Magic Accuracy effect charm?

[arshesney]

You can try with mobs that have a low charm rate like the slimes in Caedarva Mire or the raptors in Uleguerand Range, with slimes being much better since staff or no staff makes a huge difference in succes rate.

[Spekkio]

i think slimes have resist charm trait which just gives them a roll to 100% resist regardless of stats. that wouldn't be a very indicative test i would think. mobs with relatively high chr pushing your dchr (i wonder if that's the first time that term has ever been used...) lower and slashing your success rate.

[Nattack]

100% resist? suddenly slimes are uncharmable? o.o

the resist charm trait is alot stronger than it is to other resist traits, id say it lowers slimes charm rate with staff down to about 50~60 eyeballing, but im not going out risking myself charming slimes.

It may also just be a value in the mob, resist charm by some amount (because when its EM to EM, its never easy to charm a slime at any level, but when its EM to EM, its somewhat easier to charm a mandragora at low level. again, just by look and feel)

[Spekkio]

100% resist? suddenly slimes are uncharmable? o.o

the resist charm trait is alot stronger than it is to other resist traits, id say it lowers slimes charm rate with staff down to about 50~60 eyeballing, but im not going out risking myself charming slimes.

It may also just be a value in the mob, resist charm by some amount (because when its EM to EM, its never easy to charm a slime at any level, but when its EM to EM, its somewhat easier to charm a mandragora at low level. again, just by look and feel)

a ROLL to resist 100%.

eg they do a 1/n roll and if they win that roll they get an automatic resist against the effect on that trial. if they fail that roll, they roll to resist normally. that's the assumption i make based both on the misbehavior of pld mobs who have a chance to roll the "Resist! the (mobname) resists the effects of the spell!" as opposed to the generic "the (mobname) resists the effects of the spell!" line that all mobs have as well as the effect of my brd randomly resisting deafening tantara (brd gets resist silence, pld resist sleep obviously. damn that resist sleep trait...)

the reason i bring it up is that on 1/n trials, you don't even roll to resist, you would just get an outright resist if my understanding of the resist XXXXX traits is correct. moreover you wouldn't be able to determine which resists are generated from a successful roll against the resist charm trait as opposed to just rolling bad on your normal charm attempt. i know i'm not conveying my point very well, maybe someone who's better at communication will understand and be able to phrase it in a way that isn't as confusing.

[Seraph]

a ROLL to resist 100%.

"They've done studies, you know. 60% of the time it works, every time."

Saying something more like 'a certain % chance to automatically completely resist' would have been far easier to understand.

[Nattack]

im not sure im getting it, you cant half resist a charm (in the context of a pc charming an npc) like a regular spell can. charm isnt a regular spell, after all. and duration is only affected by level difference and charm+ gear.

it sounds like you're implying there are multiple checks against a charm with the resist charm effect (but we have no way of checking this, because there is no message that would give the resist message except for npc>pc charms)

[Gunslinger]

He's saying it works like this:

% chance to charm:

0>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>100

But, before that takes place, something like this happens:

If randomNumber > X Then
Chance to charm = 0%
Else
Chance to charm = (gear, merits, stats, etc)
End If

Therefor independent of how good your gear is, you will always fail based on that random number. Statistically it's a % chance to resist, but programatically it is different. I don't know how I feel about it frankly, but it's an interesting thought.

[Spekkio]

right. there's already a template for resist XXXX abilities in the game for resist silence, resist sleep, resist petrify, lolresistvirus, etc, so there's no reason to assume that they wouldn't repeat it for resist charm.

there seem to be two different kinds of resists in the game for spells, one set triggered by the resist XXXXX job traits, one set by insufficient macc (not counting stuff like magic barrier). one of these methods of resisting can be reduced or nearly eliminated by increasing your macc and the other can not. the upshot of this is that when charming something with no resist charm and very low chr you will almost always succeed outside of the random 5% or so chance of failing that you always have (it's rare but not unheard of for a 75 bst to whiff a charm on a forest hare). meanwhile, a mob that has resist charm, assuming it behaves like it does for other resist traits, effectively has a much higher minimum chance to resist.

for example with slimes it might be (and i'm making up numbers to illustrate here) an 80% chance is the best you can accomplish with piles and piles of chr while in contrast to the 95% chance you would get on a similar mob at that level. does that make better sense what i'm trying to say?

you do make a good point that i made a blunder. since charm is somewhat of a horse of a different color in that unlike normal debuffs there's no partial resist, no charm spell, etc. we can't just make the assumption that resist charm is implemented the same way as say resist sleep. since we can't definitively say either way though, it's best to err on the side of caution and assume the worst case so as not to pollute our tests.

[Nattack]

there is a charm spell though, that sits with virelai. i dont know how the message is, but if it were tested upon slimes, tigers, and mandragora (mandies get more and more resist at 65, and would probably be best to test)

but another thing is, it may not be resist charm at all, but it may also be akin to a damage modifier. which is what I think slimes and tigers have. but not mandragoras.

as i may have said but really thought! its always hard to charm slimes and tigers at EM, but mandies get progressively harder.

[Valyana]

Slime/Hecteyes charm resistance shows up in Gauge, so I don't think it's a separate resist roll.

[Spekkio]

Slime/Hecteyes charm resistance shows up in Gauge, so I don't think it's a separate resist roll.

hmmmmm... then maybe i'm wrong. wouldn't be the first time. this seems easy to test. just go find the crappiest slime around and tackle it in full charm gear and see how bad the resists get. if they're slim to none, slimes would work well and i'll go hide in a corner in shame. YAY! time to learn new things! an interesting point to make would be too that we don't even know if these mobs actually have a "resist charm" trait but rather that it's inferred from experience. it's entirely possible slime chr is just exceptionally high which would account for the horrid charm rates too, no?

[Deimos]

If anyone wants to test, the lowest-level slime in the game is the Giant Amoeba in Zeruhn Mines, in the room at J-10. You may have to kill some Tunnel Worms to get it to pop, it shares a spawn with them for some reason.

[Spekkio]

actually it occurred to me i should probably opt for something mid level in case they don't get resist charm until a few lvls up, much like many mobs don't get their full properties at lower lvls (IE double attack.)

[apoptygma]

I'm a bit late coming on the subject. But I didn't see this pointed out anywhere on this thread.
I personally am sporting Apollo's Staff & Ixion Cloak on my Bard and couldn't be happier.
I can't remember the last time Lullaby missed in meripo.

Magic Accuracy denotes the likelihood of a spell casting on a target not getting Resisted. Similar to a physical attack, status effect magic attacks can miss and result in a full resist of the spell. Elemental magic attacks are different as the target would still take damage but the damage dealt will be, at highest level of resistance, substantially smaller than normal. See the Resistance page for more information.

Raising Magic Accuracy directly increases the chance of a spell will land on the target without resist. However, the potency of the spell (e.g. the potency of paralyze or duration of another status effect spell) is not affected by simply raising Magic Accuracy. Attributes such as INT and MND raise the potency of their corresponding spells. It has been proven that one point of skill in the appropriate magic skill (e.g. Elemental Magic, Enfeebling Magic, ...) corresponds to one point of Magic Accuracy, and not .9.

The Tests done by Lodeguy Original Japanese page English version show that 1 magic accuracy = 0.5% magic hit rate below 50% hit rate, 1.0% increase after 50% magic hit rate.

it also shows 1 skill = 1 magic accuracy and for stats such as INT = 1 magic accuracy until total int is >targetINT+10. Each additional point of INT after that gives 0.5 magic accuracy. It is assumed the same goes for MND vs TargetMND and CHR vs TargetCHR.

Meaning, when casting on Monsters in the most situations (excluding some HNMs): 1 Skill = 1 Magic accuracy = 2 Spell Stat (INT, MND, CHR) = 1% hit rate

Considering the amount of repeated casts to produce this data it is very likely correct.

ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Magic_Accuracy

This was tested by a JP player, with the focus on Ma.Acc mainly on Elemental Skill.
No direct connection with *Charm* was mentioned, however the test concludes +MAC does effect CHR.
A link to the test figures are posted on the wiki page.

[stewie]

Pretty sure that's there for BRD songs.

[Deimos]

I can't remember the last time Lullaby missed in meripo.

I guess you don't merit on Greater Colibri then, because I fail fairly often on them due to their natural magic resistance. Regardless, it's not relevant to this topic, bard songs aren't the same thing as Charm, even if both use CHR.

[Clave]

Pretty sure that's there for BRD songs.

^

The testing applies to Bard songs only.

[Shinryuu]

I guess you don't merit on Greater Colibri then, because I fail fairly often on them due to their natural magic resistance. Regardless, it's not relevant to this topic, bard songs aren't the same thing as Charm, even if both use CHR.

IIRC there's no such thing as 'natural magical resistance'; birds are strong to wind spells but that's about it; other mobs can be affiliated with other elements of course. Mobs can have innate MDT or MDB but that's not even the case for birds. Lastly, some mobs build resistance to spells but that's a moot point for bird merits. Plain immunity (to for instance Stun, for Jailers) is NM-only.

Do you have an apollo's staff?

[Deimos]

Do you have an apollo's staff?

Yes, my BRD gear is quite good. Meriting at MMJ Staging Point I practically never see a resist for either Elegy or Lullaby (except Stablers when Resist Slow kicks in), whereas on Colibri the resist rates are relatively high. I don't have any statistics about it or anything, but I'd imagine it's not unique to me, any BRD that merits there a lot can probably attest that they resist both Elegy and Lullaby a lot more often than a typical merit mob. Of course, those people probably aren't reading a thread about Charm, and it's offtopic anyway, so if you're really curious about this you should probably put it in the Random Question thread or start a new one for this purpose.

[Spekkio]

IIRC there's no such thing as 'natural magical resistance'; birds are strong to wind spells but that's about it; other mobs can be affiliated with other elements of course. Mobs can have innate MDT or MDB but that's not even the case for birds. Lastly, some mobs build resistance to spells but that's a moot point for bird merits. Plain immunity (to for instance Stun, for Jailers) is NM-only.

Do you have an apollo's staff?

kirin is highly resistant to silence but it can be stuck for a short duration randomly, even despite possessing a strong earth affinity. my guess is they just have a high enough chr that your roll against them failed. i was struggling too hitting them till i borrowed an osode to swap out my minstrel's coat (before i got af+1 body or shadow coat. wuv my shadow coat. ^^) and my resists dropped off precipitously. meanwhile you can have all the mnd, enfeebling magic, macc, etc in the world and kirin's still gonna tell you to take a hike on silence. there are plenty of examples of mobs that have a natural resistance to one thing or another though you can dumb luck into hitting it, but i don't think colibri have any such trait. it's just a matter of overwhelming their stats to get a good shot against their resist roll.

edit: i'm basing my above statement on the fact that a relic brd w/ merits and top notch gear is remarkably consistent on sleeping the birds while a crappy brd is extremely spotty. meanwhile, a mob with a natural resistance like kirin just snubs everyone from a brd/whm to a rdm the same way.