Tinnin Lowman

[Dimmauk]

Couple points that were overlooked:

1. It has drastically higher regen with heads broken, the 40 minute attempt just mentioned only took so long because the war kept breaking them with RR. With only one head, it would outregen the war+sam(1 brd only)'s damage.. with 2, it would be a stalemate, with 3 we made progress. It does not take more damage, but this doesn't make it unzergable by any standards.. just negates 1-2 DD.

2. It cannot use nerve gas until it has 3 heads, good to know for zerg :X

3. Trembling will fuck your shit up if you give it too much tp.

Crap I meant Trembling the whole time. Barofield isnt as bad as Trembling.

[Dimmauk]

I'm pet burning this with my ls soon. I think it'll work great with like 7 SMNs some BSTs and refreshers for the SMNs, any detail about Tinnin that would kinda prevent this from being an option? Haven't found a problem so far so i think it should work great.

That would be a fun fight since you could use Physical attacks and magic attacks during the shields.

[Gunitsoldier]

Yeah my thoughts exactly. So it doesn't have a random hate reset move that would rape us?

[Thorny]

Trembling will possibly kill all of your pets at once(especially if during mighty strikes). It's worth a shot I guess, he's not particularly hard.

[Neosutra]

His AoE isnt bad with dedicated healers for each party. As for his regen, its never really been a problem. We usually go all out when it is down to 1 head to get as much damage in before it has access to harder moves, makes the fight MUCH faster.

As for ideal setup for fast kills, I would say:

2 parties of War, Sam, melee3(war or sam), whm, brd, rdm

1 party of blms and support for blms (cor or sch or such).

Start fight with tp share and bard rotations. Pop -> go all out (save 2 hours if you have more) -> you will have it about 20-30% before all heads are really back and it has access to physical shield. Use blms to supliment during physical shield, and be fast on cursna and cures.

With optimal setup, I dont see this fight lasting more than 2-3 minutes each time.

[Kaylia]

lv5 whm, lv75 blm, lv 75 whm.

whm lv5 cast dia to prevent regen
blm zombie nuke to speed thing up
and the whm r3 people to make the whole fight doable.

There we go, 3 men tinnin!

[Gunitsoldier]

Trembling will possibly kill all of your pets at once(especially if during mighty strikes). It's worth a shot I guess, he's not particularly hard.

Pets can be resummoned really quick and you'd be surprised what kind of stuff they survive normal players die to ^^

[Thorny]

lv5 whm, lv75 blm, lv 75 whm.

whm lv5 cast dia to prevent regen
blm zombie nuke to speed thing up
and the whm r3 people to make the whole fight doable.

There we go, 3 men tinnin!

It has 20/click regen with 3 heads, even with bio up one zombie BLM isn't outparsing shit. Protip: you get double weakened after 2 deaths.

[Thunder]

Does tinnin or any of the T4 znm resist souleater like einherjar bosses? Or.. is it immune to SE?

[Thorny]

I'm fairly sure they all do, but I could be wrong.

[Killkenny]

Only fought it a couple of times and we used traditional tank party plus 2 sam and a few blms.

I was the sam and was just WSing it for first 5mins but then realised he is not very threatening and ended up tanking it from 75% as sam/war without any problems (1 pld moved out of range incase something went wrong).

Trembling could potentially cause a big problem but if we do it again I would come sam/nin or war/nin to minimise chance of a full, MS'd one getting through. His other AoEs really aren't an issue if your mages are fast to cursna and cure when he does his 3 tp moves.

[Uris]

Well.. not going with SAMs for SCs was bad.

We did win Tinnin but it was messy and could be improved upon (40-60min kills)

It was smooth but slow at the beginning but once the BLMs start hitting hate cap, it got messy with Draw-Ins and TP attacks.

Goes like Thunder IV -> Bulwark -> Draw In -> Nerve Gas -> Tremblinb/Barofield/Breaths.

Resulted in a number of deaths due to that.

PLDs do really shitty damage on it too. And we need to force the BLMs to come in ele skill/macc gear next time. Apparently, "Unlike the normal Hydra, black magic works very well against this, and is highly recommended. " from other wiki should state "Black magic in magic burst work very well with full macc gear or in Magic Bursts"

Definitely bringing a SAM or 2 for SCs next Tinnin. And dropping 1 PLD. WHM and RDMs got hate at the 30-40min mark too (presumably hate cap). Doesn't help that Atonement doesn't does shit to assist in CE gain.

Is there any way 2 co-tanks can avoid taking nerve gas together? Just wanted to see if positioning can be improved on (then having 2 DD type tanks might be so much better)

[Dimmauk]

Does tinnin or any of the T4 znm resist souleater like einherjar bosses? Or.. is it immune to SE?

When I tanked Tinnin my tank partner was a NIN/DRK, and he did a good job with hate.

[OctavoGilgamesh]

Pets can be resummoned really quick and you'd be surprised what kind of stuff they survive normal players die to ^^

In the case of bst's, CC's have 3kish hp. That always helps in eating aoe's.

I'm kinda curious how the pet fight would go.

[Killkenny]

Well.. not going with SAMs for SCs was bad.

We did win Tinnin but it was messy and could be improved upon (40-60min kills)

It was smooth but slow at the beginning but once the BLMs start hitting hate cap, it got messy with Draw-Ins and TP attacks.

As was said earlier, its horribly ineffecient to use plds on this, they can't do decent numbers without atonement and if you are already 'lowman' then it makes no sense not to combine your main form of damage with tank when its easy to do so.

Blms nuking hard are going to pull hate regardless, if your tanks are good they will get it it back before he has a chance to break blink/stoneskin easily. The whole glass cannon approach to blm was addressed by Kaeko a long time ago, getting drawn in doesn't mean they're doing anything wrong, just surviving long enough for tank to get hate back.

[Miraun]

I'm pet burning this with my ls soon. I think it'll work great with like 7 SMNs some BSTs and refreshers for the SMNs, any detail about Tinnin that would kinda prevent this from being an option? Haven't found a problem so far so i think it should work great.

Damage output and MP pool... I'm in Neosutra's LS, and on those runs, I was typically the only SMN. Damage output on the Level 70 Physical BPs is decent, about 500 average, with crits once per battle to about 800. 4 Merits Magical pacts w/ Redingnote were doing 800 consistently, 1200 on a magic burst, rivaling and infuriating BLMs...

Tinnin's regen, and the need to do constant BPs to beat regen / deal damage is the issue with petting Tinning down. Pair this up with the long range (Approximatley 20) AoE distance on breath attacks, which can impact SMNs reassaulting, and then Nerve Gas Curse and poisoning your avatars (they die about 20 seconds later).

Physical/Magical shield will only influence the DoT... Preditor Claws and Wind Blade both pierced Physical/Magical Shield... much to the BLM's infuriation.

I ran out of MP after approximatley 10 minutes each fight. I utilize maximum - Perpetuation cost gear (less Nirvana... btw.. buying alexandrites on Phoenix server). Using a Magical BP every 46 seconds. I'm -3 SMN magic below cap, so was obtaining 320 minimum (iirc) mana from siphons. Was also /SCH for Sublimination. Had only a BRD in the pt for ballads, no RDM or COR.

Considering Tinnin's highish regen and AoEs, I would not consider this a safe NM to pet to death. It may go well at first, but I forsee problems balancing damage output and mana conservation.

[Uris]

As was said earlier, its horribly ineffecient to use plds on this, they can't do decent numbers without atonement and if you are already 'lowman' then it makes no sense not to combine your main form of damage with tank when its easy to do so.

Blms nuking hard are going to pull hate regardless, if your tanks are good they will get it it back before he has a chance to break blink/stoneskin easily. The whole glass cannon approach to blm was addressed by Kaeko a long time ago, getting drawn in doesn't mean they're doing anything wrong, just surviving long enough for tank to get hate back.

Yeah but PLD can't grab hate easily due to shitty sword damage and flash on a 22s recast at best. Doubt they cap CE too w/o atonement and taking the breath damage.

Learnt from these and will utilize better DD type tanks this time. Wonder if SMN is comparable damage wise?

[Killkenny]

You have shitty tanks then, even solo tanking ixion (far far more damaging to CE) a pld should be pushing CE cap most of the time. Its x3 tp move isn't threatening with fast mages and if you've only got blms damaging it, then it shouldn't be tping often enough to put a solo tank in trouble let alone 2.

Tinnin isn't offensively dangerous enough to warrant pld tanks because they cannot damage it as they can most things.

[Neosutra]

You have shitty tanks then, even solo tanking ixion (far far more damaging to CE) a pld should be pushing CE cap most of the time. Its x3 tp move isn't threatening with fast mages and if you've only got blms damaging it, then it shouldn't be tping often enough to put a solo tank in trouble let alone 2.

Tinnin isn't offensively dangerous enough to warrant pld tanks because they cannot damage it as they can most things.

Agreed. Get better plds. I may not be able to damage Tinnin, but that doesnt mean all my hate tools are gone. I can still reach the hate cap and stay there through most of the fight.

That isnt to say that the sam(s) and/or blm(s) wont be tanking as well occasionally, but a good pld should be able to get hate back pretty fast and keep Tinnin off the melee/blms for a majority of the fight.

As for next time, as I already stated, we will probably do a modified zerg for tinnins with 2 melee parties and one blm party, to bring the average time down to a few minutes. (Our average time with 3 blms, 1 sch, and 2 sams was ~10-11 minutes.

[nekura]

When I tanked Tinnin my tank partner was a NIN/DRK, and he did a good job with hate.

He was asking if it resisted Souleater damage. :<