American Sign Language

[oldoldman]

And I'm honestly supposed to care about what some dude on a internet forum whom I'll probably never meet thinks of me?

Right.

Just because I don't agree or conform with what the majority of you think, it makes me a prick. Just because I expressed what the minority (the deaf community) feels about cochlear implants, makes me a prick. Just because I stick to my own personal beliefs, makes me a prick?

Then I'll gladly be a prick. Good day to you sir.

You suggested that it was wrong for parents to give their baby implants if it might help them hear. That, among other things, makes you a prick.

You can't hear, just because you can read and right my language doesn't mean you've walked a mile in my figurative shoes.

[Darus Grey]

P.S. You're clueless about how interpreters work. Your university should have a staff of interpreters for their deaf students, and I don't see any reason why they wouldn't provide an interpreter to accommodate your needs.

Blind folks also use ASL for their communication needs. Even more so if they're also deaf as well.

My ideology is mine, and mine alone. You may think I'm inconsistent, and you know what? Just because you've been temporarily "disabled" doesn't mean you've walked a mile in my figurative shoes.

I wasn't even responding to you. Get over yourself.

And I'm honestly supposed to care about what some dude on a internet forum whom I'll probably never meet thinks of me?

Right.

Just because I don't agree or conform with what the majority of you think, it makes me a prick. Just because I expressed what the minority (the deaf community) feels about cochlear implants, makes me a prick. Just because I stick to my own personal beliefs, makes me a prick?

Then I'll gladly be a prick. Good day to you sir.

What makes you a prick, is acting like one.

[archibaldcrane]

just because you can read and right my language

really?

[Zansho]

Read and "right?" Wow. Someone forgot a "w" there.

Fire truck coming around a corner, and I see traffic stop and not move due to said fire truck? Common sense says there's something like an emergency vehicle coming our way and it would be best to just pull over.

By the way, I CAN hear a fire truck's siren. Feel it, is more accurate, but I definitely know when an emergency vehicle is on the way.

And the reason why you folks think I'm acting like a "bigot" towards the hearing community, is because the hearing community has told me "I can't" do this and that. My own life has taught me that you don't let others define who you are, and that you are what you make of yourself. The majority of my experiences with the hearing community is that they generally think they know what I go through, when they honestly fucking don't. I had to laugh at one of the hearing students for my sociology class in college's experiment in being deaf for a week (he put in earplugs and put on those gun range earmuffs) and he claimed to totally understand what I go through on a daily basis. Nowhere close.

Again, I'm the minority here. I bet you that a lot of deaf folks that you meet will feel similarly about cochlear implants like I do. Anytime you meet one, ask them why not get one of those things? You'll most likely be treated with disdain, and given a multitude of curse words in ASL, and for a good reason.

Last but not least, the majority of deaf children are born to hearing parents. Of course hearing parents will search every available option out there for their child (they wouldn't be good parents if they didn't) to help them live a normal life. Sure, I get that. What I don't get is where they get off sticking the damn things in a BABY when he/she cannot say what they want - this is a life changing surgery, and sometimes it is for better, sometimes worse. AT LEAST WAIT TILL THE CHILD IS OF ABILITY TO DECIDE. There are other options that are not so permanent, and work just as well. Hearing aids have made huge strides over the years, and they could be a much better fit, and they're able to be removed readily and easily.

Deaf parents who have deaf children do this sort of thing. They don't inherently worry like a hearing parent would, simply because they understand the "disability" and know how to approach it - and their life experience will be an asset in that regard. If the child wants a cochlear implant at a later point in their lives, more power to them.

The majority of you just wouldn't understand the cultural aspects of being deaf.

[Norellicus]

Fire truck coming around a corner, and I see traffic stop and not move due to said fire truck? Common sense says there's something like an emergency vehicle coming our way and it would be best to just pull over.

This is common sense to you, but not something they'd be prone to teaching in your average driver's ed course. The specialized courses are there to approach the matter from a perspective that is relevant given the difference between yourself and someone who would otherwise hear the truck on the approach.

Which brings us back to the point many of us are making - your bitter aggression toward the hearing-enabled populous is grossly misappropriated, as no matter how capable you are it doesn't change the fact that you have to handle certain situations differently from everyone else. This is, for all intents and purposes, a disadvantage; one that can be overcome, no doubt, and I'm sure you've proven that time and again, but that doesn't change the simple matter that your case is uniquely contrast to your average joe.

[Tyche]

Last but not least, the majority of deaf children are born to hearing parents. Of course hearing parents will search every available option out there for their child (they wouldn't be good parents if they didn't) to help them live a normal life. Sure, I get that. What I don't get is where they get off sticking the damn things in a BABY when he/she cannot say what they want - this is a life changing surgery, and sometimes it is for better, sometimes worse. AT LEAST WAIT TILL THE CHILD IS OF ABILITY TO DECIDE. There are other options that are not so permanent, and work just as well. Hearing aids have made huge strides over the years, and they could be a much better fit, and they're able to be removed readily and easily.

A novel concept from someone without kids. Parents have to make decisions for children. Sometimes they have to make tough decisions for children that they may not like. It happens. How will a child know if they prefer the implant if they've never had it? How will a child know if they prefer to be deaf if they've lived their entire life with the implant? Believe it or not, children don't always make the best decisions for themselves. CRAZY, MADNESS, I KNOW! Children raised and adapted to being deaf are less likely to want to change, even though it may be for the better. At the same time, children raised and adapted to an implant are less likely to want it removed to construct to the social stigma of the deaf community. It's a tough decision that an 8 year old shouldn't have to make. When something has a chance at making a life altering change in ones life for the better, I'd feel it's best to do this as early as possible.

This sort of reminds me of the movement of circumsized adults who hate their parents because they didn't let them choose whether they wanted it or not.

[Zansho]

I bear no ill will towards the hearing population. I do, however, bear ill will towards parents who do put cochlear implants in children in hopes that they'll be like them. It might work with limited success, but honestly, their children will never be LIKE them.

And you know what? Given the life I've lead and if you were to ask me if I wanted to go back and do it all over again, but be hearing this go-around, I'd probably tell you thanks, but no thanks. I'm proud of what I've accomplished in my lifetime as a deaf person.

/shrugs. It's just a topic that's very close to home for me, and I feel very strongly about it.

[Norellicus]

As a matter of idle curiosity, would you be as vehemently against the implants if they were not externally visible?

[Zansho]

A novel concept from someone without kids. Parents have to make decisions for children. Sometimes they have to make tough decisions for children that they may not like. It happens. How will a child know if they prefer the implant if they've never had it? How will a child know if they prefer to be deaf if they've lived their entire life with the implant? Believe it or not, children don't always make the best decisions for themselves. CRAZY, MADNESS, I KNOW! Children raised and adapted to being deaf are less likely to want to change, even though it may be for the better. At the same time, children raised and adapted to an implant are less likely to want it removed to construct to the social stigma of the deaf community. It's a tough decision that an 8 year old shouldn't have to make. When something has a chance at making a life altering change in ones life for the better, I'd feel it's best to do this as early as possible.

This sort of reminds me of the movement of circumsized adults who hate their parents because they didn't let them choose whether they wanted it or not.

Tyche, where did I mention that I didn't have kids? I don't think I mentioned that at all. Assume much?

I'm married (to a woman who became deaf later in life) and we have our first child coming up soon this summer. I'll accept the child either way, deaf or hearing, it doesn't matter to me. But I won't be going OMGOHNOEZ if my doctor comes up to me with the news my child is deaf. I'll be going "That's fine, we'll know how to handle this situation because we've lived through it." I'll make the best possible decision for my child that I can. And before any of your freak out, I won't make the hearing child become deaf, lol. That's just inhumane and cruel. If it looks like hearing aids might help, I'm all for it. If hearing aids won't help, and our child is stone deaf (not likely, as our deafness isn't genetically predisposed), we'll handle that too.

My point is, that those implants should be a last resort option, not the first option on the table.

[Zansho]

As a matter of idle curiosity, would you be as vehemently against the implants if they were not externally visible?

That's a good question. Out of sight, out of mind would probably apply here. I can't be vehemently against something I can't see and therefore have no idea that it exists in the child's body.

But once I found out that they do have it, I'll probably feel differently.

[Jodwahh]

Like you won't hate someone until you find out they're gay/muslim/jewish/christian. Where's my facepalm.jpg.

[Aerides]

Zansho,

You're assuming parents get their children the implant to "be like them" and yet you call Tyche out on assuming you don't have kids. You can't possibly know to speak for a majority of hearing parents with a non-hearing child and what their meaning and intentions are, and the agonizing discussions held with their doctor(s) that I would imagine are held in a majority of such situations.

You may well be justified in your opinion, but don't assume that makes it a fact.

It's obvious you feel very passionately about this topic and I don't blame you for one second. But you seem very closed to the idea that it's an opinion and other folks might be permitted to feel differently. You come off as angry and refuse to consider any ideas other than your own on the implant topic at least, hence the animosity being slung back at you.

On page one if asked to choose between being blind or deaf, I would have picked deaf. By page 3 I have to say it might be the sight that should go - if nothing else the MANY VIEWS expressed here have made me think about that.

[Darus Grey]

As I said before, it's a common physcological disorder in which handicapped people develop superiority complexes, like being deaf isn't a disability but a "life-style choice".

You see it a lot in the very active parapalegics, pro-autistics, etc

That kind of attitude is how you get retarded deaf parents who *purposely* deafen their hearing children.

[Seraph]

That kind of attitude is how you get retarded deaf parents who *purposely* deafen their hearing children.

One of us. One of us. One of us.

[oldoldman]

Read and "right?" Wow. Someone forgot a "w" there.

And an E, and added a gh. I had sleeping pills in my system and it was late, point stands.

And the reason why you folks think I'm acting like a "bigot" towards the hearing community, is because the hearing community has told me "I can't" do this and that.

The only thing we're saying you "can't" do is hear.

The majority of you just wouldn't understand the cultural aspects of being deaf.

And you just wouldn't understand the cultural aspects of the hearing culture, so why do you feel being deaf gives you a better grasp one the implications of putting cochlear implants in a baby? Just because you have your own proud community doesn't make you normal, get the fuck over it.

[Tyche]

Shocking, I was correct in my assumption. Any parent could have pointed that out with the attitude you presented in the post I quoted.