Why are repubs still hand waving around Global Warming?

[archibaldcrane]

It's true, but only if you explicitly state that you're referring to money, and only money.

When you say "individual liberty AND economic freedom" then you're implying you're talking about two different things.

[Plow]

economic freedom *is* an individual liberty

or, at least, that's pretty much the entire basis of the republican viewpoint on it

[Shuvo]

What really bothers me is how Global Warming is getting all the attention while their are so many other dangers caused by pollution. E.g. all the non bio-degradable plastics we keep dumping into the sea doesn't break down properly and it now we're finding fish with plastics solidifying inside their gut. This could maybe kill of all wild fish within a few decades. And the reason we don't just use bio-degradable plastics? It's a little more expensive.

The focus on GW is just a small part of the overall environmental problem, yet everyone is so passionate about whether it is real or not they ignore everything else. Wake up people!

[Leif]

Wow, so democrats stand for suppression of liberty and freedom, republicans arent anti-abortion, funding eduction is wrong, and republicans arent the key party behind anti-gay marriage legislation.

I cant even count the number of blantant lies and fallacies you just stated Leif.

Seriously, what planet do you live on?

Democrats think government programs can spend your money better than you can.

Many Republicans do fight against abortion and gay marriage. That does not make it part of the conservative philosophy.

Funding education does not work. Every kid should be able to attend public school. That's about it. It certainly does not cost $15,000 to educate a child for a year.

I wonder how domestic wire taps, torture, and the illegal detaining of american civilians falls into that "maximizing individual liberties".

You are STILL calling people names! The difference between me (calling Bill Clinton a rapist) and you (throwing around labels like "torture" "illegal" "lies" and "american civilians") is that I am actually kidding.

You actually care that we waterboarded (a technique that has not been classified as torture by anyone but Obama) a grand total of three terrorists.

You actually care if a computer screens calls made to outside the United States for words like "terrorist" "bomb" and "weapons". The government is not searching for your dirty laundry. If you are confessing to murder on the phone and they pick it up with their warrantless program, it cannot be used against you. It is not violating your "civil liberties" unless there is some potential consequence to you.

Which American civilians have been illegally detained?


In this situation as well as the global warming debate, people are seriously lacking on facts. Say... Why do you think none of those lawyers or interrogators or Bush or Cheney are facing criminal charges. I dunno? Maybe it wasn't illegal? When the Obama guy can't even come up with something even remotely legit, there's a problem for you guys.


So PLEASE, let's get some facts on one issue or the other before we start fearing the apocalypse, imagining empire state building underwater, and calling for the prosecution of the previous administration who ran things wonderfully. As of this moment, there isn't much backing either one of those arguments besides "Obama says".

[archibaldcrane]

Many Republicans do fight against abortion and gay marriage. That does not make it part of the conservative philosophy.

Unfortunately, you didn't say conservatives. You said Republicans.

You can play the "conservative means what I say it means, it's not synonymous with the Republican party" game all you want, but when you say "Republicans want to maximize individual liberty" you know you aren't speaking truthfully. Own up to it.

Also, Jose Padilla was an American civilian who was illegally detained.

[Jakson]

I don't really think anti-gay marriage is a Republican issue. It is more of a religious issue or one of those "how you were raised" thing (again, Republicans often read the bible and were brought up with that family values thing). Opposing gay marriage is a completely legitimate belief.

Not that it has much to do with the topic at hand, but I know far more Democrats who have read the Bible than Republicans.

You actually care that we waterboarded (a technique that has not been classified as torture by anyone but Obama) a grand total of three terrorists.

Not true.

[Saga]

What about the leaked pictures from Gitmo? Are we wrong to "actually care" about prisoners that have shit themselves silly while armed forces are posing for the camera? Who was pushing for their individual rights while that photo was taken? But hey it's just waterboarding right, who actually cares?

[Alleya]

You actually care that we waterboarded (a technique that has not been classified as torture by anyone but Obama) a grand total of three terrorists.

Let's waterboard you against your will and see what you think of it.

[Correction]

You actually care that we waterboarded (a technique that has not been classified as torture by anyone but Obama)

I love how you keep posting this despite being proved wrong about it every other time you've posted this before.

[Nystul]

if you were waterboarded, I would bet my life that in less than 30 minutes you would say whatever you thought the interrogators wanted to get them to stop. If they insisted that you shot JFK, masterminded 9-11, had Jimmy Hoffa in your bedroom, and were actually the reincarnation of Jesus himself you'd confess to that and more.

In fact, the only people who DONT call waterboarding torture is the Bush Administration and associated conservative apologists/nutjobs.

[Maxxthepenguin]

The troll must be starved

[zoobernut]

Nystul I would bet anyone on these boards would last 30 seconds or less. Did you ever watch the ultra conservative pro water boarding radio talk show host who agreed to get water boarded in a controlled environment where he was not even tied down or anything? He said he would last 10 minutes and he stopped almost as soon as the water hit his face, about 20 seconds. After which he said without a doubt in his mind water boarding is torture and he even said he hated himself for admitting it.

And this was not done in the "interrogation" way. I don't think anyone could say that water boarding is not torture after it was tried on them. Leif would last about 30 seconds tops, maybe.

[Nystul]

I've seen several reporters do it. They last seconds. And that is in a situation where they KNOW they can stop it whenever they want. THey KNOW that there are medical personell on hand. They KNOW they have control over the situation. Imagine the other way.

You can look around for old interviews with Navy Seals from Vietnam who were exposed to it as part of training (because the vietnamese were using it). They'll all tell you that you'll say anything to make it stop.

[aru]

What really bothers me is how Global Warming is getting all the attention while their are so many other dangers caused by pollution.

The focus on GW is just a small part of the overall environmental problem, yet everyone is so passionate about whether it is real or not they ignore everything else. Wake up people!

I know... I don't know why more people don't bring this up. Even if building and vehical emmisions aren't contributing to global climate change they are undeniably contributing to smog and subsequently lung disease, cancer, etc.


As far as Leif's stance on school funding, I agree and disagree. Yes, there are some schools that are underfunded and could use more money to renovate or buy updated books. HOWEVER, there are many, many schools that are OVERfunded and don't have a clue about how to manage their money. I work at an archictural firm and am privvy to alot of the mismanagement of the funds schools are allocated. In one inner city school we were commissioned to do the drawings and specifications for a complete ceiling replacement of the entire school. Two stories, the size of nearly an entire city block. Not only was the ceiling in good shape but one year after the job was complete the school was shut down making the work meaningless. There are rumors that it is slated to be demolished. At a different school in the coutryside they had about a $600,000 surplus from grants and referendums after all of the construction costs for the initial job were paid. Instead of giving the money back to the taxpayers they are adding unneccessary shit to the scope of work by changing out ceiling tiles that were just installed to more expensive ones, painting the entirety of the school instead of just were work was done, new furniture (what they already had looked like it was in fantastic condition) and regrading the entire campus ground to no visable effect. Books or computers for the kids? Lab equipment for science class? Maps for history? NOPE. Point is, just throwing more money at schools is not the answer. They have to allocate what they have more responsably before we can even consider raising taxes to increase school funding.

[Takedown3]

The only disadvantage of solar panels are the initial cost, over the long run they are worth it but it is just the initial cost that is the bitch.

shit's getting cheaper and cheaper not to mention (at least in canada) that there are several government grants/bonus'/tax breaks that help bring that cost down even further

the average low/middle class family obviously doesn't have the money to dump 10-15k into personal infrastructure but with the way things are OBVIOUSLY going i've been putting money aside into 3-5 year mid-term GIC's with up to 5% interest rates in the last year that will be used to hopefully install panels when they come to term. hopefully in 5 years the prices will drop even more then they have in the past 10 and the CDN government will have even more/better grants in place to help get these done.

not to mention that i plan to have at least a 25kw/h system in place with several dozen batteries, and if i can get approval from hydro one i will be able to supply the grid and get a check from the company instead of a bill.

this of course is all on top of the solar water heating system i plan to install along with my backup propane furnace with 700 liter tanks, i was going to go tankless propane water heat but because of the setup of our furnace room i had to remove the oil hot water heater and install a temporary electric so we could have hot water for the 3 weeks that it took to get the new furnace installed (including wait time for installers etc). only reason it took 3 weeks is because i wanted to save some money and remove the old oil furnaces my self, 500$ extra in my pocket WORD


kind went off on a tangent there but its all because of my love for upgrading to new tech in my home

cant wait till all is done

[Dak Rey]

I didn't read much beyond the first post. With that said...

Why did no-one care about global warming when the ice age ended? Clearly the planet is supposed to be covered in ice and global warming has made it habitable?

[Kuya]

Derp derp derp

[Serif]

shit's getting cheaper and cheaper not to mention (at least in canada) that there are several government grants/bonus'/tax breaks that help bring that cost down even further

the average low/middle class family obviously doesn't have the money to dump 10-15k into personal infrastructure but with the way things are OBVIOUSLY going i've been putting money aside into 3-5 year mid-term GIC's with up to 5% interest rates in the last year that will be used to hopefully install panels when they come to term. hopefully in 5 years the prices will drop even more then they have in the past 10 and the CDN government will have even more/better grants in place to help get these done.

Oh I agree with you but the average low/middle class family doesn't even know what the word investment is. Don't get me wrong, I am all for solar panels and all the added benefits. I will, hopefully, invest in some solar panels when I build my first house. It is just the initial cost, no matter how much smaller it is, is still a large investment for the average low/middle class family.

Since you done so much research on this do you mind spouting some knowledge of prices and such? Can do in PM or whatever, just would be nice to get an idea on how much these items will cost if I do build my house.

[aru]

no geothermal or rainwater collection system Takedown3?

[Leif]

waterboarded (a technique that has not been classified as torture by anyone but Obama)

You say someone else has classified it as torture? Who? Anybody get convicted? Is it spelled out anywhere in the law that waterboarding = torture? Is anyone from the Bush administration sitting in a jail cell waiting to be executed for approving waterboarding? Is there any other criteria you would like to apply?

And yes, there are Republicans that are socially liberal. I can name dozens of people that I know. There isn't a set of beliefs that one must subscribe to in order to be a Republican. You can even be a liberal voting for the weakest candidate.