Post concerning "Tanaka Producer inteview on Latest Famitsu regarding FF11" Interview pg.4

[Hosom]

Good luck keeping that SAm alive.

Your sams full time BQ ring?

[luciferu]

Nothing about FFXIV in Famitsu?

[Gwynplaine]

Is this it?
Allakhazam.com: Final Fantasy XI: Dengeki Interview: The Future of FFXI

[Thiefami]

Everyone is arguing about how to make summoner better and the job is broken beyond repair. I hear people talking about +skill gear, when I rarely swap besides my torque and I can dish the same damage as any summoner with full skill gear on lol. The job is random, and pretty redundant and it saddens me SE will never fix it. We will get a new avatar that is about it, and I could careless about that either.

Back on topic, that interview sucked to me. It's awesome they are biding their time releasing info on ffxiv maybe its to avoid making false promises, but I doubt that is it because they love to over exaggerate and hype things up. I want more info, and more on fixing dnc and pup.

[Gergall]

Is this it?
Allakhazam.com: Final Fantasy XI: Dengeki Interview: The Future of FFXI

Oh, and in a rather coy manner, Ogawa apologizes to those ever-patient Summoners, saying their long-awaited new Avatar is just around the corner... He could have at least said whether it was coming in this update or not!

I particularly noticed that "Avatar" was singular.

[Knightfell]

OK, I got it all done and uploaded. Not tons of new stuff, but it was a fun read.

Thanks for the new info.

[frodnonnag]

Everyone is arguing about how to make summoner better and the job is broken beyond repair. I hear people talking about +skill gear, when I rarely swap besides my torque and I can dish the same damage as any summoner with full skill gear on lol. The job is random, and pretty redundant and it saddens me SE will never fix it. We will get a new avatar that is about it, and I could careless about that either.

that is a crock of shit and i'm calling you out on it. the damage from physical damage does have a variance to it, but it is still quite obvious when i land a pact compared to a unmerited, ungeared "smn burned to 75" smn. physical pacts alone my average is higher, i crit on monsters like tiamat/khimaira more often, and i miss less, just like any other job. magic pacts, specifically the merited ones, benefit greatly from being merited max, and their accuracy is boosted from a +skill build. stop using this as an excuse for not properly gearing when you use the job, its like a DD fulltiming a TP build, then bitching that their WS damage sucks.

[LinkNZ]

Okay so now we've got a new Avatar (1) coming, maybe, soon?

One is better than nothing at least I guess.

Please don't make it too impossible/annoying to get SE.

The just around the corner part made me think of adventuring fellow lol.

[Elmer the Pointy]

I particularly noticed that "Avatar" was singular.

Singular/Plural aren't as clearly defined in Japanese, and with how cryptic he was, you might still be able to hold out hope.

[Plow]

Rather have SMN for Odin, Sarameya, Tyger, Most JoL, Nosferatu, Gulool Ja Ja all i can think of at this point.

I dunno about Odin.

Sarameya no way in hell.

Tyger SMN over SAM sure, but BLM can do it better now that people understand threat.

JoL = pretty much a tie on melee vs smn, melee can do a hell of a lot more dmg, but needs support. I don't think I even need to comment on the value of BLM's here.

Nosferatu I don't know much about, but I don't see any reason SMN would be superior to BLM (honestly wouldn't you rather have him flipping out on dd's than healers after charms anyway?), or just burning it fast.

And Gulool I don't know much, but considering Decussate is blinkable, I don't see the smn advantage here over sam.


Again, I'm not saying there's no fights where SMN is useful... but the fact that the only ones where it's really good are highly debatable as to rather it's the best or not (and in most there's absolutely no debate between SMN and RNG, if SAM or BLM is out of the "nullifying smn usefulness" picture) just pretty much says it all.



Anyway... I think this is kind of off topic, even though there's smn stuff in the interview, and I really have no ideas on how to fix it, so meh.

[Thiefami]

that is a crock of shit and i'm calling you out on it. the damage from physical damage does have a variance to it, but it is still quite obvious when i land a pact compared to a unmerited, ungeared "smn burned to 75" smn. physical pacts alone my average is higher, i crit on monsters like tiamat/khimaira more often, and i miss less, just like any other job. magic pacts, specifically the merited ones, benefit greatly from being merited max, and their accuracy is boosted from a +skill build. stop using this as an excuse for not properly gearing when you use the job, its like a DD fulltiming a TP build, then bitching that their WS damage sucks.

call me out on whatever you want it's the truth, don't get your little feelings hurt because in the end all of your gear means squat lol. I have max summon skill, and I only use horn and torque lol. It's all random and apart from minuscule differences summon skill means squat besides duration

[TummieGaruda]

SMN damage is the only DD source I can think of that does not have to go through a dLVL check (meaning the level of the mob does not affect accuracy and/or damage output). This alone makes it unique and strong given the right situation.

I believe charmed pets fall into this category as well. I had some asumptions a while back that SMN bypasses level correction and sure enough going WHM/SMN to Vunkerl Inlet, avatars parsed about a 30% hitrate. If there was level correcting going on, that number should've been much lower than that. I need to go back to trying to figure out SMN acc and how its calculated.

But back on Topic, SMN Damage doesn't need to be boosted honestly. I think they do fine as it is. I think the biggest issue is a way to keep pets out. Siphon and Sublimation do help, and there are ways BP and keep your avatar out in cycles of 3-4 minutes with just 1 minute of rest per cycle, but I don't think it is enough. SE said in interviews that these new avatars won't be as ability based and will work on a different system so it would kind of nice to have an avatar like Auroral Alicorn that doesn't suck MP, but rather passive DoT on itself like the real freelance NPC.

[frodnonnag]

call me out on whatever you want it's the truth, don't get your little feelings hurt because in the end all of your gear means squat lol. I have max summon skill, and I only use horn and torque lol. It's all random and apart from minuscule differences summon skill means squat besides duration

do you have max bp timer gear, or pet attack gear like karura hachigane, summoner pigaches, augmented ruby earrings, or redingote? do you have a +hmp build? a -perp build?

a properly geared summoner outdamages any AH summoner not only in pure damage, but in occurrence of BPs, mana efficiency, and resting. there's no debate about it, i WILL outdamage any misgeared or AH geared summoner in any identical situation without question.

[jimbobsonofgod]

I am going call out zil on this, although not everyone does it in a 5 second melee burn.

But if you ask zil the last time he did sara were there more smn or sams he'd be lying if he chose the latter of the two.

on another side note, I do agree with the randomness of SMN damage and believe it should be adjusted.

[Thiefami]

do you have max bp timer gear, or pet attack gear like karura hachigane, summoner pigaches, augmented ruby earrings, or redingote? do you have a +hmp build? a -perp build?

a properly geared summoner outdamages any AH summoner not only in pure damage, but in occurrence of BPs, mana efficiency, and resting. there's no debate about it, i WILL outdamage any misgeared or AH geared summoner in any identical situation without question.

yea but were not debating -perp +hmp +avt attack rofl, we are talking about smn skill. I clearly stated it does not do a whole hell of alot besides duration. I've been a career summoner for so long until I finally given up on the broken to all hell job. I wish it were better but it is not, my summoning skill is maxed, it is merited, and i use only an evoker's horn +1, and a summoning torque as far as summoning skill goes. I can say I see those spike 1k's too with my garuda, I see consistent damage with my 75 pacts TOO with my summoner, all of which (besides the lv 75 pacts) I see a non 75 summoner or non merited summoner perform just the same to deny this is stupid lol. Stacking summoning magic skill on me does no good at some point you have to sit back and consider broke is broke now fix it. Don't give me the rant about an Auction house summoner they don't exist! What can you buy? Staves, torque, austere, and a ring that gives you -perp if youre in the yellow that is it, and that's such a stupid argument to begin anyway. Most if not all summoner gear comes from a quest, dynamis, ZNM, limbus or Bahamut there is no such thing as an auction house summoner lol.

I'm with whoever said make our stats mean something who cares if other pet/master jobs don't follow it, why do people feel there always has to be a precedent to fix a problem. That is what would make a job unique. I DONT want scholar-like charges, I DONT want free avatars, I DONT want any other bs halfass fix that anyone can think of. What does sound nice however, is making MIND, CHR, INT do something, how about giving avatars "JOBS" should garuda and titan really do the same damage, should they take the same damage? SHould they attack at the same speed? However the job should be fixed i'm really not one to say, but I can say that all the ideas expressed on the matter simply wouldn't cut it for me.

[Yugl]

Summoner has a lot of problems still, because it's not a niche job. DNC PUP and BST also have this problem. It does a little bit of a lot of things decently well, but it doesn't do one specific thing peerlessly, and that's why it's never going to get used over a BRD or a SAM or what have you.

I remember putting up this argument months ago then getting bitched at because people disagreed and said "Oh but it's a hybrid".

Name 1 mob you'd pick a smn over a sam or war for?


Congrats, you just named a mob you'd rather have a blm for.


I'm not saying SMN has no role whatsoever, but one or the other of blm or sam is going to be dramatically more useful in virtually any situation, you don't need both to make up for 1 smn. There's certainly nothing that would require a smn over one of the other 2.

Odin. And no, BLM does not show up at Odin.

Edit: I like how in the interview, the put the pic of the statues right next to the "Future of FFXI" line.

[Tachi]

Tyger SMN over SAM sure, but BLM can do it better now that people understand threat.

Better? Nukes are shitty on him and highly resisted. Even unresisted, Predator Claw hits for much much more.

JoL = pretty much a tie on melee vs smn, melee can do a hell of a lot more dmg, but needs support. I don't think I even need to comment on the value of BLM's here.

Predator Claw is lol on him but a fully merited BP does 750~800 dmg.

Nosferatu I don't know much about, but I don't see any reason SMN would be superior to BLM (honestly wouldn't you rather have him flipping out on dd's than healers after charms anyway?), or just burning it fast.

Charmga spam at the end and Magic Dmg is also very gimped. BLM is good for Stun the summoning animation.

And Gulool I don't know much, but considering Decussate is blinkable, I don't see the smn advantage here over sam.

SAM is awful on Medusa / Gulool / Gurfurlur because of their slashing resistance. If Mountain Buster / Chaotic Strike are priviligied over Predator Claw / Spinning Dive on them it's for a good reason.

We are maybe limited by one strong attack every 46 sec but that doesn't necessarily mean a good SMN can't take the real role of DD and be able to outdmg others DDs on the parser against some HNMs.

[Silenka]

I remember putting up this argument months ago then getting bitched at because people disagreed and said "Oh but it's a hybrid".

Hybrids are good sometimes (for the situations mentioned in previous posts, the fights SMN is indispensable for, which are admittedly few). I don't recall your exact argument in the past so I'm not going to say anything about it. However, it's just human nature to defend something you're fond of... if you're a smn, you're allowed to pick at how useless/bad/whatever you find it, but if it's someone else criticizing, of course people are going to get up in arms about it. I don't want people to write smn off as a job that doesn't deserve a party slot, but contradictorily, I just did it. Likely because I feel the need to point out my own thoughts on the job and hope these criticisms get fixed somewhere along the line. Anyone is welcome to disagree with me, though, and I know some people do.

Being simultaneously happy and sad with SMN is just something that comes with the territory, if you happen to be someone who loves SMN.

[Thiefami]

Hybrids are good sometimes (for the situations mentioned in previous posts, the fights SMN is indispensable for, which are admittedly few). I don't recall your exact argument in the past so I'm not going to say anything about it. However, it's just human nature to defend something you're fond of... if you're a smn, you're allowed to pick at how useless/bad/whatever you find it, but if it's someone else criticizing, of course people are going to get up in arms about it. I don't want people to write smn off as a job that doesn't deserve a party slot, but contradictorily, I just did it. Likely because I feel the need to point out my own thoughts on the job and hope these criticisms get fixed somewhere along the line. Anyone is welcome to disagree with me, though, and I know some people do.

Being simultaneously happy and sad with SMN is just something that comes with the territory, if you happen to be someone who loves SMN.

I agree Silenka, that is why I have no real suggestions towards fixing the job, there are parts of it I love, and parts I absolutely hate. Maybe that is how the playerbase took it, but certain aspects of the mechanics need a good looking over and reconsideration.

[Zilong]

I am going call out zil on this, although not everyone does it in a 5 second melee burn.

But if you ask zil the last time he did sara were there more smn or sams he'd be lying if he chose the latter of the two.

on another side note, I do agree with the randomness of SMN damage and believe it should be adjusted.

If I had to do it again, I'd throw more SAM and make the SMN swap to RDM or WHM though!