[Speculation]Job Systems

[miokomioko]

Gear swaps can go to hell. One should have to choose their equipment (for the most part) before charging into battle, perhaps requiring a small vulnerable cool-down for weapon swapping and a larger one for removing and re-equipping something as cumbersom as a suit of plate armor. Perhaps requiring you to disengage or rest or something.

While there's the argument that the variety of equipment adds a large chunk of depth to the system, I think there should be enough variety in the battles that one could full-time a specific piece that would be best for the situation at hand.

Also, let's hope that XIV brings back some consistancy and purpose to the elemental resist/absorb/weakness system. XI fucked it big time... they tried to salvage it and make some sense towards the end but it didn't cut it. Give my Monk a real reason to carry my fire claws into the frozen ruins. Give my Ranger a real reason to carry some lightning arrows into the underground waterways. Give my Paladin a real reason to bring my ice shield into the windswept caves.

If they bring the elemental potency back to how it originally functioned in games like IV, you could do a lot of pre-equipping before setting out and gear swaps would be largely unnecessary if they avoid the (often) conflicting stat calculations for weaponskills.

[Francisco]

I kind of like the idea of FFIX's (that's 9) "trait" system - where you have X Number of points to spend on different features to your character.

For instance, any character, assuming level requirements - can set "Resist Sleep" in their mog house if they know they're going to be fighting something that uses Sleep spells frequently.

Other options, assuming a FFXI type stat system...

Cure Potency, Critical Hit Rate, Accuracy, Attack, Regen, Refresh, Haste, Counter, Store TP, Subtle Blow... and so on... maybe even a way to increase XP earned, or enhance skill ups.

Maybe have the ability to level these up - at low levels you might have Cure Potency +3%, and at a higher level it could be +20%.

As for gear swaps - it'd be nice if they could do away with them for the most part, and replace certain "macro gear" with "augments" or something.

Rather than having to go out and get: 12-13 pieces of "Chakra Gear" - I could augment the ability to reach it's maximum potential by obtaining the right items or meeting the right requirements.

(Would it be "broken" if I could sacrifice my Genbu's Kabuto to add "Chakra: VIT+15" to my Usukane Somen - or just to make "Chakra: VIT+15" an inherit ability that nullifies any other VIT or Chakra related bonus from the head slot?)

[Raikku]

They better not bring gear swaps into my FFXIV.

[sephir]

Gear swaps were so integral to XI. Dark/light staff were a godsend to the mages and I hope that in XIV there is something that can be obtained early on that benefits the whole party so immensely.

[Akiyama]

I agree about the Gear Swaps. Sure they helped a lot, but imagine how much tougher some of the mobs would be if you had to use the same gear the entire fight. Also imagine how much easier it'd be if you didn't have 4-5 Melees swapping every 4-5 seconds to do weapon skills, forcing the white mages to edit in the melee's name to cure them or wait for them to appear again, etc.

I wouldn't mind seeing a revamp of the FF2's 'job'/skill system, or IX's trait system. I loved that. Imagine having a tank equip HP+20% or something, and having people use resist sleep.

[Priran]

The problem I foresee with making players differentiate into a class based on how they play is that it turns into a wholly unenjoyable grind if you know where you want to end up but the game demands you get there a specific way.

Like, for example, if I wanted to level a black mage for my HNMLS, but I want to solo, and I do it in a way that uses a lot of white magic, so the game throws me on the red mage path or throws me traits or whatever that cater to solo players instead of ones that would be useful in groups.

Plus, I don't see how it would work in the context of a system that lets one character level multiple jobs.

[LD]

The problem I foresee with making players differentiate into a class based on how they play is that it turns into a wholly unenjoyable grind if you know where you want to end up but the game demands you get there a specific way.

So it would only be different from 11 in that the end result is actually enjoyable?

Not trying to make a thing, I just think I'm funny.



I think that's why they're centering it more around equipment (or just weapons). There may be a superior weapon for what you're doing, but when you have to use a piece to develop a specific skill, you wont necessarily be using your skills very differently. There is no fundamental difference in the use of a Fire spell when using an elm staff or a Vulcan, only in the effect. Granted, that's just as relevant, but the real question is whether or not the difference between two weapons will be as dramatic as the example I provided.

[Gergall]

I agree about the Gear Swaps. Sure they helped a lot, but imagine how much tougher some of the mobs would be if you had to use the same gear the entire fight.

XIV is not XI. There will be myriad other ways of achieving game balance.

Sidetrack: In the Starcraft II forums there is a group of players that complain about every single thing that makes SC2 different from SC1. They basically want SC1 with new graphics.

XIV is not XI with new graphics. It is a completely different game.

Also imagine how much easier it'd be if you didn't have 4-5 Melees swapping every 4-5 seconds to do weapon skills, forcing the white mages to edit in the melee's name to cure them or wait for them to appear again, etc.

Gear swaps or not, I will be FLOORED if characters still blink in and out in this new game released 8+ years later.

[LD]

Gear swaps or not, I will be FLOORED if characters still blink in and out in this new game released 8+ years later.

http://www.orcahome.de/images/stuff/spermwhale.gif

HELLO GROUND!


In all seriousness, even if they do still have to reload your char every time you change gear, the actual problem, your target being lost, probably wont still exist.

'Course, the reverse could be true...

[Maguspk]

It's funny how set people are in even speculating as if everything in FFXI is going to be in FFXIV. The reason you want gear swaps is because you are used to game working a particular way. If they instead made sure that you never needed to swap gear then not having the ability to switch gear in combat wouldn't be a bad thing, it'd simply be a side-effect of a better system. Gear swaps were just an artifact of gear never really improving and instead being situational.

[Hyan]

Gear swaps were just an artifact of gear never really improving and instead being situational.

I wonder how SE can keep shit situational without having gear swaps.. worst case we'll have another horizontal endgame except this time with only few pieces of gear you can get... so I'd rather have them approach it the safe way.

[LD]

It isn't that hard, just makes pieces in a certain template and keep building in that same theme.

For example, say a MNK in FFXI has an Arakan Samue. Now, say they made a piece that was harder to get & higher level that drops the att bonus, but increases the SB bonus and added a significant chakra enhancing effect. Now say they added a higher level, harder to get body with an even higher SB & chakra bonus, with 2.5x the evade and +10 guard. They could also branch out, say, instead of the 2nd piece dropping the att & getting the chakra bonus, it doubled the att and got a regen effect. The pieces are practically identical in function, but they branch outward to better fit a particular type of play style.

'Course, I guess the question isn't whether it's possible, but whether SE can do it. :/

[Raogrimm]

I had to re-register to reply here cause I don't have my old password or email...blegh

Anyway.... people need to realize that equip swaps are just a substitute for time spent getting extra something to enhance a particular move. The gil spent on the equip for a WS swap is just time spent obtaining the gil and a good strategic choice to enhance the desired stat. That time could be spent (example) skilling that WS or enhancing it through training or a quest etc. It can be JUST as strategic and deep if there are options for how/what to enhance, but it is intuitive and sorta realistic......as opposed to the non-intuitive double macro full armor swap to perform an invisible WS then blink back to a confused character. You can retain the depth just fix the system. Fuck equip swaps.

As for situational justification for equip swaps, you need to bring each piece from your MH anyway... So this can be replaced with setting the WS attributes you've earned in your MH or doing something similar. This is essentially the same thing as equip choice....it's just time spent out of battle then preplanning for how it is used in battle. You don't have to lose ANY depth in this situation.

For job (or really any other facet of the game) speculation, make sure to look at other FF games. They love to reuse things and improve stuff that was never fully implemented.

[Ramor]

Big assortment of jobs, but can you tell me the difference between a DRG SAM MNK WAR or DRK? I like the wide variety of jobs, but if the jobs overlap, then it's getting annoying. As for the job system, please no more subjobs. I never liked relying on a subjob to play a job efficiently and it would force people into single job combinations as in 11.

they really didn't do enough to utilize them individually i suppose, but they had different attacking types (slash/pierece/blunt etc) as well as various playstyles, although i suppose it was all a moot point by the time endgame rolled around and certain classes certainly outshone the others (until the 'fixes')

as for the job system i'm hoping it's main job only, while subjobs were a neat idea originally it ended up being useless and people only using the status quo SJs because the other jobs were trash as SJs (and probably as mains for that matter)

i'm guessing it'll be a simple system like they have now, only more benefits to playing a single class that hinders your other classes so that you actually have a 'main' job instead of about 8 possibilities that you could bring to a fight; for instance say i play PLD a lot, i get all kinds of cool bonuses on it (merits basically) which then doesn't allow me to get any bonuses on other classes and more or less makes my paladin a bit more powerful than a regular PLD, even though i could still swap if needed.

i realize most people probably wouldn't like that, but i hated putting in hours and hours on warrior to merit my fucking PLD up simply because PLD was useless outside of a few fights in the early days and everyone just used shitty nins instead

[Yugl]

Might mimic the FFX system. It's also possible for a weapons to follow a tiered pattern where you unlock access to certain weapon types over time.

[Silenka]

I was just thinking while I was playing SMN today:

How awesome would it be to combine corsair and summoner...

All I'm saying is

I better be able to play a pirate summoner in 14 or else.

[Kurokikaze]

http://www.ffcompendium.com/chara/u-kaze2.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BgmHavQIzxQ

[Silenka]

Yes, exactly, except without the fail that is FF Ultimate, and my Phoenix better not look like a toothless drunk redneck.

[Ramor]

@weapons comment: as long as scythes remain at some point accessible everything's ok.

[LinktheDeme]

Yes, exactly, except without the fail that is FF Ultimate, and my Phoenix better not look like a toothless drunk redneck.

Nope it'll be a great katana, and when its used you lose your sanity