is a 65 THF who joins in and fights the same mob and is contributing damage. Player A decides to be an ass, turns and lets Player B get hate, and then runs off to find another mob to solo. As retaliation, most people usually say F U and Flee + Hide so that the mob loses agro and goes after the other person.

The point is, there are individuals that do not want to work together and there is this me first, me only mentality and they do not want to share duties.

In your example, player B has no positive impact on player A, only negative in feeding the mob TP. That's not working together, that's just one player leeching off another.

And a level 65 thf can tank normal campaign mobs just fine.

[Rocl]

You should be able to recruit a Freelance with a pair of Binoculars who stands on top of the fort and calls out Enemy Positions. He should also be a traitorous Orc for added hilarity.

Speaking of Freelances, I wonder if this will be the update we can steal Beastmen Freelances? The dialogue and NPCs already exist in the DATs to scam away Kaiser Behemoth, Eurytos, Boodlix, and Raigegue!

[Plow]

No the point is that you have Player A who is fighting a mob, and you have player B who is a 65 THF who joins in and fights the same mob and is contributing damage. Player A decides to be an ass, turns and lets Player B get hate, and then runs off to find another mob to solo. As retaliation, most people usually say F U and Flee + Hide so that the mob loses agro and goes after the other person.

The point is, there are individuals that do not want to work together and there is this me first, me only mentality and they do not want to share duties.

Ryphen summed it up in the post right above you, point is it's retarded to have a bunch of people hitting one mob while the rest of the mobs tear up the fort so that nobody gets capped exp and you lose the campaign to boot.

[Guppy]

It doesnt help that the 3+ member Campaign OPs are:

A. Boring
B. Could be duoed if SE didnt shoehorn people into 3+ members.
C. Boring

The third tiers of Brave Dawn and Pit Spider can be pretty difficult and intense, actually. Unfortunately, I've seen that level open up only a handful of times ever, so the first tier is where most people get their impressions of what they are like.

And while they're almost always 5 star, the reward from a Tier-I five star isn't that special compared to the Tier III or IV single-person Ops that are always available, even when their rewards have dropped from being completely spammed.