BLM, INT vs. MAB

[SephYuyX]

1 MAB and 10% Mcrit is more or less an equal trade, hardly a sacrifice.

While 1MAB and 10% MCrit is supposedly the same, this was in reference to the 2MAB augment on the MCD hat. So I was saying that out of 2MAB or 10%MCrit, which one would seem more likely people would pick. Youd lose 1MAB over time, but gain a nice epeen number 10% of the time (that is if 10% actually means 10% of the time).

[Kirschy]

I have to admit it's fun telling a PLD before B2 how much a Gigaflare will do to them in the run, and then nailing it when the time comes that he uses it.

I remember a while back there was an estimate on Baha's INT, MAB, and the D value for Mega/Giga. It seems you have the exact values though, do you mind sharing =o?

[Suiram]

It's not my own research, it's from Studio Gobli, but I came upon it a little over a year ago when there was a thread on Citadel Buster here and someone referenced that page. But subsequent runs I've done have all confirmed it whenever I've tried to use it to predict damage (except when we've used COR with tanks, for obvious reasons).

Anyway I dug it up, it's 115 INT, MAB+12 (1.12 total), and base damage is 1.5*dINT + 940/1316/1880 for mega/giga/terra.

[Lahan]

Thanks for all the BLM info BTW guys. I never even thought about the new hat and all that info has given me ideas too.

[Kirschy]

It's not my own research, it's from Studio Gobli, but I came upon it a little over a year ago when there was a thread on Citadel Buster here and someone referenced that page. But subsequent runs I've done have all confirmed it whenever I've tried to use it to predict damage (except when we've used COR with tanks, for obvious reasons).

Anyway I dug it up, it's 115 INT, MAB+12 (1.12 total), and base damage is 1.5*dINT + 940/1316/1880 for mega/giga/terra.

Thanks!! Can I bug you for CB too if you have it =x I remember it having a ton of MAB =p

[Suiram]

The CB stuff is actually not correct. It gives "correct enough" values (within 5~10 points of damage) but not exact. I tried to bug people for data around that time but eventually gave up. My most recent idea is that perhaps MAB is lower than the stated, but there's a subsequent modifier (like 2.00 MAB, with an additional 2x bonus after, instead of 4.00 MAB), but not enough data to investigate it thoroughly.

Anyway, here's the thread: http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/56406...el-buster.html

And the almost-correct formula is a little down on the first page, in VZX's post. I'm not sure what the Studio Gobli page URL is anymore since I recently reinstalled Firefox and killed my history, otherwise I'd link that, sorry.

[Kirschy]

Thanks exactly what I was looking for~

[Sifer]

Sifer, you're absolutely right that your method gives you a more exact answer, and I think it's what many people do when they know or can easily ascertain the INT of the thing they are fighting. What I was trying to do with my guideline above was something that people not well-versed in this topic can do more generally, since with some familiarity it will often provide answers like "INT always wins" or "MAB always wins" or "MAB wins on AM2 but INT wins on Tier 4" irrespective of the mob you're fighting. Also, if you do happen to know the INT of the target, you can still use it. For instance, if you have 110 INT (without staff), and the mob has 90 INT, you could use 750, 581, and 556, for AM2, Thunder 4, and Blizzard 4, respectively, in comparing with the x value that that computer algebra website gives you (556 for Bliz added 5 INT from staff).

hmmmm, my formula requires the player to know (or just assume) a value of the mobs INT but i still think yours is kinda lengthy :X

If you wanted to figure out the "range" at which one of the pieces is better than the other you could just equate the formula i posted to itself with one of the 2 peices on each side and solve for DINT. MAB should always win if DINT was higher than the result and INT should always win if DINT was lower than the result. And even if the player didnt know the exact INT of the mob I just assume the player can take a reasonable guess like "it cant be higher than 120".

looking at your formula closely its really very similar to mine, main difference is that mine is spell specific so it reduces the confusion abit.

[Sifer]

And regarding the CB stuff, I read that page on studio gobli before and was very interesting but then my ISP blocked babelfish for a long duration for some reason. its unblocked now, anyone has studio gobli's address?

EDIT: NVM found it on VZX's page

[Michelob]

While 1MAB and 10% MCrit is supposedly the same, this was in reference to the 2MAB augment on the MCD hat. So I was saying that out of 2MAB or 10%MCrit, which one would seem more likely people would pick. Youd lose 1MAB over time, but gain a nice epeen number 10% of the time (that is if 10% actually means 10% of the time).

The trade off of 2 MAB for 10% Mcrit is worse than that of 1 INT for 3% Mcrit on the Wise strap. Of course, you still see silly people wearing the Wise strap anyways, so I'm sure you will see some people wearing a 10% Mcrit augment on their hats too.

[Sifer]

question about Mcrits. do Mcrits stack with resists? or can they never happen on resists? if they cant, which one takes priority over the other? if Mcrits had prority then i can see a use for the 10% crit.

[Michelob]

I believe an Mcrit proc just adds 10 MAB to the nuke. I don't see why this wouldn't figure the same way 10 MAB from gear would, so my guess is a resist can still happen with an Mcrit. This would be a very hard thing to test, though.

[Rocl]

I almost positive a resisted nuke can still crit. I swear I've seen a half resist do more damage than normal occasionally. It makes being resisted a little more bearable. Just a little.

[Lekotas]

Three things

1)regarding the mcrit hat, technically speaking combining it with witch sash and wise strap gives a total of +16% mcrit which somewhat raises the amount it will proc enough to justify it, but unless I'm reading it wrong on the PoL website you can combine the mcrit bonus with the int+macc bonus

thus the resulting hat would have:

+20MP +3Conserve MP
Augmented:
INT+4 Macc+2 M. crit hit rate +10% -4ENM

Which in any case for general nuking purposes seems imo to outweigh the +mab, trait if for nothing else the -enm gain along with the crit hit rate.

Idk I'm thinking it would only be feasible if you had witch sash and wise grip to go along with it to give the 16% mcrit total to justify that, but maybe its just me :/

2) I pose a question to Suiram/kaeko/anyone else that's looked into it, Assuming dINT+10 is reached, is it simply just the macc or the base damage gains as well that decrease, I'm also assuming I have enough ele skill to floor resistance rate on the mob.

3) One last thing, As a general principal that I've carrier over from bard if stuff is resisting a lot, I switch to a full macc set over skill/stat wherever I can place it, in some cases namely ring slots i.e. omegas +balrahns instead of omega+sorc, and shadow coat +10macc over Igqira, I've noticed floored resistance without giving up say zmitts or other slots, is it better then to sacrifice +mab slots like that for +macc ?


edit: along those lines I'm not refering to swapping out HQ staffs for alky, simply because of the base damage increase from staff outweighing the extra macc from Alky.

[Kaeko]

2) I pose a question to Suiram/kaeko/anyone else that's looked into it, Assuming dINT+10 is reached, is it simply just the macc or the base damage gains as well that decrease, I'm also assuming I have enough ele skill to floor resistance rate on the mob.

Base damage will always increase by the same amount per INT regardless of the INT difference (e.g. +2 per INT with IV and AM, +1.5 for III and Ga3 etc.). It is MACC where you need to consider dINT as that is the only known tier for this.

On the vast majority of mobs, I honestly wouldn't even focus on skill and just max your damage stats (MAB and INT) if you're a SCH or BLM. On mobs that require the resist set like CoP Wyrms, go for maxed MACC. I would avoid playing the middle ground by trying to mix and max damage vs. acc stats - just go all 1 or all the other. The exception is the earring slots, where I would always nuke with Novio and Moldy if you have both.

Parts of your question confused me (wording?) so I hope this answers what you were looking for.

[Nerull]

How does 10+3+2 = 16?

I've posted this elsewhere, but I don't understand why people try to justify mcrit by saying that you can stack multiple pieces. It doesn't matter how much you stack it, if each individual piece is worse than alternatives in those slots. Giving up 2 INT and 2 MAB for 15% mcrit is not a good idea.

[Kaeko]

Magic Critical is a very poor stat in general.

If you have an item that says "100% magic critical hit rate" it sounds amazing, but you could just rewrite it as "+10 MAB" and then it doesn't sound quite as amazing.

Going by this wording, you might as well just call the "+10% magical critical hit rate" on this new helm "+1 MAB". The only way I could possibly justify going +10 critical is if you were solely interested in upping your MAB stat to max potential damage on spells/abilities that are not stat modified, but are MAB modified. Bio would be an example of such a spell, though I have no clue why you'd max that specifically. Quick Draw is another example, but I've heard QD and magic crits don't work.

Lastly, the whole +10% magic crit = 1 MAB thing is actually itself an oversimplification. Remember that MAB has diminishing returns. So if you want to get REALLY picky, 1 MAB is better than +10% magic crit because you get less bang for your buck by having +10 MAB in 1 attack vs. +1 MAB in all ten attacks.

[Argettio]

Magic Critical is a very poor stat in general.

But it's new, it's rare and it's makes great epeen screenshots

and sadly that's enough for some people.

[Knightfell]

Sorry for the nub question:

On the first page one of the posters listed Magic Crit as something that was affected by our base stats, when did this occur?

As far as I had been aware Magic Crit was only obtainable through items such as the witch sash, I haven't noticed my nukes jumping up slightly every so often.

Edit: Seems I may have misread the post or it was edited, my bad.

[Argettio]

Sorry for the nub question:

On the first page one of the posters listed Magic Crit as something that was affected by our base stats, when did this occur?

As far as I had been aware Magic Crit was only obtainable through items such as the witch sash, I haven't noticed my nukes jumping up slightly every so often.

Edit: Seems I may have misread the post or it was edited, my bad.

Just to clarify, magic crits only happen when wearing a crit item (witch sash etc). There is no way for them to happen any other way.

The exact formulas for magic damage can be found here