Leaden Salute

[Gunslinger]

Here’s a derail for you-

I love all the people in here getting butthurt about eva00r calling COR a subpar DD.

Guess what- it is. Anything that isn't _strictly_ a DD is a subpar DD for the sake of merits. It's a hybrid job, if it was the best job for ranged attacks there wouldn't be a need for rangers, would there?

That's not to say that cor isn't outstanding in merits. It's just not outstanding as a stand-alone DD. It's decent. You should gear to what your party needs, not to what makes your epeen feel good. Sometimes /whm can be a real asset and sometimes it’s worthless, it all depends on your other support. As much as I’d love to say “fuck it, if your mages can’t handle it get new mages lol,” it’s not always possible.

If I’m needed as backup healing on dragoon I don’t bitch because it’s likely going to take away my random 2k+ DBs and 6-hit, I do it because it’s ultimately going to result in better xp gain for myself.

If you have to choose between your dragoon or your cor subbing a mage job, which are you going to pick? Show me a parse where drg/mage is outparsed by cor/anything by a wider margin than drg/sam over cor/mage and I’ll concede my point This isn’t about some job pride, it’s about what the job is. My NIN isn’t a PLD, my DRG/RDM isn’t a WHM, and my BST isn’t a SMN. Your COR isn’t a RNG.

If you have a party with good support, sub RNG or WAR, please! It can only help in that case. But don’t pretend /WHM is useless for a job that straddles the line between a support position and a backline DD.

[Julian]

Don't invite shitty people, problem solved.

happy?

And even with crappy melees, it's not hard to keep mp up, unless they REALLY suck. Since this thread kind of assumes you have a cor in your party, refresh+sanction+evokers roll+ballad(even if just ballad2)+morrigan+duelist chapeau keeps mp pretty healthy. 5/5 convert merits help too.

As much as I’d love to say “fuck it, if your mages can’t handle it get new mages lol,” it’s not always possible.

You can, all you have to do is stop joining pick up parties and just play with people that you know, makes meriting 5000x better.

edit: At the rest of your post, I'm sure no one here is saying NEVER sub whm, but in any decent merit party where people don't suck, the extra support really isn't needed. I've had quite a few parties with a COR that subbed whm when I was on RDM, and all they did was stand there, sometimes throw a cure3 that either I had already cast before them, or ended up casting anyway right after they did. Wasted potential.

[Gunslinger]

You can, all you have to do is stop joining pick up parties and just play with people that you know, makes meriting 5000x better.

edit: At the rest of your post, I'm sure no one here is saying NEVER sub whm, but in any decent merit party where people don't suck, the extra support really isn't needed. I've had quite a few parties with a COR that subbed whm when I was on RDM, and all they did was stand there, sometimes throw a cure3 that either I had already cast before them, or ended up casting anyway right after they did. Wasted potential.

I don't have a need to merit anymore, but if I'm getting buffer I can assure you it's with LS mates. When I'm leveling a new job I don't really have that choice and a players openness to sub choice is always appreciated in that case . That said, a lot of people don't have the option to merit exclusively with 5 friends. If they did this argument would be a moot point- if you're with 5 friends sub whatever the hell you want, I'm sure they'll tell you if it works or not.

In the example you listed above the COR should have been subbing RNG or WAR, I agree. But that's in that situation. What's that phrase we all love? Shit's situational! :D

And I'm pretty sure some people in this thread are saying never sub WHM in merits.

As much as it probably seems like I'm trying to start a flamewar with CORs I can assure you I'm not. I just came into the thread and saw a bunch of people "loling" about the term 'subpar' DD and sub choices. WHM is a perfectly acceptable sub in some situations, just as WAR and RNG are. But people should at least be realistic about what the job is and embrace the fact that it can fill multiple roles, even if it's not a master of any.

[Argettio]

happy?

And even with crappy melees, it's not hard to keep mp up, unless they REALLY suck. Since this thread kind of assumes you have a cor in your party, refresh+sanction+evokers roll+ballad(even if just ballad2)+morrigan+duelist chapeau keeps mp pretty healthy. 5/5 convert merits help too.

You can, all you have to do is stop joining pick up parties and just play with people that you know, makes meriting 5000x better.

Yes.

And like I said, I have all of those things (sans the refresh body).

Really sucky DDs; CORs and BRD that can't keep refresh songs/rolls on the mage are all pretty much standard for pick-up merits.

And yes, pick-up parties are unavoidable for a lot of people.

I'm sure no one here is saying NEVER sub whm

Kerberoz told eva00r to kill them self for saying COR was sub par DD and WHM can be a viable sub.

Thats not exactly saying NEVER sub whm, but a fairly clear message.

IMO
In a RDM BRDx2, COR, DDx2 party the cor should DD (and be good at it or GTFO) *very rare situation*
In a RDM, BRD, COR, DDx3 party the cor should DD
In a RDM, COR, DDx4 party the cor should pull and buff (dropping the odd WS when they get enough TP from pulling)

There are exceptions to those, but it depends a lot on the members.

[Auspice]

I've only had to go COR/WHM twice in merits. The first time was because nobody in our LS wanted to merit on RDM so we got a pick up RDM who was fucking terrible and I had to help keep up with healing.

The second time was because a RDM in our LS was crying that they wouldn't be able to keep up. I spent the entire party with full MP and only needed to toss out a handful of random cures for the course of the entire party. It was completely worthless.

/RNG or /WAR is ideal but sometimes shit happens out of our control and you've gotta suck it up a and hit /WHM; don't even get me started on the time my LS mates wanted me to come COR/NIN to a party. . . lol

[Greatguardian]

Here's the problem: You are not replacing a full DD with a COR in merits. You are not losing DD potential by having a COR come instead of a WAR. If you're doing it right, you're only gaining damage.

If your party setup is, generically, War, War, War, Rdm, Brd, Brd, and you bring a COR instead of the Brd, what are you doing? You're essentially getting Fighter's/Corsair's (or whatever set of rolls is necessary for that party) instead of Minuetx2, plus an extra 2-5 MP/tick refresh on the Rdm, at the loss of a Brd/Whm's support healing. The extra refresh from Evoker's alone (assuming the Brd/Nin is still tossing Ballad on on occasion) is more than enough to make up for the MP expenditure of an average Brd/Whm.

Who cares if COR can't parse near a "real" DD? They're not trying to. I certainly don't. The point is, you're going into a party with 3.5 DDs and just as much support, instead of 3.0 DDs. If you're in a party terribad enough that you need to full-support /WHM, you need a new party. If, for any reason, your DDs are Hasso-heads and the Rdm needs more healing... sub DNC. COR should never, for any reason, be sitting back and playing a wannabe BRD instead of using the tools they have available to them. I bet you 99% of the COR/WHMs here, and everywhere else, don't even use Quick Draw shots.

If you want to be lazy and full-support it up, go for it! But don't do it in my parties. Or anywhere on my server, for that matter, unless you want to end up in our favorite Media thread.

Edit: For clarity, Cor/Whm is always retarded. That's not to say COR can't switch from a Hybrid role to a full support role; but rather that they'll do so much more effectively and still contribute to the party's damage as COR/DNC.

[Jak]

Slight derail (but more on topic than COR/WHM)

Do obis force the day/weather effect on Leaden Salute? As that would mean a nice 10% buff all day long in dynamis.

It does. I always use Anrin Obi in dynamis, darksday, dark weather, etc. If it doesn't apply I just use Scouter's Rope.



No comment on the back/forth arguing of whether /whm > /rng > /war or whatever is better. To each their own. Every Corsair has their own play styles, I simply choose to go /rng and continue getting the same 25-30K XP an hour that you get as /whm but have more fun with my /rng.

And whoever said they fulltime apollos to help sleep (and cure obviously) .. when the hell do you get resisted otherwise? I've never gone /whm to a merit PT.. never used apollos.. and yet I'm still quite capable of full-time helping with sleeps (with my 45 second QD recast).

Okay so much for the "No comment"

[Auspice]

Hmm, I never thought about trying /DNC. . .

Christ, we're off topic. >_<

[Kirbyprime]

COR/RNG or COR/NIN is just a subpar DD

While I personally go /WAR, I will have to agree with Kerb and his

^ Kill yourself.

EDIT: And I mock your 3x DD 1x COR/WHM 1x RDM 1x BRD with my 2x DD 1x COR/WAR 2x BRD 1x RDM

[Julian]

Wait a sec, were people actually considering COR as a "4th dd replacement" instead of a 2nd brd replacement, really???

wow, you guys must have had some really shitty merits in your times

[Fallyn]

Here's the problem: You are not replacing a full DD with a COR in merits. You are not losing DD potential by having a COR come instead of a WAR. If you're doing it right, you're only gaining damage.

If your party setup is, generically, War, War, War, Rdm, Brd, Brd, and you bring a COR instead of the Brd, what are you doing? You're essentially getting Fighter's/Corsair's (or whatever set of rolls is necessary for that party) instead of Minuetx2, plus an extra 2-5 MP/tick refresh on the Rdm, at the loss of a Brd/Whm's support healing. The extra refresh from Evoker's alone (assuming the Brd/Nin is still tossing Ballad on on occasion) is more than enough to make up for the MP expenditure of an average Brd/Whm.

Who cares if COR can't parse near a "real" DD? They're not trying to. I certainly don't. The point is, you're going into a party with 3.5 DDs and just as much support, instead of 3.0 DDs. If you're in a party terribad enough that you need to full-support /WHM, you need a new party. If, for any reason, your DDs are Hasso-heads and the Rdm needs more healing... sub DNC. COR should never, for any reason, be sitting back and playing a wannabe BRD instead of using the tools they have available to them. I bet you 99% of the COR/WHMs here, and everywhere else, don't even use Quick Draw shots.

If you want to be lazy and full-support it up, go for it! But don't do it in my parties. Or anywhere on my server, for that matter, unless you want to end up in our favorite Media thread.

Edit: For clarity, Cor/Whm is always retarded. That's not to say COR can't switch from a Hybrid role to a full support role; but rather that they'll do so much more effectively and still contribute to the party's damage as COR/DNC.

Thankyou, someone who actually understands that changing to DD isntead of COR is fail logic, because COR isn't taking a DD slot, its a support slot.

DD DD DD COR BRD RDM > DD DD DD DD BRD RDM

[ninjaedit]

Wait a sec, were people actually considering COR as a "4th dd replacement" instead of a 2nd brd replacement, really???

wow, you guys must have had some really shitty merits in your times

^

[Gunslinger]

Thankyou, someone who actually understands that changing to DD isntead of COR is fail logic, because COR isn't taking a DD slot, its a support slot.

Exactly, so do what you need to do to support your party. If your party will benefit for additional erases, cures, w/e, sub whm. If your party will benefit more from the additional damage, sub war or rng. I don't think anyone here is arguing that they're taking the spot of a DD, but rather that they should know their role as a support/hybrid job. Replacing a DD with a cor is retarded, hence the "sub par" DD talk.

The only problem I have with any of the advice is this thread (or any thread) is when I see the word never applied to something that is actually situational and justifiable.

Also, the ad hominem attacks about how horrible peoples merit parties must be is just precious, but if you think the xp difference between DD, DD, DD, brd, cor/whm, rdm and DD, DD, DD, brd, cor/rng, rdm is that big I'd look at your own meriting priorities. /rng may be more fun, your preference to play, and better in specific situations, but it's not making the chains. Your rolls do that (if your DD don't suck... and if they do, you're back to a situation where /whm is probably more valuable anyway).

tl;dr- just be versatile, having a stick up your butt about /whm is just as bad as a cor who refuses to sub anything else.

Edit: VVVV Yes, or /dnc if you're content sitting on your TP. My point is that sometimes you should care more about your role as a support job and less about your own damage, at least when it's needed. Saying "gtfo" to a party who requests backup healing 'just in case' because they don't need the cor/war or cor/rng damage boost is just as retarded as refusing to have a good damage set.

[Marcicus]

If you're using COR/WHM over COR/DNC in merits go fucking cap yourself in the head. Not even trolling.

[TummieGaruda]

I've had this WS for almost 8 months so I'll try to help you out as best as possible.

1) How would the accuracy be for COR/NIN compared to Slug Shot with COR/RNG? Assuming comparable gear for both builds (I use Martial Gun too)?

Leaden Salute is completely magical and will only miss if it is absorbed by a shadow if I remember correctly. I've never personally had Leaden Salute miss or get absorbed. So it automatically has better native accuracy and doesn't require ranged acc in slots. Martial Gun is best to use but bullets do NOT matter as bullet + gun damage means nothing in terms of damage dealt which I'll get into later. You want Martial mainly because of the TP bonus.

2) Since its a magic WS, is it natively more accurate than a melee WS? Seems like I miss less Atonements than say, Savage Blade. If so, would the best idea be to stack AGI/MAB and forget about Racc (aside from AF+1 gear).

Yes that is correct. AGI and MAB are the stats that you want to concentrate on. Just macro out ranged acc for agi/mab gear before using the WS.

3) Which pieces would be better for Leaden Salute? Moldavite Ear vs. Drone Earring? Crapaud Earring vs. Drone Earring? Denali Kecks v. AF1+1?

MAB > AGI
Crapaud + Moldivite in both ear slots
Denal Kecks > AF+1

4) Which (if any) Gorget should I use?

Soil Gorget

I should mention this is for XP and mid level NM as well. Thank you in advance!

Honestly you aren't going to be using these in XP. Here's the simple reason why. The damage is magical based and in XP/merit situations you are either fighting Colibri or Mamool's. Colibri have rediculous Magic Defense bonus, so Leaden Salute is going to be pathetic in Damage. Mamool's tend to have pretty high AGI, and the weaponskill does a check of your AGI vs the mobs AGI. Stick to Slugshot/Detonator in Exp Situations.

The best option for Leaden Salute is to save this Weaponskill for Dynamis/Limbus/Einherjar and get an Anrin Obi. Ammo damage doesn't matter, you can use DMG:1 bullets and get the same numbers. So also swap those kind of bullets in to save yourself some gil or any other cheap bullets.

In those situations, you can sub /nin which is fine, but it's preferably better to sub /RDM or even /BLM if you want the extra MAB for a Leaden Salute build. The reason why is in those zones, you get double Darkness weather and with the Anrin obi you get to the full benifit of the double darkness weather which adds a 25% Bonus to Leaden Salute. Ask to be paired with a BLM and use Wizard's Roll and have fun with it.

I am still missing Denali Kecks and Body, but this is roughly the numbers I achieve in Dynamis:

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/j...LeadenDyna.jpg

Since it's magical you don't have to worry about Invincible as it goes right thru it.

[nekura]

Honestly you aren't going to be using these in XP. Here's the simple reason why. The damage is magical based and in XP/merit situations you are either fighting Colibri or Mamool's. Colibri have rediculous Magic Defense bonus, so Leaden Salute is going to be pathetic in Damage. Mamool's tend to have pretty high AGI, and the weaponskill does a check of your AGI vs the mobs AGI.

Isn't Leaden Salute a check of your AGI versus the mob's INT?

[Jak]

I'm at work and can't look it up since 99.9% of my websites are blocked (but oddly not BG >_>) but I'm almost positive it's checked v/s the mobs Int.

[Fng]

All this bitching about /whm and no one says a peep about not farming for a couple of stacks o steels? ffs.

[Kerberoz]

It is vs mob's INT.

Leaden is useful situationally, like... dynamis statues (slug/deto does more on actual mobs unless you fail), slimes, flans, physical resistant mobs, and creating darkness SC.

COR takes a DD spot. Wtf is a 4 DD party? Quit sucking at merits.

Let's consider this shitty setup:

DD DD DD DD BRD RDM

Standard horrible pickup party, right?

Oh, let's be tards and replace the BRD with a COR:

DD DD DD DD COR RDM

Or let's be smart and replace one of the DDs:

DD DD DD COR BRD RDM

The last setup is superior, unless someone in the party sucks ass and can't perform their role. In fact, replacing another one of the DDs with a second COR or second BRD is even better, unless someone in the party sucks!

[Fallyn]

Or let's be smart and replace one of the DDs:

DD DD DD COR BRD RDM

The last setup is superior, unless someone in the party sucks ass and can't perform their role. In fact, replacing another one of the DDs with a second COR or second BRD is even better, unless someone in the party sucks!

.

[TummieGaruda]

Isn't Leaden Salute a check of your AGI versus the mob's INT?

Yes my fault I meant INT.

Still stands that it shouldn't be used in Exp/merit situations unless you happen to be fighting flans in a manaburn pt or something. It really shines in situations where the mob has ridiculous evasion, the mob is physical resistant/weak to magic, or the mob uses Invincible.