Question about a crit hit build vs haste build

[Gunslinger]

Maybe it's time to dump the Standard/Advanced distinction? Neither forum gets much action because a lot of BG posters have moved to General or play WoW.

I know Advanced was supposed to be the place where people could say anything but it's just turning into the same thing as Standard now.

*shrug* Not trying to run the board or anything, just making a suggestion.

Completely agree. Not to backseat mod (although now that I've said that, let me go ahead and do it anyway!), but the [Non-advanced topics will result in a ban] warning is kind of pointless now. Not much new to discover, and news-items and updates aren't really 'advanced' and end up there. It probably discourages posters from posting there too (and while that's the point, I think it's probably discouraging discussion rather than fostering the advanced discussion you're looking for).

Anywho, just a suggestion. If anything, you could have a FFXI General Sub-Forum and an Ask/Tell sub-forum if you want to divide it, since that's essentially what it is now.

[Starr]

I think every thread made like this should be dumped in the what's better or random question thread

[isladar]

I think every thread made like this should be dumped in the what's better or random question thread

I hear that, but the staggered replies would be a nightmare to deal with.

Suggestions about the format of Standard / Advanced should probably be PM'd to Sono.

[ringthree]

I hear that, but the staggered replies would be a nightmare to deal with.

Suggestions about the format of Standard / Advanced should probably be PM'd to Sono.

I definitely agree that while it is a good notion on paper, dumping everything in the RQT will just overwhelm it completely.

Can I just send Sono a link to this thread?

[Starr]

I think then maybe Randomer Question "thead" and What's better "thread" should just be small sub forums in standard then, or just split standard into those sub sections because there's not much else talked about here is there?

[Baha]

Middle bird camp. Steal birds from lower (requires it to be either empty, or more likely, occupied by a shitty party), keep an eye on mamools when desperate, ignore wivres.

Can't help with OP question, I only used critbuild with swordchucks, did pretty good, but I only played around on warrior when bored. Didn't make sense to go on war when I could go as thf or brd. ;p

I don't think it'll work out as well with gaxe myself, but good luck with finding out.

[isladar]

Can I just send Sono a link to this thread?

I'm sure he wouldn't mind, hon.

[Starr]

Didn't make sense to go on war when I could go as thf

Interesting, I think THF sucks still, never been outparsed by one and they can't share hate as well as WAR.

[Redshift]

Assuming your GA is merited, dia2/haste/march2/minuet4/kabobs are always on.

Your crit build is 8 ACC over cap and haste build is 15 ACC under cap. If your bers/agg timers are the same, then when they're up haste wins and when they're down crit wins.

Need to adjust your gear more. Biggest recommendation would be to have separate macros for when aggressor is down/up to take advantage of excess ACC.

[Starr]

116 Dex
(one short of exactly 50 Dex above a Greater Colibri's 67 Agi although swapping subs to nin would give you that extra dex) Other races could swap out some pieces and get the same results.

or using Pixie Earring

[Baha]

Interesting, I think THF sucks still, never been outparsed by one and they can't share hate as well as WAR.

Was my main, not perfected (needed HQ's), but had mandau. Other mandaus did about the same, and had one great DRG who parsed a litle bit higher.
Even without relic, THF is great at birds, two big crits every minute, fast tp, decent ws, takes low damage like a NIN and has better hate sharing than you'd think. One of the only places where they can really stand out.
It's easy to have never run into one who could do well, not many who take it seriously enough and have the means to get the necesarry stuff. Then one of those needs to be among your friends/shell or a friendly shell, cause you'll rarely run into *any* THF in a pickup party. ;p

[Phraust]

To the OP:

I tried a "Premature" crit build before, imo, Haste will be a better bet. Once I got a few pieces of gear I was able to do a proper crit build with little, or arguably no sacrifices. For now I'd stick with a normal Haste build if I were you.

[Mazurat]

Your crit build is 8 ACC over cap and haste build is 15 ACC under cap. If your bers/agg timers are the same, then when they're up haste wins and when they're down crit wins.

I dont know what the acc cap is. Another reason why I created this thread was just to see how these builds would look on paper.

Need to adjust your gear more. Biggest recommendation would be to have separate macros for when aggressor is down/up to take advantage of excess ACC.

I dont have all the gears. I'm just looking for something to build towards for merit parties in the bird camp. I know all gear is situational based on buffs, mobs, songs/rolls etc and this would not be my "General use for all mobs" build.

And man ....how did this thread get derailed into Exp per hour at bird camp? lol

Speaking of which, I'm not looking to bump up my exp per hour or anything of the sort. Just saw a thread where a Mithra Thf tested out a Crit hit build vs Haste build (on paper) and the results piqued my curiosity about whether or not it would work for a GA War. Did a little bit of research and found out that War's have quite a bit of dex gears at their disposal. So naturally I schemed up a set of gear with tons of dex, good acc (apparently too much overall acc), and decent haste.

Anywhoo, nobody answered my question so I guess I'll try and figure it out on my own. Its not that I'm bad at math, its that I dont know the formulas to figure out hit damage range, crit damage range, and acc%.

[Spider-Dan]

Cause:

Don't build your gear around birds.
[...]
First, gear doesn't matter on Greater Colibri.

Effect:

No matter how much people protest, you are going to cap out on Greater Colibri at around 25K an hour.

Why am I not surprised to hear that the person who doesn't believe in specializing for birds has never seen more than 25k/hr there? The fact that you seem to believe that wivres are optional (and/or make very little difference) says volumes.

Second, you learn nothing from birds that applies to the parts of the game where gear is important. The classic example is the SAM polearm build, which is great for Greater Colibri and almost nothing else in the game. If you want to learn what is good gear overall, then parse on the hard stuff, and forget about birds. Parsing birds tells you nothing about the rest of the game and if you try to take information from that parse you will be gimping yourself from the rest of the game.

Yes, instead, what we should do is eat pizza or red curry, because That's What Works Everywhere Else.

Anyone who thinks that you shouldn't gear yourself for something that potentially takes up more time than anything else in the game AND has a direct correlation of improved performance:reduced time spent has their priorities unbelievably skewed.

[ringthree]

Cause:


Effect:

Why am I not surprised to hear that the person who doesn't believe in specializing for birds has never seen more than 25k/hr there? The fact that you seem to believe that wivres are optional (and/or make very little difference) says volumes.

I have been in SAM, Relic/Ares DRG, Ares DRG, BRD, BRD, WHM parties on birds and have found the XP cap to be based not at all on how fast you can kill but on how fast the mobs spawn. The limiting factor is number of mobs, not gear or skill or anything else.

Also as I already said, for a SAM if you are equipping yourself just to kill birds faster you will be hurting your ability to kill the only mobs left over. The Wivre are more difficult and require better gear. Polearm SAM is essentially self-negating at bird camp.

Yes, instead, what we should do is eat pizza or red curry, because That's What Works Everywhere Else.

Anyone who thinks that you shouldn't gear yourself for something that potentially takes up more time than anything else in the game AND has a direct correlation of improved performance:reduced time spent has their priorities unbelievably skewed.

I am saying that you should not gear for something that doesn't relate to the more important and difficult aspects of the game, and where the difference in gear in will make little difference in total XP gain. My whole point is that improved performance on birds does not greatly reduce the time spent on them. My priorities are in fact quite in line here.

I understand you do not think highly of me for whatever reason, but please at least provide some evidence to disprove my argument instead of grandstanding.

[Killkenny]

Polearm SAM is essentially self-negating at bird camp.

That is very wrong as polearm can still put out very decent numbers on wirves with a decent build and 2brds or brd/cor and the difference between great katana and polearm is vast on birds.

As for the rest I do tend to agree that this overwhelming fixation with planning everything around birds is retarded. It is possible for a pickup party to kill all the birds on middle level and several of the ones on lower level before they start repopping. That is very often the limiting factor for a party of even mediocore DDs, and just as often it will be the brd who is slow at pulling.

Apart from some very stupid gear selections in the OP (its common knowledge birds cap at around 407 accuracy now so if you want to make a thread atleast bother to know this) who the fuck is going to want to spend 6m~ on hachiryu hands when the only place they'll see any use is colibri.

[ringthree]

That is very wrong as polearm can still put out very decent numbers on wirves with a decent build and 2brds or brd/cor and the difference between great katana and polearm is vast on birds.

Meh, in the end we agree that the difference doesn't matter, and that is really the point.

[Mazurat]

Apart from some very stupid gear selections in the OP (its common knowledge birds cap at around 407 accuracy now so if you want to make a thread atleast bother to know this)

Way to be a complete douchebag. Not everyone is a high and almighty master of the game knows all the ins and outs of every little camp with every buff and debuff and what variables cor's add in the mix. And the differences between individual mob levels at individual camps and adjust gear accordingly. Seriously. People like you are too fucking anal about this game. Why? Oh...so you can get .5% more damage over the next guy who's anal but not quite as anal as you? Right. Do the world a favour and unplug your modem.

As to my "very stupid" gear choices and "common knowledge" Keep this in mind. I have done zero math on this build. Thats why I tossed this out here, so people could take a peek and see where it leads them. I didnt want dinks like you coming in here telling me its stupid for <insert reason here>. Blah blah fucking blah. I want a comparison, not your opinion.

who the fuck is going to want to spend 6m~ on hachiryu hands when the only place they'll see any use is colibri.

Ok mister high and almighty cheapskate. Who said anything about paying for these? ZNM this shit man. Zeni is retardedly easy to get as a blm.

Let the flame wars begin.

[Andradi]

U mad?

[Mazurat]

Nah, just responding with the same mentality he did