Dynamis rant(well partially)

[Zosi]

While I realize that it sucks if someone can only make one run a week, you have to look at it from the shell's perspective. They're simply not contributing as much as the people who make both runs. Why should they have equal chances at loot? Should someone have equal chances at loot if they can only make... one run every two weeks? One run every month? One run every three months? You have to draw the line somewhere, but a DKP system gives you a nice numerical way of assessing each how much each person attends, at least.

As for the "lotting for jobs you don't have geared up", that doesn't have much to do with points or wearable. Either system is theoretically vulnerable if you don't have some kind of main lot rule where a person would have to have RDM available for Dynamis if they wanted to lot RDM AF. Most LSs I've been in, points or not, have had some rule of that type. I'll admit that a /point system handles this particular problem the best since the leaders should know who actually plays the job, but that breaks down if the leaders don't know the members well, or if the members don't trust the leaders to make decisions like that.

[MaachaQ]

My dynamis shell has a points system and also a "target job." Basically you put in your /seacom before the run what job's AF you want to lot, or synth mats. If you bid an item (we bid before the run, not during, to save time), you can only lot that item unless something else goes open to 65+. Items only go 65+ if noone has that job in their /seacom as primary target. If there are no hits at 65+, it goes to 60+, 55+, etc. If an item that was bid before the run drops, any other drops of that same item are open to those with that job in their /seacom, then 65+, etc. Also, you can't lot anything until your 2nd run with the shell (unless a leader tells you that you can, like if an AF goes open lot), and if you miss more than 2 runs in a row you cannot lot until 65+. If you bid an AF or have an AF in /seacom, you cannot lot synth items (mainly bastok is the problem here, wootzs having gone back up in price again). It has worked pretty well for us, with relatively little drama.

[Shenrien]

Join a new dynamis shell.

qft

[ahnalia]

Our dynamis linkshell works on a points system too, but you also have the opportunity to "dream piece" a special piece of relic that you really want for any job you have leveled, and reserve it to where only you (or people with the same amount of points that also have it selected as a dream piece) can lot it.
After you get your dream piece, you can set another, and start building up points for that one.
This will 100% guarantee that with a little loyalty to the linkshell, you will have 100% lotting rights on the relic pieces you want the most.
I love the system, and it has worked extremely well for us.

[terranova]

Like I said I can't really complain about it in my shell because of the way the rules are setup. I could have SWORN no one else listed SCH as one of the jobs they wanted to lot on. I was paying close attention to the people listing their AFs.. Then when it drops, Im suddenly not the only person up for lotting it o_o.

This is our lot rules;

City runs - no points system. You simply list 2 AFs you wish to lot on. I feel bad for the RDMs in this case because pretty much the whole damn shell wants RDM af ^^;;; The disadvantage here is, John Dow can miss all runs in 2 weeks, but come back for week 3 and gank gear from someone in a lot.

Northlands - points system, which makes sense kinda. Im confident with this because I know I'll attend every run, and I'm already number 2 on the list in terms of total.

Im just mad because, everyone was like "cg" and next thing you know, I'm out lotted by someone out of nowhere. "What...?".

As for joining another shell, I'm gonna wait on that. I happen to like the shell as a whole, it's a lot better than the one I left. We don't wipe 4-5 times a run. The real deal will come with northlands, I think this is where drama might spring up.

I don't get it? Relic pants are only for Dark Magic in which case, Relic > Mahats (Since INT doesn't affect Dark Magic).

Yes and no.

That fact just helps me deal with the loss of the AF. I would use the relic for my dark magic macros, but its not something I would full time. For nuking, I would use mahatma obviously.(INT+8 vs INT+5)

[Kriz]

Dynamis is just drama waiting to happen.

What's your opinions on this:
LS members random for the right to drop 500k on a zone, claim one drop as theres first, and that's it. Coins still go to the bank. If your AF doesn't drop, you're out 500k. If all you want is THF, and the sponsor claims it, oops, lul, hope for two to drop.

Of course, I've seen favoritism steal a RDM hat before, pretty much because the top lotter wasn't one of the cool kids. While it gets use, it went to a tertiary RDM over a main one.

Dynamis is a horrible thing. LS dynamis seems like a dangerous idea when it's just- if you can wear it, you can lot it. I'm lucky in that I'm barely around for Dynamis.

[euph]

I tried to think of something to say in regards to lotting in dynamis but its just too dumb to touch.

so instead this is what ill say!

LolDynamis

[Braeden]

The only valid dynamis rant is why these fucktards haven't made it so that multiple shells can do the same zone at one time. Try doing dynamis the same time an days for two years only for 5 shells to abruptly start entering one hour earlier than you effectively forcing you to move to a different day. Now that's something to rant about.

As already mentioned if you don't like the drop system gtfo and get another shell

[Yugl]

Yes and no.

That fact just helps me deal with the loss of the AF. I would use the relic for my dark magic macros, but its not something I would full time. For nuking, I would use mahatma obviously.(INT+8 vs INT+5)

If you're talking about a nuke piece then of course Mahats > Relic legs, but since it wasn't specified, I thought I should clear that up in case.

[Heie]

Without going into a long post I will just post the link to rules of the dynamis shell I lead. The rules are very different then pretty much any rules you have seen. It has worked great for us so far as it promotes everyone who comes to keep coming and really makes our dynamis shell feel like a static.

Ultima Dynamis Rules - Ultima Linkshell

[Teorem]

We don't implement a points system in our linkshell, and have been running just fine for a while now. Occasionally we do have people who do end up waiting a longer period of time, but we do have mechanics within our lotting systems to overcome that. We also intentionally implement obstacles to overcome (minimum attendance rules factored into lotting ability) to discourage those who really don't intend to stay with the linkshell for long at all.

It really helps for us that we're a mature linkshell--in both linkshell age and the quality of the membership--that we have a substantial core of members who have been with us a long time and aren't selfish, and that we run a diverse schedule to try and address everyone's equipment wants.

With the drop rate adjustments in the zones, it's really not worth getting upset about losing a lot on something if your linkshell runs Dynamis on a regular basis. It will drop again eventually, and even if it takes substantial time to do so, it allows you to build up points or make your case for lotting exclusivity, however your linkshell's rules are set up.

[Silenka]

Typical, you completely discount the possibility of "bad apples" in your own group - in a wearable lot system, if someone is greedy, there's nothing except their own conscience stopping them from lotting when other people feel that they don't deserve it. The problems you claim belong to your hypothetical points system are a result of letting the bad apples run rampant. You wouldn't do it in your low-man group, but you seem perfectly content to assume that everyone in the points LS is evil, greedy and only out for themselves. Pruning those "bad apples" is an integral part of either system - neither works well without it.

Bit late, but regardless:

Large (40+ regular member) shells don't prune in my experience. They accept pretty much any idiot who applies, and they proceed to win AF over well-geared players. They put in 'more time' and get their points, however, the time is not quality time compared to a well-geared good player. A person who causes a lot of problems/links and doesn't play their jobs well winning relic over someone who attends a bit less due to rl but does a better job is, in my opinion, benefiting from an extremely flawed system. There's also the issue of leaders fudging points and other flaws that everyone is aware of. In my opinion, points systems just aren't fun at all, nor do they accomplish what they set out to do, which is fairness.

Smaller shells, on the other hand, can afford to use a wear/lot system because the pruning does happen (quite regularly). Large shells work just fine without kicking anyone because their strategies tend to be 'throw bodies at it until the mob dies', and bad members can blend into the crowd with no one the wiser. In a strategy-based tiny (10-20 people) LS, everyone must pull their weight equally or get booted. It's very noticeable if someone is not performing up to snuff. A points system would be impractical in such a close environment - everyone would have so many points (because the shell cannot do runs without close to all of its members) that anyone new coming in would never get to lot. There would be so much junk relic that no one would want to spend points on that the runs would be almost not worth doing. Everyone would save up for 1 piece that would be extensively fought over and there would be a lot more bad feelings.

I'm not saying that the large shells have evil greedy people any more than I'm saying that lowman shells are full of saints. Of course they're not. However, a large shell is much harder to mediate and because of its largeness everyone is not going to be of the same...moral fiber. It's much more difficult to be a face in the crowd in a lowman shell and therefore if you lot everyone generally knows whether you deserve it or not, and it might stay your hand if you feel you don't. You don't so much look out for the betterment of your peers when there are so many gimp people around you it doesn't matter who wins, and I know for a fact that when I was in those large shells run by point systems all I cared about is getting that ONE piece of relic I was allowed to lot, and constantly finding myself not able to.

tl;dr spending years in a large points shell, or even any shell with a points system, just trying to get one piece of relic is retarded, you're better off finding a small shell that does a wear/lot system so you can actually get relics.

[Zosi]

You claim to deny it, but you continue to assume that points = greedy and evil and wearable lot = honest and considerate. It pervades your entire post. It's not even worth arguing with you if you're going to be that intellectually dishonest. Look, I'm sorry that you've had bad experiences with points LSs, but just like you feel that your system works best for your group, there are a lot of groups that use points and don't have the issues you seem to think necessarily happen in every points LS. The OP clearly does NOT seem to think that wearable lot is for him - it sounds like he'd prefer a situation where he's actually working for some kind of lotting status rather than just rolling the dice and losing over and over.

[Drex]

It's really easy to fudge lotting rights when they aren't recorded anywhere, and relying on SE's /random system on a lot between a new retard and someone who has been a reliable member for years is never "fair".

They all have their pros and cons, so it comes down to "if you don't like their lotting system, go somewhere else". I personally would hate a "lot if you can equip" only shell, so I avoided them. Dynamis LSes are dime-a-dozen, it's not like you're trapped where you are.

[Zane]

Reading these posts really surprises me...

I'm currently in a rather large Dynamis shell. 40+ Regular members, ~50 some on the roster. We have a very fair lotting system which has had few to no complaints over all the years the shell has been running. We keep track of every single person who attends, every single drop any one obtains, and every single last gil that goes towards purchasing glasses.

While it's a bit complicated, I'll try to explain lotting as simply as possible. If you miss two runs in a row, you cannot main lot until you attend runs again. For City/CoP zones, you simply choose a main lot and sub lot. If your main lot drops, you lot. If no ones Main Lotting, it goes to Sub Lot tier by level. (I.E. 70+ first, then 60+, then 50+, etc.) If neither main nor Sub lotted, it goes to free lot by tier.

For Snow zones, every one that is interested in Snow AF has to declare a main lot on the site. Attendance is taken on a 16 run rotation. Priority for lotting a piece is determined on your Attendance, and only the top two may lot on one piece of AF. (So, if you have 3 People on Rdm Hat, 16/16, 15/16, and 14/16, only the 16/16 and 15/16 can lot on it.) For tied attendance, Seniority is taken into account. Seniority is set based on the week you joined the shell, and is reset to the week where you obtain a main AF lot. (So if you joined on week 90, and you received an AF on week 138, your new seniority is 138.) Finally, if you aren't in top 2 for lotting a piece of AF if it falls, you may lot a 100 if it drops. You may still also sub lot an item, and Sub and free lotting are the same as City/CoP Zones.

This may sound a bit complicated, but it works beautifully. Having a good set of people to run with is also a huge plus. Despite the size of the LS, for the most part nearly all of us get along with everyone else in the shell. There are few loot whores, and most AF just goes to Free lot or Free Drop. We've been effective enough to have a shell with 40 - 50 members, averaging between 4 - 5 jobs each have almost every single piece of AF they want for every single job they posses. Needless to say, I feel blessed to be a part of such an awesome group.

[Silenka]

You claim to deny it, but you continue to assume that points = greedy and evil and wearable lot = honest and considerate. It pervades your entire post. It's not even worth arguing with you if you're going to be that intellectually dishonest. Look, I'm sorry that you've had bad experiences with points LSs, but just like you feel that your system works best for your group, there are a lot of groups that use points and don't have the issues you seem to think necessarily happen in every points LS. The OP clearly does NOT seem to think that wearable lot is for him - it sounds like he'd prefer a situation where he's actually working for some kind of lotting status rather than just rolling the dice and losing over and over.

I'm not being dishonest. At least on Siren that's how the linkshells here are. There are nothing but complaints all around about our big points-based dynamis shells, but people join them anyway just because there's not a whole lot that's easy to get into that isn't one of those shells. If those kinds of shells are better on other servers, good for you guys, glad it works for you. I'm just relating my own findings and judgments based on what I've experienced here.

[JigglyJam]

In the dynamis shell I'm in, we don't have a points system but it's worked out well for us.

Job has to be 70+ to lot. Before each dynamis, a member specifies only one relic he/she wants to lot. If said piece drops, that member lots. If they win, they are then placed on "cool down" for the next two dynamis runs they attend. (They cannot specify a relic to lot and can only lot on relic that goes freelot i.e. nobody stated they wanted before dynamis started). Freelot priority goes to 70+ first then 60+ etc.

Different strokes for different folks.

[Katarzyna]

I never liked point systems.

I'm currently part of a public dynamis shell. The original intent was to help the leader get his relic, while the AF went to everyone else. It's grown since then, and he plans on continuing the shell after he gets his relic.

Basically, you set your first and second priority. If it drops, you lot. If you win the roll, it's yours. It really doesn't get much simpler than that. They ask if you have the job 70+ to lot, but if you're a regular member and they know you're leveling the job in good faith, they will let you lot. (Unless it's a coveted piece, like RDM, BLM or PLD. Those seem to be the most popular) Just last night, I was permitted to lot on DRK body even though it's 42, because they know I'm going to level it. (I had it as a second priority with a note saying I was last priority. Someone came late and wanted it, so they won the lot.)

We've had a few bad apples who got the piece they wanted and then left. Hell, one dude even won the lot for his WAR piece, said he had to go, and force dc'ed himself before the piece dropped to him, and it went to a member who actually wants to see the shell succeed and comes to ever run. Epic lulz on that one. But those people, we don't worry about. We have enough of a core group to keep going. And the leader always thanks us at the end of each dynamis run, even if we fail our goal. (Like our attestation run last night) He always tells us we did a good job and the best we could, thanks us, and says "Hope to see you next run." To me, that goes a long way. A lot of LS leaders tend to forget that it's their MEMBERS, not their ass kissers, that get them that far.

Our LS is mostly comprised of new people who don't have enough experience to get into big end game shells, or people who have been around the block several times and sick and tired of the bullshit, biased point systems, and ass kissing that goes on in other shells. It works quite well for us, and we've been very successful. So not all open and public dynamis shells are doomed to failure.

[Eldelphia]

One thing that we absolutely hold people to is that if they want to lot for a particular job, they have to be prepared to bring it to dynamis. If they ever refuse to bring it, they're no longer eligible to lot that job. Only had one issue ever with it, the person quit. To which there was a huge sigh of relief.

Peeps like that there is a public spreadsheet that they can view and check whenever they want to. We split gil because no one in the shell is realistically going to upgrade and we make it clear to applicants that if they want to upgrade, we're not the shell for them. We're simply trying to keep our members in gil and decent(ish) gear.

[Yugl]

I never liked point systems.

I'm currently part of a public dynamis shell. The original intent was to help the leader get his relic, while the AF went to everyone else. It's grown since then, and he plans on continuing the shell after he gets his relic.

You mean he plans on getting another relic after he gets his relic.

They ask if you have the job 70+ to lot, but if you're a regular member and they know you're leveling the job in good faith, they will let you lot. (Unless it's a coveted piece, like RDM, BLM or PLD. Those seem to be the most popular)

And the leader always thanks us at the end of each dynamis run, even if we fail our goal. (Like our attestation run last night) He always tells us we did a good job and the best we could, thanks us, and says "Hope to see you next run." To me, that goes a long way. A lot of LS leaders tend to forget that it's their MEMBERS, not their ass kissers, that get them that far.

Sure it doesn't seem that way when you forget he's using you to get relic currency.

Our LS is mostly comprised of new people who don't have enough experience to get into big end game shells, or people who have been around the block several times and sick and tired of the bullshit, biased point systems, and ass kissing that goes on in other shells. It works quite well for us, and we've been very successful. So not all open and public dynamis shells are doomed to failure.

Look at the two bold points. What's more biased? A system that uses points based on attendance or a system that allows regular members to lot items they can't use because they're a "regular" member.