BG Legal: Search and Seizure

[Melchiah]

While I was across town from our office today, my boss took it upon himself to look for some missing truck keys. I had given him permission to look on my desk and in my desk drawers over the phone, however upon not finding them there he then searched both my car outside the building and my personal backpack, which was sitting beneath my desk. Both of these items of personal property were searched without my knowledge, consent or my presence.

As it happens, I had left my pistol in it's holster in one of the compartments of my backpack. Upon him seeing that, his immediate response was to run it up the chain of command.

This was an oversight on my part in leaving the item in my backpack and carrying it into the office. I understand that, and as soon as he told me he had looked in my backpack for the truck keys I remembered it was in there, and immediately returned to the office and used my lunch hour to remove the item from the premises.

There is a very very real possibility that I could lose my job over this, and I cannot find a satisfactory answer regarding my rights as they pertain to the 4th Amendment.

Anyone know where I might look, short of contacting a lawyer?

[Korietsu]

Contact a lawyer. Refer to my signature.

[Wintermute]

How/why did your boss have access to your car? Is it a company car or did he just go through your shit and decide not to stop at the backpack?

[FNH]

While I was across town from our office today, my boss took it upon himself to look for some missing project office truck keys. I had given him permission to look on my desk and in my desk drawers over the phone, however upon not finding them there he then searched both my car outside the building and my personal backpack, which was sitting beneath my desk. Both of these items of personal property were searched without my knowledge, consent or my presence.

As it happens, I had left my pistol in it's holster in one of the compartments of my backpack. Upon him seeing that, his immediate response was to mention it to first the Division EEO man, and then call the District Engineer(his immediate supervisor) about it.

This was an oversight on my part in leaving the item in my backpack and carrying it into the office. I understand that, and as soon as he told me he had looked in my backpack for the truck keys I remembered it was in there, and immediately returned to the office and used my lunch hour to remove the item from the premises.

There is a very very real possibility that I could lose my job over this, and I cannot find a satisfactory answer regarding my rights as they pertain to the 4th Amendment.

Anyone know where I might look, short of contacting a lawyer?

you aren't allowed to bring a weapon to work unless your are the owner

[Norellicus]

There's a big difference between "I have a gun that I'm bringing to work" and "I have a gun that I absentmindedly left in my backpack that gets brought to work, oops" (Edit: And besides that, he acknowledged that it was a mistake and isn't the point of his post)

Seek professional council, OP. This isn't something for the armchair division.

[FNH]

There's a big difference between "I have a gun that I'm bringing to work" and "I have a gun that I absentmindedly left in my backpack that gets brought to work, oops" (Edit: And besides that, he acknowledged that it was a mistake and isn't the point of his post)

I don't think it will save his job come time to defend himself.

[Norellicus]

Not the point

[FNH]

Not the point

it sure is.

[Silenka]

Real

Legal

Help

If you want to keep your job and not get pwned.

[NotGreyheim]

This wouldn't have happened if you had... oh wait...

[kyod]

The crux of your argument will hinge on whether you A) explicitly stated to just look through the desk and B) your boss,in good faith, interpreted your comments to mean just look through just your desk or look through all your things. In all honesty if you were very, very specific about just looking through your desk you have a very good case if they decide to fire you.

On the opposite side, depending on where you live and the concealed carry-laws, you might not even have a case if its illegal to bring a firearm to work.

THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE: If I were you I would look up the concealed carry law and if you are allowed to have a firearm at the workplace, you should be fine, provided it does not violate any sort of company policy, you should be safe (and you may have a civil rights, aclu case provided you want to pursue that route and specifically just said your desk). However if your company has a policy or your conceal carry-law does not allow for that in the workplace, you are fucked.

[FNH]

THIS IS NOT LEGAL ADVICE: If I were you I would look up the concealed carry law and if you are allowed to have a firearm at the workplace, you should be fine, provided it does not violate any sort of company policy, you should be safe (and you may have a civil rights, aclu case provided you want to pursue that route and specifically just said your desk). However if your company has a policy or your conceal carry-law does not allow for that in the workplace, you are fucked.

If he still lives in AL the concealed carry laws do not allow to carry on private property that is not your own. Including stores, workplace where you are not the owner, etc. According to 13A-11-52 of the Code of Alabama 1975.

[Jer]

There's places in Alabama where people don't want guns around?

But yea, how did he get into your car? Company car, left unlocked, or keys at your desk? Do you happen to have a CW permit, though if your work has explicit rules regarding firearms that may be moot I suppose. It would still look better than just having a gun, I'd think. And yea, real lawyering needed. :/

Edit: So you can ignore that, apparently FNH did some actual work.

[kyod]

If he still lives in AL the concealed carry laws do not allow to carry on private property that is not your own. Including stores, workplace where you are not the owner, etc. According to 13A-11-52 of the Code of Alabama 1975.

OP you might still have an ACLU sort of case if this is true and you did, infact, only and very specifically specified to look through your desk. Still, I would consult an attorney regardless if they did fire you. There could be loopholes in your state law that BG doesn't know about. It sucks that this could cost you your job, but you know what they say ignorance of the law being no excuse and all that jazz.

[FNH]

OP you might still have an ACLU sort of case if this is true and you did, infact, only and very specifically specified to look through your desk. Still, I would consult an attorney regardless if they did fire you. There could be loopholes in your state law that BG doesn't know about. It sucks that this could cost you your job, but you know what they say ignorance of the law being no excuse and all that jazz.

Except as otherwise provided in this article, no person shall carry a pistol about his person on premises not his own or under his control; but this section shall not apply to any sheriff or his deputy or police officer of an incorporated town or city in the lawful discharge of the duties of his office, or to United States marshal or his deputies, rural free delivery mail carriers in the discharge of their duties as such, bonded constables in the discharge of their duties as such, conductors, railway mail clerks and express messengers in the discharge of their duties.

depends on the interpretation of this AND the wording of any policy of the org he works at.

[Melchiah]

Look, I know I fucked up by not remembering to take the thing out of my backpack and put it back in the console of the car.

I'm perfectly willing to accept a write-up for this oversight.

The point here is that I feel that my civil right were violated by an unauthorized and unwarranted search of my personal belongings.

[Melchiah]

depends on the interpretation of this AND the wording of any policy of the org he works at.

The exception alluded to in that subsection is in any place where the owner has explicitly stated that firearms are not allowed.

The employee code of conduct does not explicitly disallow firearms, it only states under prohibited items:

"Possession or use of alchohol, narcotics or dangerous weapons."

[kyod]

Even if it was in your car, if it's parked in a company lot that's still the workplace (In terms of many ways the law gets interpreted).

Your case is weak (in my opinion, again, this is not any sort of legal advice), your backpack was under your desk and could be reasonably construed to be part of your permission to search the desk, so I'm not sure how that would play out. Your car, on the other hand, how did he get the keys to open it? Your boss looking through your car had no intent to cause harm and he didn't find anything to cause harm and was looking in good faith.

If you feel like continuing with a civil rights thing, contact your local ACLU.

Edit: A firearm is interpreted as a dangerous weapon. I'll try to find a case for you but I'm sure there are hundreds.

Edit2: Link to your Alabama Code: dangerous weapon is not specifically defined but dangerous instrument is (and imo based on your code dangerous weapon can be construed to be just that): http://law.justia.com/alabama/codes/13297/13a-1-2.html

[euph]

A handgun being a dangerous weapon...

is just your fuckin opinion, man.

[Cephius]

We had an issue with this at work, and though I'm certainly no legal expert or anything...

It's my understanding that anything and everything you bring into the workplace can be searched without a warrant or reason as long as it's not in a secured location with a reasonable expectation of privacy (ie, a locker or the like). I'm not sure a bag under your desk is something like that. It's the company's properties, you have a very limited amount of personal rights while you're under their roof.

Also, I'm sure the rules concerning firearms are much more lax in 'bama than they are in New Jersey, but did you have a permit to carry a holstered firearm outside of your home? At least here, failure to have that could land you in significant trouble with the law if they report it.

Anyway, I'd try to push the fact that you didn't grant permission to search your backpack and hope that it violated some kind of privacy law, though I doubt it does. I'd be incredibly apologetic as well, even if the company was at fault they have more than enough reason to fire you if they want to.