SE being sued.

[Hosom]

sorry let me correct my statement. I want to view my billing information outside that god forsaken pos program that even they know sucks ass and are abandoning called PlayOnline.

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk200/Hosom/wut.jpg

You were saying?

[nitsuj]

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk200/Hosom/wut.jpg

You were saying?

He was saying he's a moderator and you've just been banned


Seriously though, poking fun at mods is so BG.

[Penthesilea]

I had long forgotten my password and was still subscribed so I called SE. Asked the rep on the phone to kill my 2 accounts with my credit card on them. Gave him my POL IDs, reg codes, address, the standard stuff they ask for and he said it was done. Yeah, I kept getting billed 2 months afterwards until I canceled my credit card.

Wish I coulda gotten in on that.

[Katlan]

read most of the pdf of the case here. Sounds like this idiot doesn't understand the concept of if you don't pay your bills your shit gets turned off. Many companies also tack on interest charges if your payment remains unpaid. don't see wtf this idiot's problem is. plus last i checked to start a class action suit there has to be several plantiff's involved all suing over the same issue not just one person. only name i saw in there as trying to start the class action suit is leong. someone correct me if i'm wrong here but i think i'm right on this one.

also taking business law atm lmfao

Its always one lead plaintiff, who speaks for "everyone else" of the potential class. You can't list hundreds of thousands of names for a class action, or attempt to locate all those ppl. It would be too costly and inefficient. But I agree w/you after reading the complaint. Sounds like he is trying to get them for everything, but mainly complaining about the late fee's and canceled account stuff.

Don't forget this is just a "complaint," and the class hasn't been certified yet. So there is no class action as of this moment, its just somebody trying to sue to SE.

[SubzeroDiabolos]

http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m...reenixview.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3227/...72a791e514.jpg

I'm late for the party, but

O M F G I never laughed so damn hard of my entire fucking life.

[vagus]

An interesting case i must say. I'm curious why there wasn't a lawsuit against SE for ownership of accounts. Which could have led to lawsuits for accounts lost during D-Day. As stupid as Leong's case may sound. If it does go to court, it could set a precedent for future cases concerning MMO's.

How do class action law suits work? If the case is won, other people can apply for part of the winning suit.

[Katlan]

How do class action law suits work? If the case is won, other people can apply for part of the winning suit.

No, one person "speaks for the class" per say. If they win, then everyone who is part of the class (based on a list of ppl provided by SE) gets a small percentage of the winnings. You ever get a random check from some random atty for something before... like a check for a few dollars or maybe 30-50$? Odd's are you have no idea there is even a class action on "X" matter, but since you are defined as part of the class you get a "reward." Don't fool yourself though, the benefits of a class action suit do not fall on the plaintiff or the class... lets say it got class certified and SE loses in the long run (w/may take years and years and years of settlement), you will probably get a check for marginal pocket change and so will the lead plaintiff. Lead plaintiff gets a little more since they were engaged in the litigation and served as the actual "plaintiff," but not even that person is gonna be walking to the bank w/ a giant smile lol. The lead plaintiff is not allowed to pursue class action litigation for any type of monetary reward, or get a pay out from the law firm. These types of motives for class action skew the person and it's considered immoral.

Put it this way, when my firm flies clients out for depositions... the client doesnt get any money, the firm pays for their hotel, travel, ect... but can't even take the person out for dinner socially and "pay for the bill." Well you can, but if it's considered any form of pampering (for ex) you just lost your lead plaintiff/class action suit. The real rewards for class action cases come via attorney fee's, w/only the law firm see's

[Ziero]

While I will agree that most of this case is unfounded, if they spin it right they might actually be able to accomplish something. The following things are founded, and may actually be able to hold up in court.

*Being permabanned for a simple payment issue.

*False Advertising and Misrepresentation or Hiding of critical information. (Such as some people banned recently not even being allowed to inquire about why they got banned) And if they really want to spin it and drag Absolute Virtue into this, that is the perfect example of this, with SE having said for years that Absolute Virtue could be beaten, everybody was just doing it wrong.

Other things that can be construed as False Advertising and/or Hiding Critical Information as well, from little things such as gear stats' exact effect on character performance, to much bigger things such as SE's GMs not being able to answer fuck-all about fuck-all.

Some of this (not all) could hold up very well in court if it's represented right. Not like it's going to make it that far, because SquareENIX is going to settle this out of court, or at least attempt to. And that's a fact.

Actually, none of that could hold up at all in court. Hiding stats in a game is not "critical information". Hiding the fact that they charge you 12 bucks a month is. Except, they don't hide that fact. Saying a monster that has been beaten (although questionable methods were used) can be beaten isn't false advertising. And being perma banned for any reason is well within their legal right and you agree to that right with every single log in.

Whatever happened to that lawsuit against SE about not being able to cancel online from a website or something and that if you uninstalled FFXI/POL you couldn't unsubscribe and all that BS. I recall it led to a law in some flyover state and all the online press was like lulz, FFXI banned in some state.

It wasn't so much of a lawsuit as it was more of a legislative act. Some governor's kid deleted PoL and FFXI without canceling his account and they wrote up a frivolous law that you had to have a readily accessible way to cancel an account for an online game or some such. But in the end, since SE does have an accessible way to cancel accounts, there was really nothing done to SE about it.

there is no law to it. The ToS can say anything, but if the law says otherwise they would be forced to follow it, or not sell their product there.

You agree to a legally binding contract each time you sign in and if you make a stink over it SE will just throw that contract back at you.

I think the plaintiff won that case and SE had to be more explicit on POL as to how to cancel.

There was no case and SE didn't do squat.

When push comes to shove, this case will amount to nothing. It will never go to court, it will never be settled and it will never even make it to a judge. All the points they raise in the case are clearly pointed out on the game's case, all over the official site, inside the manual that comes with the game and in depthly detailed in the ToS you agree to upon creating your account. The lawyers who agreed to take this case must be real shysters who think they can win a quick settlement on a frivolous suit with no real weight behind it, because as any lawyer knows, big companies would rather settle a case quickly and quietly then go to court and fight.

And for those of you who complain about being double billed, why don't you all learn from this example and do something about it yourselves. I'm sure BG has plenty of people in law school or with a law degree that could possibly make an actual case out of it. It would at least be more productive then pissing into the wind like everyone here does so often.

[Rafbacca]

Does the ToS indicate they can double bill you?

[liquinas]

I've been double charged before (many occasions actually). Actually, recently, it happened to me. My wife and I both have an account with 1 content ID and we ordered the password authenticator. So with the math, that is 12.95x2 and 9.99x2 which is approx. $46. Well, my account was charged $68 and when I called SE, of course, they rattled off the "we don't have a way to give you a credit or money back, please contact your CC company". So I did and the bank reversed the funds. I go to login, LM-17 but at least I didn't have to pay any reactivation fees (none that I've seen yet).

Hard to define what is legal or not in a global operation that spans many different rules of law, but that type of shit has to be at least 3 types of illegal somewhere (like entrapment, fraud, or something).

Also the above scenario seems to be overlooked a lot when it seems to be the basis of the whole lawsuit/case in point here.

[Pikarya]

Does the ToS indicate they can double bill you?

Double billing no, but "duping" your bill. Yes

[Katlan]

Does the ToS indicate they can double bill you?

Go look at the ToS, it's under the Playonline policy: #It indicates they can charge late fee's until the account is paid in full; #That they bill at the first of the month for the next month and the previous month (if unpaid); #ect... So if you re-active your account, u will get double billed (one for the month u activated & again for the next month).

[Kriz]

Lol, Consumerist covered this news and used an amazing picture
Consumerist - Game Publisher Square Enix Slapped With Class Action Suit For False Advertising, 'Product Enrichment' - Video Games
http://cache.gawker.com/assets/image...06/fantasy.png

[Ohaigaiz]

Go look at the ToS, it's under the Playonline policy: #It indicates they can charge late fee's until the account is paid in full; #That they bill at the first of the month for the next month and the previous month (if unpaid); #ect... So if you re-active your account, u will get double billed (one for the month u activated & again for the next month).

my account has been charged for 2 months while being active twice so far. the first time i called SE and the rep said that SE had to charge for double the cost of one month and that the next month there wouldn't be a charge because they actually needed the extra money.

this same thing has happened back in march and i didn't get billed in april. i've never payed late on my account either.

one thing i do know for sure is that no matter when you activate your account the 12.95 will be withdrawn once the account is reactivated. this means they can charge you on the 29th of a month and then they recharge you on the 1st of the very next month.

[Olo401]

He was saying he's a moderator and you've just been banned

I know you're joking here, but I'll just say it - Tekki is an idiot and a horrible mod, and there are trolls who contribute more to the discussions here than he does. And I don't give a shit if I get lolBG points or a tempban for saying it either because it's the goddamn truth.

On-topic - Why does everyone keep saying that this is not about double billing? The second point mentioned by the plaintiff in the court filing is "Monthly fees to play the online games" - it's not 100% clear but double billings would certainly fall under that claim. Whether the plaintiff can prove that in court is another story.

[Hosom]

He was saying he's a moderator and you've just been banned

lol, he can ban me... doesn't change the fact that 1. I'm right and 2. most people start saying that there isn't a way to cancel your account online/update billing info/etcetc...and in fact, it's pretty easy to find on...who'd have guessed it...FFXI's main website page.

[TacoTaru]

my account has been charged for 2 months while being active twice so far. the first time i called SE and the rep said that SE had to charge for double the cost of one month and that the next month there wouldn't be a charge because they actually needed the extra money.

this same thing has happened back in march and i didn't get billed in april. i've never payed late on my account either.

This and failure to charge me for the previous month are the only cases in which I have been double billed ever.

[ringthree]

I think the plaintiff won that case and SE had to be more explicit on POL as to how to cancel.

POIDH

[Gergall]

POIDH

I tried to google the case and the first hit I got back was this thread.

Where are the BG forum gurus who always say to use the search function? Can anyone find the thread for that older case?

[ringthree]

The problem with double billing I believe is based on the fact that they charge for any amount of the month that you play no matter how small. You get billed for the portion of the previous month and the next month on the next months cycle. This is not double billing per se, they just don't prorate the previous partial month. You will notice this usually happens after a deactivation/reactivation.

Has anyone gotten double billed without a break in service.

Tanaka even indicated this situation exists and said that is why FFXIV is going to a 30 day cycle.