Post concerning "Tanaka Producer inteview on Latest Famitsu regarding FF11" Interview pg.4

[Indalecia]

Mythics

[Keyln]

summoner damage as is is fine, considering the boost to group 2 merits, the +skill is acc patch, and new(ish) gear like acp7 earrings, redingote, karura hachigane, and the like. we don't need any new modifications to damage pacts, just more players willing to gear up more than just AF/relic and yyr with +mp gear.

the only thing i see summoner lacking as it is now is a second buff to be used for DDs in merits and endgame. we have hastega which is on par with normal haste, but the options for the second buff are either forced situational with ecliptic howl, or too damn short and weak like crimson howl.

I know it's a shock and all, but I definately agree with you on this. Damage wise, SMN is pretty good. However, there are a few buffs that need to be stronger. The two I'm looking at is Crimson Howl, which is way too short and too weak (especially compared against similar buffs such as minuet or Chaos Roll). Ecliptic Howl, which is a pretty good buff, could be stronger, and have a greater range (maybe instead of +1-25 based on moon, more like +10 - +45 based on moon).

As far as new avatars, well, it really depends. New avatars have helped in the past (see what happened with Fenrir) as well as been lackluster (see Diabolos). Honestly, what we need is a light based avatar (with both physical and magical properties) to complete our set of all eight elements. Honestly, I'm hoping for Alexander.

Also, from what was said in the last Fan Fest, the new avatars aren't just for summoning, but a new way of play. So, it has the potential of being revolutionary. Although, I'm not getting my hopes up too high here, but I figure the worst thing that could happen is that nothing changes. (Well, maybe not the WORST, but being an eternal optimist, it's hard to be negative...)

[BRP]

Yeah, letting INT/MND/CHR or whatever else they can equip on mage gear + their AF/Relic make a difference would be really nice. It would not only boost the job, but also make them not feel left out considering how much time people spend just looking for gear.

[Gergall]

SMN is not quite the only job that can collect all of their "best" gear to no effect. BRDs either have a relic horn or they don't. You can handle 98% of the game's content with your WHMs completely naked.

The other 2% of the game is broken or a mystery.

[Neosutra]

Smn needs a hell of alot more than a few BP buff improvements to compete with other jobs currently.

As a DD, it is 2nd or 3rd rate at best, and the old novelty of "hateless damage" is lost with better tanking ability and tactics these days.

As a buffer, it is one of the worst. MP costs are too high, effects are too low, and the time is hurt by BP timer.

SMN needs:

Remove BP timer for all Buff spells. (You are limited by MP, you dont need another "fuck you guys").

Increase the attack bonus and duration of Crimson Howl.

Fix the acc/eva/stats bonus of Fenrir's buffs.

Bump up duration and effect of Garuda haste.

Make a JA that removes BP timer for damaging BPs, but shifts a portion of hate to the smn.

Fix avatar meleeing. Seriously.

[BRP]

SMN is not quite the only job that can collect all of their "best" gear to no effect. BRDs either have a relic horn or they don't. You can handle 98% of the game's content with your WHMs completely naked.

The other 2% of the game is broken or a mystery.

I wouldn't put WHM in the same boat. Growth is there, but ignored. We don't have situations that require it. Healing Magic is filled with too many absolutes. Why is curing Byakko's paralyze the same as curing a random tiger's paralyze? For example.

[frodnonnag]

Yeah, letting INT/MND/CHR or whatever else they can equip on mage gear + their AF/Relic make a difference would be really nice. It would not only boost the job, but also make them not feel left out considering how much time people spend just looking for gear.

summoner gear is fine, its just different and not dependent on base stats. seriously, i see far too many summoners not using +skill builds, or using +mp only gear, or not properly macroing -bp timer gear, who then turn around and bitch about their pact's shitty accuracy, or lack of damage to their group 2 merit pacts, while i turn around and can do a consistent 500-600 damage every 46 seconds to tiamat with both wind blade and predator claws, claws occasionally peaking 1k, or 1k to fafnir with wind blade. i've also seen 1300s wind blades to some tier 2 and tier 3 znm, and i've seen over 1600 to 2k to puddings in nyzul isle. the damage is there, it just needs the proper gear and merits like any other job.

the only weaknesses this job has is early and mid game, and as a completely viable alternative to rdm, brd or cor in merits or endgame events. early and mid game the job is essentially naked for 60 levels, but with ffxi being this late in life, that really doesn't matter anymore. the biggest thing then becomes merit parties, and by extension buffing/supporting DDs in a party. we just don't have a viable and consistent second buff that can compete with what bards or corsair offer, and we don't have the level of support of sleep, cure 4, dia/bio 3 or pro/shell 4 that redmages offer. what we need is a consistent, non-situational buff that competes on the level of bard or cor, preferrably attack(boost crimson howl), accuracy(boost ecliptic howl), double attack, critical hit or the like. crimson howl, ecliptic howl and rolling thunder all have potential, but as is all 3 have horrible issues. crimson howl is too short, even with my +75 skill build, to use. ecliptic howl relies on the moon phase and is still too weak of a buff, and rolling thunder is quite weak, but a large boost to damage could make it useful.


mp costs of the abilities are largely irrelevant, considering +hmp builds, elemental siphon, latent refresh and outside refresh. i have a hmp build of +47, which means something like 75 mp my first tic resting. i also have a +75 skill build, giving me at least 323 mp every five minutes. and there's the 2-3 mp a tic latent refresh from auto refresh, yyr, and sigil/sanction/signet.

[BRP]

the only weaknesses this job has is early and mid game, and as a completely viable alternative to rdm, brd or cor in merits or endgame events. early and mid game the job is essentially naked for 60 levels, but with ffxi being this late in life, that really doesn't matter anymore

It always matters. Not until they remove levels 1-74 from the game and Job Change and Level Caps. You contradict yourself with the first sentence: "different" as in "different from good" and not reacting to base stats basically makes base stats not base stats.

There is no reason why INT/MND/CHR/etc can't/shouldn't do stuff Skill and specific bonuses do now(or more) when it is built in right into the job. I can't understand why a SMN would want yet another auto-Refresh piece or yet another "Enhance Avatar Atks..." or etc instead of turning over a hundred of pieces equipment you can currently wear(and your highest built-in stats) into something useful. Of course this is up to SE, and their style is more like adding another layer of glaze instead of fixing errors within the foundation. (And in doing so, would make those changes to the foundation overpowered later on, inaccessible. ie: Defense/Blood Tanking and Paladin)

[frodnonnag]

It always matters. Not until they remove levels 1-74 from the game and Job Change and Level Caps. You contradict yourself with the first sentence: "different" as in "different from good" and not reacting to base stats basically makes base stats not base stats.

There is no reason why INT/MND/CHR/etc can't/shouldn't do stuff Skill and specific bonuses do now(or more) when it is built in right into the job. I can't understand why a SMN would want yet another auto-Refresh piece or yet another "Enhance Avatar Atks..." or etc instead of turning over a hundred of pieces equipment you can currently wear(and your highest built-in stats) into something useful. Of course this is up to SE, and their style is more like adding another layer of glaze instead of fixing errors within the foundation. (And in doing so, would make those changes to the foundation overpowered later on, inaccessible. ie: Defense/Blood Tanking and Paladin)

like any of the other pet jobs, our stats don't have an effect on the pet's stats. why should i, as a mage, be wearing +str to buff the attack of my pet?

[BRP]

like any of the other pet jobs, our stats don't have an effect on the pet's stats. why should i, as a mage, be wearing +str to buff the attack of my pet?

Well Pet Jobs tend to suck. Have you noticed that trend? PUP has a very complicated pet, so they get by as being interesting and DRG is much more focused on the master so it is rather efficient by comparison. SMN and BST, respectively, fall between the two and are mostly poor shows that could use great deal of improvement.

Also as a mage, you would likely to be using INT, MND, and CHR. Those are stats readily available to SMN from equipment and they are SMN's highest base stats(some of the highest in the game.)

[Corrderio]

Yeah, letting INT/MND/CHR or whatever else they can equip on mage gear + their AF/Relic make a difference would be really nice. It would not only boost the job, but also make them not feel left out considering how much time people spend just looking for gear.

That would be an interesting concept...

[Snprphnx]

yay, another avatar for the hordes of korroloka tunnel smns to whip out

wonder what the census will say next year for the popularity of smn???

[Melios]

And FF14 is going to suck some balls if the same dev crew is on it. Clearly they're too damn dense to learn what the playerbase wants in almost a decade. They sure as shit won't figure it out in the next two years.

As if the playerbase themselves know what they want....

[Melios]

One has to ask what SE was thinking when they developed NMs like Argus in a group-oriented FFXI of 2004.

You put one great drop on the NM, design it in such a way that it can take days to pop and then expect this group to reward one single person for the grueling effort? Did they know nothing of human nature? The whole ordeal could be likened to putting 3 people in a jail cell, starving them for a few days then setting out one bowl of soup and expecting them to work out some complex way of sharing where everyone ends up happy. Did they not expect some people to use others? For people to snap and do something they otherwise wouldn't under better conditions?

Probably not. Origin Systems certainly didn't seem to anticipate what human nature would do in Ultima Online......

[Silenka]

summoner damage as is is fine, considering the boost to group 2 merits, the +skill is acc patch, and new(ish) gear like acp7 earrings, redingote, karura hachigane, and the like. we don't need any new modifications to damage pacts, just more players willing to gear up more than just AF/relic and yyr with +mp gear.

the only thing i see summoner lacking as it is now is a second buff to be used for DDs in merits and endgame. we have hastega which is on par with normal haste, but the options for the second buff are either forced situational with ecliptic howl, or too damn short and weak like crimson howl.

Sorry but I gotta go with BRP on this one. You probably get invited to everything as smn because I think you said you've always only had smn at 75. My smn is extremely well-geared but 99% of the time if my party wants a DD they will ask for my blm or mnk, if my party wants a buffer they will ask for my cor or brd, and if my party wants a support healer they will ask for whm dnc (lol jk) or pretty much anything other than smn. The only action my summoner ever gets to see is on things like JoT or ZNM where the fights need certain type of damage or are largely kited, or on things like Odin where hateless damage is important. Regardless of the fact that I would like to play smn for more things, it's admittedly just not practical in comparison to other jobs I have, and other jobs that could be invited into the party.

Summoner has a lot of problems still, because it's not a niche job. DNC PUP and BST also have this problem. It does a little bit of a lot of things decently well, but it doesn't do one specific thing peerlessly, and that's why it's never going to get used over a BRD or a SAM or what have you. And it's not even something inherently wrong with the job, but the way people play nowadays leaves no party slot for a summoner for 99% of situations.

[Plow]

Triple dagger was never the best dagger at it's level, but there was a time many years ago when most people didn't know any better and it was considered to be quite valuable.

This weapon was obsoleted by the spread of knowledge.

This comment fits nicely with the smn discussion as well.

Once we learned how hate really works, SMN became blm's that can't nuke as often.


The job was obsoleted by the spread of knowledge.

[eva00r]

This comment fits nicely with the smn discussion as well.

Once we learned how hate really works, SMN became blm's that can't nuke as often.


The job was obsoleted by the spread of knowledge.

No, SMN still has its own ground landing consistent damage with much less gear requirement than BLM -and- SMN is VERY useful against NMs that can put up physical/magical damage barrier. Don't say BLM and a SAM would also do that job perfectly, because sometimes only 1 person can show up in that event. Yeah, it happens a lot.

[Elmer the Pointy]

OK, I got it all done and uploaderated. Not tons of new stuff, but it was a fun read.

You can read it all here

I hear there is a interview coming out next week with some Pandemonium Warden talk in it. Should be exciting...

[Corrderio]

As if the playerbase themselves know what they want....

Good point, though I can say I'm pretty sure we know what we don't want from some experiences in XI.

[TummieGaruda]

A lot of players out there are probably more curious about the rewards, though. Ogawa indicates that the reward system will continue in the same fashion, utilizing the Tenshodo Treasure Box to dispense items and titles. The items themselves, however, will be different from the rewards in A Crystalline Prophecy.

I guess that shoots down my idea that SE was going to make 3 new model bodies with the same stats and augment choices so a person can have 3 augmented bodys after all 3 expansions are completed.