Dynamis rant(well partially)

[terranova]

Does it ever rattle your nerves when you lose lot/cant lot on an AF that's for your main job?

RDMs go through this all the time I think. I've had Duelist Tabard snatched from me in that same manner last year. Nevermind that I always brought RDM to dynamis, while the relic hordes would never touch it, be it exp or otherwise. 50 beau runs later, nope it never dropped again.

What i'm saying is, if I'm SCH, and I bring it to dynamis, thats the gear Im going to be lotting for. There is no point in me lotting WAR if I'm never going to level it, much less bring it to Dynamis.

Though I can't really complain about it in my shell since it's run that way.. but damn. Thankfully its set up where points are required to lot at northlands, so I dont have to worry about having my SCH body snatched from me as I'll have more points.(I hope).

On a side note, Mahatma slops > SCH Relic pants.

That Dark Magic +7 would help for my macro though.

And no if RDM body drops/Hat drops, I'm only going to want it if no other RDM(unlikely) needs them. I don't play RDM anymore so I don't really care about it.

Oh well.

I have no idea if this should be in advanced or not. I don't even know what it means to post something advanced.

[Kipling]

Join a new dynamis shell.

[stewie]

Join a new dynamis shell.

This pretty much.

[Zosi]

Join a new dynamis shell.

For emphasis.

I've done Dynamis since I was a 70ish BRD, I've been BRD, BLM, RDM and SAM mains (attending on those jobs nearly all the time) in several different Dynamis shells, and I've collected several full sets over the ~300 runs I've done. I don't ever recall being angry at someone who outlotted, outbid or otherwise beat me to obtaining a piece of AF2. The secret? I trust the loot system to reward the effort that I put in. If you don't have that trust, then you're in the wrong shell. It really is that simple.

[Xavierus]

Having spent over a year as an officer for a rather large dynamis shell, I would have to believe that the person lotting against you for a piece of gear was eqaully qaulified for the said piece. Even if they do not attend the dynamis runs regularly as that job, it does not mean that they do not use the job on their own time. Shells i've participated in for dynamis and other similar events like to reward members who attend and display devotion to a shell - if you feel that your shell is unfairly giving other people pieces of armor, you should look for another shell. Just my two cents.

[Silenka]

Join a new dynamis shell.

I joined large dynamis shells and I was never happy in them (though I tried to convince myself I was). Point systems are retarded, the only way to go for me in dynamis is a small shell with a 'if you can wear it you can lot it' system, anything else is FAIL.

[Dammerung]

Point systems are the best way to do Dynamis, as long as you make sure to put fire under slackers or boot them out.

The only people who say point systems are retarded are those that don't want to put in their time to get AF. Or the system itself is set up in a retarded fashion, but there are plenty of simple point systems that work well.

[Hosom]

The whole idea that people should only lot something that's pretty inconsiderate to long time members. Basically, what you're saying is, that because I go to every Dynamis as Pld, due to the fact that that's what I'm needed on, I should be punished and not allowed to lot Rdm AF2 because I am a decent member and go the job I'm needed?

I'm aware that you're talking about something on a much larger scale, I personally know a Maat's Cap holder who goes out of his way to lot AF2 he'll never use.

Something to think about: you might want to consider a points system that can't be taken advantage of. (they're like unicorns don't exist...sound pretty cool...and it's generally pointless to seek one out...the more rules there are the more loopholes there are to be found).

[Zosi]

"You can wear it, you lot it" is a disaster of a system. Even if you boot people who show up to leech, it's basically relying on randomness to ensure fairness. Someone could have 100% attendance, show up on RDM every run and do an amazing job, and they could still lose lot on a RDM hat a dozen times because half the shell has RDM leveled and wants one. That kind of brain-dead system is what leads to threads like these.

Assuming that you perform the same "housekeeping" of removing slackers, a points system makes sure that the people who contribute the most are rewarded the most. You can't control drop rates, but if you put in the time and effort, eventually you'll be at the head of the list, at the very least. That's the kind of security and motivation that keeps members and prevents drama.

As for lotting what you come as, there's no hard-and-fast rule on that that works. My philosophy has always been that people who are lotting a particular job should always be willing to be the first to come on that job if necessary. That doesn't mean that they should be on that job every run, but if I say "I need a RDM/DRK", every RDM main's hand should shoot up to volunteer.

[Korremar]

Point systems are the best way to do Dynamis, as long as you make sure to put fire under slackers or boot them out.

The only people who say point systems are retarded are those that don't want to put in their time to get AF. Or the system itself is set up in a retarded fashion, but there are plenty of simple point systems that work well.

This. Both of our shells run on a points system, and both work fairly well IMO.

[Zosi]

I should add that /point systems can work fine too for some groups. I don't prefer them for pickup/public Dynamis, because people joining a public shell rarely have the kind of respect and trust in the leadership that it takes for a /point system to operate without drama. I just can't stand systems that completely ignore hard work and let the dice determine who gets all the shiny loot. There's enough of that in Square's FFXI, we don't need to emulate them in our player-designed systems.

[Yugl]

On a side note, Mahatma slops > SCH Relic pants.

That Dark Magic +7 would help for my macro though.

I don't get it? Relic pants are only for Dark Magic in which case, Relic > Mahats (Since INT doesn't affect Dark Magic).

[SnickySnacks]

Had a similar issue with my last Dynamis LS.

Friend of mine had *only* RDM at 75, after a year he'd gotten maybe 2 pieces of relic, while in that time people joined or leveled RDM to 75 and scooped up hats and tabards left and right.

On the other hand, a bunch of us in the LS hoovered up relic like nobody's business with their multiple 75s...many for jobs we never use (hi2u full set of NIN and SAM relic).

[Pendulum]

True story: we got 3 chapeaus last night and 2 of them went freelot.

[Snprphnx]

my shell has been doing dynamis for over 2 years now, through ups and downs with attendance. we have the system of 65+ can lot in city, 74 in glacier, 75 in xarca, 75 on accessories. We have THF, PLD, RDM and BLM reserved for those who want it and have the highest attendance. While the system does have its downfalls, all systems do. but honestly, after 2 years, almost all city drops are freelot, and i would say over 1/2 the northlands drops are freelot to those with the job 50+.

an additional true story!! this past sundays xarca dropped 2 PLD bodies. first went sole lot to the person with highest attendance. second had 2 lotters, one rolled a 6, the other a 44.

[Silenka]

True story: we got 3 chapeaus last night and 2 of them went freelot.

True story: we got 2 thf hands and one of them went freedrop.

Whoever said you can wear it you can lot it is a retarded system hasn't been in a small (talking 10-20 people) shell that does dynamis before. People rarely get screwed or feel bad because they know that either they're going to get the next one that drops or they deferred their lotting rights to someone else who wanted it more. I've been in 2 shells that have handled dynamis this way; one was much larger at one point, the other much smaller, but both of them worked perfectly fine that way.

I've also been in 2 or 3 shells that worked on a points or partial points system. I did not like partial points (accumulate points and put them down before the run to designate a certain piece to have rights to), and I did not like full point system either, because often the people who had points to lot the rare stuff were lazy/stupid assholes who didn't contribute or who aggro'd everything all the time.

So no, for me points system doesn't work too well for the simple fact that really undeserving people end up getting really rare loot a lot of times. You can say 'join a shell whose leader prunes the bad apples' but I don't really think that happens most of the time, I think the loser people get the benefit of the doubt most of the time and end up staying. If you have a 'you can wear, you can lot' system, you can at least tell when the people around you think you deserve a piece less than someone else in the shell and make a judgment for yourself. If you're up for a piece in a points system, no one is going to be able to question it or raise an objection, it's much more final and members just have to deal with it, which sucks IMO.

[Zosi]

Typical, you completely discount the possibility of "bad apples" in your own group - in a wearable lot system, if someone is greedy, there's nothing except their own conscience stopping them from lotting when other people feel that they don't deserve it. The problems you claim belong to your hypothetical points system are a result of letting the bad apples run rampant. You wouldn't do it in your low-man group, but you seem perfectly content to assume that everyone in the points LS is evil, greedy and only out for themselves. Pruning those "bad apples" is an integral part of either system - neither works well without it.

[Panthera]

While the system does have its downfalls, all systems do.

^ This.

One problem with point systems though is you're relying on the stability of shell. The fact is, shells are not static; they are institutions with people coming and going, and a problem arises in particular when the powers that be resign, and if the shell will live on under new leadership, AND if the new adminstartion follows its predecessor's policies verbatim. Shells can also collapse if members leave en-mass, or when leaders act unscrupulously. Now, that's not to say that point systems are bad or that some other system is better, only that point systems are problematic, especially with new players getting intimidated by veterans' standings.

The "lot as what you go as" seems silly, though. That would create a situation where one could have 10 Red Mages, or 6 white Mages, and not the jobs that are actually needed. The "if you can wear it, lot it," system does favor those with more 75s, as they have more chances at lotting, so that system is not unbiased. Going back to point systems, those able to attend once a week find themselves never able to catch up, because they are being rewarded (or NOT reward) comparatively to others. /Point systems in a sage's hands are well and good, but in a fools hands they are unfair at best, ludicrous at worst.

Really, the impossibility of a perfect loot distribution system has less to do with player linkshell policy design, and much more to do with game design. On a similar scale as Dynamis, Einherjar takes these issues out of player hands and puts the control where it should be; in the game's hands. Accessories are purchased with Therion Ichor, so it doesn't matter who you go with or how often; you can switch days or times and go with whomever, and the points carry over. It's about how much work YOU put in, not what just so happens to drop, and who has senority, etc. It's too bad that the Abjurations don't follow in that vein. Maybe with FFXIV, SE will have a clean slate to work with.

[Eldelphia]

I prefer a points system and one run openly. Sure if I were doing Dynamis with only a group of friends of up to around 12, it might work to have peeps lot whatever but I guarantee you in even in the closest groups there will be headaches.

We run it so that if you skip 3 runs in a row, you incur a minor lotting penalty. So you don't get to lot your main unless the others there have it/don't want. You still get to lot stuff that comes up for open lot.

In the cities, any main lotters can lot as long as they have points. In the Icelands and CoP overall points come into it. After 11 months of dynamis we find a lot of stuff comes up open lot now, even only going once a week.

Peeps have come and gone but on the whole we've avoided drama.

[Farseer]

The last shell I was in before the one I'm in now, had a bunch of people who would refuse to play anything but DDs in dynamis, using the "I have no gear for rdm or blm or whm so i cant play them" yet they would still walk away with Chapeaus ._. Some point system dynamis suck >_>