American Sign Language

[Seraph]

That's not the case. Cochlear implants RARELY work. They have something like a 15% success rate even with the best possible candidates, and doctors perform them for only one reason - money. A cochlear implant costs in excess of 100k, PER ear.

And before you go on about being normal, hearing with a cochlear implant IS NOT normal hearing. It's completely different than how you or anyone else hears, and having a magnet with wires and whatnot sticking out of your skull is "normal?" Don't kid yourselves, you'll still be thinking of that person with a cochlear implant as disabled, regardless of how well he/she hears.

And that "holy fucking what?!" response I got a few posts back is exactly the response I wanted. I wanted to make you guys think about the other side of the coin, instead of being so closed minded and assume anyone who does not think or feel like you do must be an abomination. Take a class on Deaf Culture sometime at your local community college, and you'll see why.


@ the person who thinks deafness is a disability - I can't speak for others in the Deaf community, but I certainly don't consider myself disabled. I have my own business, live pretty well, and have a robust method of communication that allows me to express myself in ways YOU wouldn't think is possible. Technology is a wondeful thing. Just because someone isn't like you, doesn't mean they're disabled, you're just too blind to see past your own shortcomings.

I agree. Human hearing is an mutation, an abomination if you will, against the correct way of life. Grab some sharp pencils kids. It's time to fit in.

[Conrad]

And that "holy fucking what?!" response I got a few posts back is exactly the response I wanted. I wanted to make you guys think about the other side of the coin, instead of being so closed minded and assume anyone who does not think or feel like you do must be an abomination. Take a class on Deaf Culture sometime at your local community college, and you'll see why.

You totally missed the point of that post. While I can respect the desire to be a part of something, those with that mindset seem to belong to a subculture of almost cult-like proportions. Hearing isn't only an ability, it's a tool to make life easier and (in the case of music) more satisfying. I can understand it being a person's choice whether or not to have an implant, but if the power (or even desire, it seems) to hear makes them a pariah amongst their own friends then there is something seriously wrong within that community.

[Conrad]

Oh, as an afterthought:

One of the things that pisses me off to no end is when parents put cochlear implants into BABIES. That's not fair to the child, as he/she has no say in what happens to them and it simply cannot be undone. Perhaps if the child was somewhat older and capable of sentient thought - sure, let them make that decision for themselves, as they will be the ones to live with that thing for the rest of their lives.

I was circumcised against my will, but now I have one less thing to clean when I shower. You can't miss what you never had (or didn't have) to begin with.

[Zansho]

How is having the ability to hear make your life "easier?" I can do many of the things a hearing person can do (and in a lot of cases, better) and they can do things I can't. It doesn't diminish the quality of my life ONE bit. I can't miss what I've never experienced (music), much like you not really missing the foreskin from your penis.

I compensate for my hearing loss in other areas. I use my eyes a lot more, my sense of touch is definitely critical, and my other senses help compensate for my one missing sense. I don't dwell on my deafness, I embrace it because it has made me who I am today, and I wouldn't have it any other way. Technology today allows me to communicate (hello, videophone!!!) with others in my language, and I have sign language interpreters that go with me when I conduct business to be my communication outlet.

/shrugs. I just think cochlear implants are just a way for docs to pad their wallets and take advantage of parents who think they have their child's best interests at heart. Today's hearing aids (normal behind the ear ones) are just as powerful as cochlears and they're NOT permanent. I'd rather go that route than have some "BORG OMG" thing stuck in my skull that I can't take out when I want to.

[archibaldcrane]

@ the person who thinks deafness is a disability - I can't speak for others in the Deaf community, but I certainly don't consider myself disabled. I have my own business, live pretty well, and have a robust method of communication that allows me to express myself in ways YOU wouldn't think is possible. Technology is a wondeful thing. Just because someone isn't like you, doesn't mean they're disabled, you're just too blind to see past your own shortcomings.

Hearing is an ability. Guess what "not hearing" is?

Don't act like I don't know anything about the deaf community, you presumptuous twat. I dated a girl who was an ASL translator (interpreter? forget what the PC nomenclature is) for a while, and I worked on Extreme Makeover with a deaf client and his translator for months, communicated with him through his translator, picked up a sign or two, etc.

Being hearing, or having limited hearing via a cochlear implant doesn't mean that a person can't be part of the "deaf community". You know perfectly well that there are plenty of hearing people in the deaf community, that are fluent in ASL, that can "express themselves in ways that I wouldn't think possible" (fucking eyeroll). You are the most defensive, assuming the worst, ignorant example of the worst part of the deaf community. You assume that all hearing people think all deaf people are retarded, incapable of self expression or communication, and that anyone that wants to broaden their horizons by gaining limited hearing is shunning the deaf community and should be therefore shunned.

Also, quote references on your "15% success rate" nonsense, you know that's total bullshit.

How is having the ability to hear make your life "easier?" I can do many of the things a hearing person can do (and in a lot of cases, better) and they can do things I can't.

Way to answer your own fucking question.

You are garbage, and your closemindedness does a disservice to humanity. A fire hose couldn't clean all the sand out of your vagina.

[Zansho]

lol, Archibald. How does having a relationship with a ASL interpreter and working with ONE deaf person qualify you as an expert over someone who's been deaf all their life?

I thought so.

[Jodwahh]

I'm literally lost for words. I said holy fucking wow as in "holy fucking wow if people really do think that way about implants and compare them to maiming a baby when its born then I hope those people never have children".

[Conrad]

How do the parents not have their child's best interests in mind? Insurance does usually cover at least a portion of the costs for an implant, and some doctors do exist that want to help their patients and not just extort them for as much as possible. Fact is, the kid is going to realize at a young age that they're missing something that everyone else has, and that they were born different from everyone else. Why not give them that opportunity?

Hearing, other than sight, is the most important survival mechanism most mammals (and definitely humans) have. On a basic level, the ability to know something is coming by hearing it before you see it is what keeps us alive. For example, a truck without its headlights on at night would only have its horn to alert the deer in the road that it's about to become part of the windshield. Humans use hearing for similar protection, even though we've evolved to be able to have other methods of accomplishing the same task.

My main concern lies with the prejudice within the deaf community against those who want to be able to hear. You said yourself that any desire or attempt to get an implant or gain a sense of hearing are shunned because they are no longer like the rest of their friends. How is the ability to hear going to impede their ability to communicate with the rest of the hearing community, or for that matter make them any different? You have already expressed your own disdain for cochlear implants as a money-grab, so clearly there are varying degrees of hatred against the device. Deafness is, however, a disability in the most literal sense of the word, and implants were invented to remedy the problem.

[Davricle]

lol, Archibald. How does having a relationship with a ASL interpreter and working with ONE deaf person qualify you as an expert over someone who's been deaf all their life?

I thought so.

Except you completely fucking missed the very accurate explanation he gave on how you don't have to be deaf to be a member of the deaf community or understand it. You don't have to swim with multiple other people and breathe through gills to understand why and how fish do.

He dated an interpreter long term and likely met some of her deaf friends/clients, and has worked with his own. That's his door to the deaf community. No one is putting you down for being deaf, but it IS a disability as it is OBVIOUSLY not the norm for the human race.

Jesus man, be a little more open-minded. Just because you are deaf doesn't mean you are super special and no one understands you.

EDIT: On second thought, I'm going to learn ASL and plug up my ears for a year so I can gain insight into the deaf community. Since the only way is to be deaf, right?

[Null]

As a hearing impaired person myself I must say that I would NEVER want Cochlear implants and would never get them for my child unless they were old enough to make the decision on their own.

But I don't blame parents that get them for their child when the parents themselves don't know what its like. I just think its best to let the child make the choice.

I like how this went from talking about sign language to a shit slinging thread.

[Conrad]

lol, Archibald. How does having a relationship with a ASL interpreter and working with ONE deaf person qualify you as an expert over someone who's been deaf all their life?

I thought so.

You're ignoring the crux of the argument, which is the prejudice against those within the deaf community who wish to hear. Through your posts though, you seem to have neither a sense of humor (see: blarg's post) nor any respect for the hearing community (see: your dislike of implants on the notion that they are expensive and worthless). Instead of attacking others for being ignorant, I'd suggest more open-mindedness on your own part.

[Moridam]

@ the person who thinks deafness is a disability - I can't speak for others in the Deaf community, but I certainly don't consider myself disabled. I have my own business, live pretty well, and have a robust method of communication that allows me to express myself in ways YOU wouldn't think is possible. Technology is a wondeful thing. Just because someone isn't like you, doesn't mean they're disabled, you're just too blind to see past your own shortcomings.

the sole exception being: if technology can provide deaf people with a chance to have some capacity to hear things, it is the polar opposite of wonderful. am i getting this right?

[Militant]

I could sit and read Archi's posts all fucking day seriously.

[archibaldcrane]

Just don't get it on the keyboard.

[Blarg]

I had earwax once, you wouldn't believe the stuff I did that day.

[Akucaen]

I think it was the last time i differentiated between the phrases "I go" and "He goes"

You need to do Go-o and Go-a'ing. ;o You damn well knew what I meant.

[Zansho]

OK. I'm going to be as succinct as possible.

Inherently, the hearing community see us deaf folks as something that needs to be "fixed."

We see ourselves as a robust, prideful community that has accomplished a great manner of things without being "fixed."

Open-mindedness? I've tried being open-minded for the first 18 years of my life as a deaf person, only to find that my PERCEIVED disability kept people from allowing me to do the things "normal" children do. I was not allowed to take any driver's education classes at my local high school due to my "disability" posing an "inordinate" insurance risk. I was tasked to special education classes, even though it was obvious that my testing scores showed I really should have been in AP classes. It wasn't until my parents and I fought for my right to take those classes for 2 years that I finally was given a chance to do so. People see a deaf person, and automatically assume the worst, and that we are poor souls in need of saving.

We don't need no damn help. We function just fine as we are and we'll continue to thrive and be successful. And to be perfectly blunt, the hearing community's brand of open-mindedness is a flavor I'd rather pass on, because their version is - if you're not like us, don't speak our language, you're something that needs to be fixed, and assimilated into what we feel is "normal."

Granted, not every hearing person feels this way, and I applaud those that aren't as such. But the natural hearing perception on meeting a deaf person is to avoid them, and make no effort to communicate, and as such, the burden of communication falls upon us to bridge that gap.

Sure, I wonder every now and then what it must be like to hear. But I don't dwell on the things I can't control, and instead, focus on the things I CAN.

[kooja]

We don't need no damn help. ... I don't dwell on the things I can't control, and instead, focus on the things I CAN.

I bet if you could hear that first sentence you would look back and dwell on everything you've said, knowing that it was all equally retarded.

[Darus Grey]

It's not a perceived disability, it's a real one. Just cause you believe something, doesn't make it true. I.e. You're wrong, time to move on.

You're just one of those people who turn a disability into a superiority complex...people forced into a situation who come to terms with it by illogically rationalizing that they're better because of it.

When collectives of those people get together, you get elitist closed societies like the Pro-Deaf community who actively ostracise those who over-come their disability because it forces them to re-accept their reality and re-rationalize their stupid as fuck position.

[Ishido]

I was tasked to special education classes, even though it was obvious that my testing scores showed I really should have been in AP classes. It wasn't until my parents and I fought for my right to take those classes for 2 years that I finally was given a chance to do so. People see a deaf person, and automatically assume the worst, and that we are poor souls in need of saving.

Ever think you being placed in different classes was for the teacher's sake, and not a slight at you?