Obama bans clove cigarettes and other types, nothing of value lost.

[kyod]

I worked at BoA for 2 years, I can say that WAY too many people are in CC debt, and the banks make it next to impossible for people to pay that shit off. ya ya people shouldn't charge that much etc., but a lot of it has to do with the banks making the interest rates shoot through the roof if someone misses one payment, and giving too much credit to people that don't know how to use it (i.e. fucking retarded teenagers).


better to have no credit than be 20k in debt by the time your 25 (which I saw a fucking ton of people in that situation.)

No credit means you can't do anything. I find the bill deprives a lot of young responsible people from obtaining a credit card and thus impeding them later in life.

'm 20 (21 this year) and my credit score ranges from 690-720 based on the credit reporting agency. My parents have really bad credit due to one getting injured in the line of duty and the other losing a job after company folded and sent work overseas, and then the whole post 9/11 economy downturn making it hard to find a job in his industry. Bills piled up and etc...

I got my first credit card while I was in school (17, a month before I turned 18) and worked a Work Study job (minimum wage) for only 15 hours a week. Maximum work study amount you could make at the time was around $2000. I charged things and I would pay it off once I got the bill. Some things it took me 2 or 3 months to pay off, but I did it. I ended up getting around 5 other credit cards to stores. I also had(have) student loans. I pay off cards I charge any amounts on the next month or two.

On campus housing is expensive as hell where I go to school, it's at least double the amount it costs to live in an apartment 1 block off campus. I needed a good credit score to rent an apartment without a co-signer, since my parents would never have been approved as co-signers. If I didn't get to build my credit at such a young age, I wouldn't have been able to get an apartment. I also wouldn't have been able to afford school, because all of the loans for school I have taken out are in my own name, without any co-signers.

If I had to wait until I was at least 21 to start my credit score, I would be fucked. Graduating from college with no credit is very dangerous unless you have parents who have stellar credit history. How are you going to get your own apartment when the landlord finds out you have no credit score? I wouldn't rent to someone who had no credit (inb4 discrimination).

I just think that portion of the law is going to make it much harder for college students to make due during college and post-graduation. They already have it hard enough with student loans.

I also think it's going to make the banks up the rates on credit cards and start handing out much less credit than they did before.

OT: lolcigs?

[Klaatu]

Why are they making special exception for menthol?

[Maxxthepenguin]

No credit means you can't do anything. I find the bill deprives a lot of young responsible people from obtaining a credit card and thus impeding them later in life.

'm 20 (21 this year) and my credit score ranges from 690-720 based on the credit reporting agency. My parents have really bad credit due to one getting injured in the line of duty and the other losing a job after company folded and sent work overseas, and then the whole post 9/11 economy downturn making it hard to find a job in his industry. Bills piled up and etc...

I got my first credit card while I was in school (17, a month before I turned 18) and worked a Work Study job (minimum wage) for only 15 hours a week. Maximum work study amount you could make at the time was around $2000. I charged things and I would pay it off once I got the bill. Some things it took me 2 or 3 months to pay off, but I did it. I ended up getting around 5 other credit cards to stores. I also had(have) student loans. I pay off cards I charge any amounts on the next month or two.

On campus housing is expensive as hell where I go to school, it's at least double the amount it costs to live in an apartment 1 block off campus. I needed a good credit score to rent an apartment without a co-signer, since my parents would never have been approved as co-signers. If I didn't get to build my credit at such a young age, I wouldn't have been able to get an apartment. I also wouldn't have been able to afford school, because all of the loans for school I have taken out are in my own name, without any co-signers.

If I had to wait until I was at least 21 to start my credit score, I would be fucked. Graduating from college with no credit is very dangerous unless you have parents who have stellar credit history. How are you going to get your own apartment when the landlord finds out you have no credit score? I wouldn't rent to someone who had no credit (inb4 discrimination).

I just think that portion of the law is going to make it much harder for college students to make due during college and post-graduation. They already have it hard enough with student loans.

I also think it's going to make the banks up the rates on credit cards and start handing out much less credit than they did before.

OT: lolcigs?

Society adapted to having everything revolve around credit cards and credit scores. It can adapt away from it.

Why are they making special exception for menthol?

cause nigga don't play

[Ksandra]

I also think it's going to make the banks up the rates on credit cards and start handing out much less credit than they did before.

OT: lolcigs?

my response is here:

http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/77185...ml#post2836034

didn't want to keep derailing thread

[archibaldcrane]

• For college students who do not have a co-signer, the maximum amount of credit extended will be limited to the greater of 20 percent of the student's annual gross income or $500 dollars. The aggregate amount of credit extended from all of their credit cards will be limited to 30 percent of the student's annual gross income (for the recently completed calendar year).
• Creditors are prohibited from opening a credit card account for any college student who does not have any verifiable annual gross income or already maintains a credit card account with that creditor, or any of its affiliates.

That would've pissed me off when I was 18, buying shit like a new computer on a credit card requires more credit than they are allowing college students to have if they aren't working. Everything else but those two bullet points sounds great to me.

re: kyod I'm sure banks will still mob-rush the student populace if only to just hand out $500/max credit cards, because that's still $500 to collect easy interest and fees on stupid college kids. You don't need a huge credit limit to build your credit, and I sincerely doubt banks are going to stop extending tiny lines of credit to kids.

[Khamsin]

That would've pissed me off when I was 18, buying shit like a new computer on a credit card requires more credit than they are allowing college students to have if they aren't working. Everything else but those two bullet points sounds great to me.

I don't see the problem. If you're a college student who can afford to buy a laptop, you can afford to charge part of it and pay the remainder in cash.

If you have no money, then you probably aren't able to afford a laptop. The worst thing you could do in that case is charge the full price of a laptop with no money to speak of. How will you pay it off?

Credit isn't an avenue for people without money to still be able to buy stuff. It's a way for people who can already afford something to spread payments over a period of time.

Wrong: "I don't have any money, so I'll put it on my credit card."

Right: "I have the money, but rather than save up for a few months or spending all the money in my bank account, I'll make smaller payments over a period of time to keep a decent amount of cash on hand at all times."

[archibaldcrane]

I don't see the problem. If you're a college student who can afford to buy a laptop, you can afford to charge part of it and pay the remainder in cash.

That would've annoyed me. It's not the end of the world, but it would've been a completely unnecessary inconvenience for me.

I'm not bitching too hard about this bill, probably a good thing, but the college student restriction feels a little arbitrary - what about 18 year olds who aren't college students? They can get regular cards?

[Khamsin]

I'm not bitching too hard about this bill, probably a good thing, but the college student restriction feels a little arbitrary - what about 18 year olds who aren't college students? They can get regular cards?

Seems like it. The restriction only applies to students who are enrolled in an ABET accredited institution for more than 9 credits of active classes. Not sure if it will include vocational/technical schools and part time students at some point.

[archibaldcrane]

We'll call it the "college credit penalty".

[Ivve]

I've always wondered what the draw of tobacco is. I mean... obviously after you smoke a bit you're doing it out of addiction... but why start?

I started smoking cigarettes to cover up the smell of all the weed I was smoking, but kept smoking because it did convenient shit like get me additional breaks at work. That shit is beyond priceless. I actually really, really enjoyed smoking and trying new blends and types of cigarettes. I liked buying clove cigarettes during the holidays because they had a festive seasonal taste.

I think smoking is a lot like beer drinking. Some people I know could stomach beer from the first sip, for others it was an acquired taste to achieve the drunkenness (and cheapness) effect they wanted, and then there are still some who just can't get into beers at all.

I don't understand all this anti-smoking legislation. I get that other people don't want to be sick from the second hand smoke, and that's fine. Granted, I think it's more than a little stupid that they make me go outside to smoke and then go home and eat red meat every night for dinner or carry around 45lbs of extra weight and that isn't regulated in any way by the government, but the world is how it is.

I'm actually pretty upset by this ban on flavored tobacco, though. As someone who is of legal age and simply wants to enjoy their tobacco in a variety of novelty flavors, I think it's pretty unfair to penalize me because there are apparently people who are incapable of discouraging the marketing and sale of tobacco products to minors. This is like banning flavored liquors and mixed drinks because the number of teen drunk driving fatalities is high, or some statistics showed that people who begin drinking underage trend toward lifelong problems with binge drinking/alcoholism.

I would gladly attend some sort of mandatory smoker awareness class and sign some sort of waiver saying I understand the health consequences of smoking if they'd stop trying to legislate my fucking pleasures into the ground. Truly what the fuck.

[Senoska]

Does this affect cigars and shit? I really like the wine flavored black and milds... I don't even smoke but if someones fucking with my black and milds, I think I'm going to be starting some fights.

[gamez]

Typically on the issue of smoking, I keep my mouth shut, and designated smoking areas do their jobs to the degree they're meant.

I can't help but stop and ridicule the people who argued that alcohol or big macs are just as bad, because I can't get intoxicated within a couple feet of your glass, nor does the smell of your burger fatten me up. Recognizably however, cigarettes have a larger proximity of effecting everyone else.

Addicts(and smoker's will always fall into this category), tend to deny and argue their perspective rights all the time, simply because they're addicted to something. But that doesn't really change the negative, obvious effect that fiberglass, tar, arsenic and pneumonia are probably a bad combination to turn into an inhalant substance.

Smoke naturally whatever you want, but it's not fresh-picked tobacco or flavoring, that should really have the ban. It's the excess chemical refinement. In normal circumstances if you were to review whether you wanted to ingest them, or mix them into a family dinner, you'd say fuck no.

I'm not going to outcry that you should stop, nor that smoker's bug me. I can fucking walk away, you can do what you want. But justifying it, then ridiculing non-smoker's perspectives sounds way more ridiculous every time the issue arises.

In Canada, we have the same large photo warning labels as Australia mentioned earlier in the thread, as well as the smoking wall behind the counter of convenience stores now have shutters in front of the display to remove the product from plain view.

Next up, Caffiene addiction.

[Ivve]

@Gamez, that's not really the issue here. I understand that smoking can affect other people and I have no problem limiting it to designated outdoor smoking areas. The problem that I see is people are harping on me for ruining their health and then turning around and doing a million times more damage to themselves than being in the same building as me while I smoke one cigarette. It's just kind of hypocritical and to me emphasizes the problem we have as a society of placing blame everywhere but ourselves. Should cigarette smoking be banned in areas where it can affect non-smokers? Sure.

I just find the high and mighty attitude pretty similar to the pregnant woman who decried the affect that noise pollution from construction on her street might be having on her baby, while holding a lit cigarette in her hand. With smoking being practically completely banned in all indoor settings, second hand smoke is becoming a more and more ridiculous complaint. You're now upset about the 1.2 seconds you're walking by my 4x4 outdoor smoking area? Get the fuck out.

I'd like to know when legislation will be passed to punish people for being a drain on available public funds like medicare/other state medical assistance programs/social security coverage (and driving up private insurance coverage prices) with their self-induced problems brought on by obesity and alcohol use/abuse. Just because you're not affecting my health directly by damaging my liver with the alcohol in your glass does not mean your actions will never affect me. I certainly got turned down for several policies and paid a shit-ton more for the one I finally got when I acknowledged that I was a smoker. Funny; I don't know any obese people who had similar problems.

As a smoker, I paid my dues to everyone else. I had to go outside to smoke, regardless of weather conditions. That fucking sucks, but I dealt with it because it was your preference. I had to listen to every clever motherfucker in the world tell me, "Those things will kill ya you know!" as if I am a) unaware and b) this is the first time it's being presented to me as a fact. I paid more for insurance of all kinds, which blows, but I dealt with that too. I believe there are new cigarette taxes in most places, so smokers put more into public coffers than most other people. The thanks we get for submitting to all of these impositions is more legislation and limitations, while the alcoholics and obese slobs of the nation cruise through life with barely a care in the world. If my indulgences should be taxed, then absolutely so should everyone else's.

That's not really related to the ban, however. I agree with the need for truth as it relates to the product; nobody should be able to market their cigarettes as more healthy when that's really not the case. However, arguing that fruit and spice flavored cigarettes target children is ridiculous. The only place I have ever seen those particular types of cigarettes carried as a regular part of inventory is in tobacco specialty stores, and in the places I have lived, those are rarely located in convenient shopping centers that house any other businesses that would be frequented by kids or minors. It's not like they've got a tobacco specialty store next to the Chuck E. Cheez with big fucking cigarettes-as-candy type ads plastered up in the windows.

The tobacco advertisement zoning issue being addressed here is definitely worthwhile and makes perfect sense, but it seems a little too "WHO WILL HELP THE CHI'RINS?!" when honestly I have never in my 23 years on this earth ever played on a playground where I noticed any tobacco advertisements, nor have I seen anything of that sort since growing out of a playground age.

Overall, some of this seems okay and some of it seems either unnecessary or overboard. I'm deeply unimpressed with this legislation, though I'm sure all the would-be health nuts who support this ludicrous shit will consider this a victory and feel really good about themselves while they (and their obese kids) tuck in to their serving size that's 4x as large as it should be. Enjoy it while it lasts, because you're next.

[Dimmauk]

Caffine is WAY harder to quit than Nicotine.

Caffine is my master. I must obey.

[Olo401]

Does this affect cigars and shit? I really like the wine flavored black and milds... I don't even smoke but if someones fucking with my black and milds, I think I'm going to be starting some fights.

The flavoring ban is specifically targeted at cigarettes and component parts of cigarettes. It does not affect cigars, blunt wraps or chewing tobacco, but it DOES affect loose flavored tobacco becuase you can roll it into a cigarette. I imagine it also covers flavored rolling papers but I've personally never seen such a thing.

The thing that seemed unclear is whether cigarillos (i.e. Capones or Nat Shermans) count as cigarettes.

[Senoska]

Caffine is WAY harder to quit than Nicotine.

Caffine is my master. I must obey.

True story. I quit smoking no problem. I woke up one day and just said "fuck it." and that was that. Caffeine I was in bed for 3 days, couldn't get up to piss because my head was pounding so fucking hard, and fell asleep at my computer a few times.

I felt like I was quitting heroine or something.

[Max™]

On the one hand, it is an infringement of my right to be a stupid douchebag, both to myself and other people.

What's next, are they going to ban peoples right to walk around talking on cellphones in public?

Oh wait... that would be an improvement to society as a whole... um.

Are they going to ban my right to make as many kids as I want without any sort of contract in place ensuring I have to be responsible for them, not just financially, but as a parent?

Nope, that would be a good thing as well.

Um... are they going to ban my right to run around screaming spoilers for movies at people standing in line for those movies?

Man... it's really hard to think of anything you can do which directly infringes on another persons comfort and privacy which shouldn't be made illegal.


Cigarettes should not be protected, neither should being able to shoot yourself in the face in the middle of a restaurant... not because you are hurting yourself, but because of the damage you might inflict upon others.

Futurama style suicide booths would be fine though, I guess.

[Vade]

I laughed that part of the law now is the warning label has to be even bigger now.
I hate smoking, but seriously, the warning label was never going to stop anyone from smoking.
why is smoking so aggressively attacked anyways? alcohol causes a lot more, and a lot worse problems, and theres not even a small warning label on that.

The labels in Europe are like half the package. it's kinda funny reading the same messages in 5 different languages

[Klaatu]

Obama: Full flavor or gtfo

[Tristam]

The flavoring ban is specifically targeted at cigarettes and component parts of cigarettes. It does not affect cigars, blunt wraps or chewing tobacco, but it DOES affect loose flavored tobacco becuase you can roll it into a cigarette. I imagine it also covers flavored rolling papers but I've personally never seen such a thing.

The thing that seemed unclear is whether cigarillos (i.e. Capones or Nat Shermans) count as cigarettes.

Really? damn... What about pipe tobacco? There's an old doc who smokes pipes outside our lab after lunchtime, I actually like the smel.