Large Hardon Collider

[Mizango]

If Zelduh wasn't a dumb ass and if I hadn't heard that joke for half a decade....

[Zelduh]

My, that's quite large.

http://i28.tinypic.com/33mtmko.gif

[Mizango]

Case in point.

[Eliseos]

I'm pretty sure you guys are missing the point: Electrons may have dipole moments!

[miokomioko]

I'm just jealous of whoever's going to activate it late at night,alone, during an electrical storm, get teleported to another planet where he and an alien fugitive become allies and work together to eventually escape a supressive empire and its military on the back of a large and winged creature.

[Max™]

Except the part bolded doesnt work, as the person on the earth side cant enter the wormhole 1000 years later and come out 5million years later, as 1000 earth years would only net a few years on the space ship. @4951 AD, the person on earth would enter the wormhole and arive on the ship that had only been traveling for a few days.

And Kip Thorne didnt solve reverse time paradoxes, so his solution is also impossible.

The form Kip worked out suggested that time would work in a certain manner through a wormhole, such that synchronized clocks at either end will appear to remain as such to an observer traversing it. The portal at the far future end would be a little piece of 4951 AD dragged deep downstream into time.

1000 years on Earth wouldn't take you to the ship a few days after it left in subjective time, a few days Earth time would. From the reference frame of the stationary terminus, you would be traveling far more than a few days into the future, not less. Not sure where you're getting that idea.

Waiting 1000 years on Earth then passing through the wormhole would put you on the ship 1000 subjective years after it left, it is only upon returning to a rest frame adjacent the stationary terminus, where you can truly determine which observer was accelerated, that the dilation incurred becomes obvious.

Assuming both wormholes survived indefinitely, passing through the one left on Earth circa 5,000,000 AD would have you exit the one from the ship in 10,000,000 AD. Reversing your journey, entering the dilated terminus, would let you hop back to 5,000,000 AD, and then again back to 4951 AD.

[Neosutra]

No.

Take another look at it Max.

If the ship left at .9999c and you sat on earth for 1000 years, then jumped through the wormhole to get onto the ship, the ship would have only been traveling for:

T' = T/sqrt((.9999c)^2/c^) = 14 years.

It's not a matter of my perspective being wrong, it's a matter of you not following the time dilation equation.

Every 1.4 years on the ship, 100 years passes on earth. If you stand on earth for 1000 years, only 14 years have passed aboard the ship.

Going through the wormhole after standing on earth for 1000 years would get you aboard the ship that's been traveling for 14 years(according to the people onboard) and thus has 986 years left on it's 1000 year voyage.

edit: Additionally, the wormhole you postulate (where an observer looking through it on earth sees a clock on the ship moving at the same speed as if it were on earth) is a paradox that violates causality.

Here let me paint this picture for you:

Man on earth is X.
Spaceship is Y.

At start they are this close:
X--Y.

After 1 year on earth, they are this far apart:

X---------Y.

However, it's been 1 year on earth (with the guy staring through the wormhole for a year at a clock on the ship). On the ship, it's been about 5 days. (with the guy on the ship staring through the wormhole for 5 days at the clock on earth). The guy on earth would have noticed the clock on the ship has only ticked for 5 days. The guy on the ship would notice one year has passed on the clock on earth.

After 1000 years, they are this far apart:

X-------------------------------------------------------------Y.

The guy on earth has been sitting (rather bored) in his lawnchair for 1000 years staring through the wormhole at the clock on the ship, which has only ticked for 14 years. The guy on the ship has been sitting (not quite as bored as the guy on earth) for 14 years, watching the earth clock count for 1000 years.

If the man on earth said "fuck it, today I'm stepping through the wormhole". He would arrive on the ship just 14 years after it left (relative to the people aboard the ship).

That's how it works without a paradox based on our current knowledge of time dilation.

[Effluo]

I saw this movie on TV the other day, and it really got me thinking. It showed the LHC up and running and they were able to make Anti-Matter. Why haven't we heard more about this, and why haven't they found the Higgs by now if they can do that?

[Neosutra]

Because anti-matter isnt anything special?

We've known about the positron for decades.

Finding (the imaginary) Higgs particle isnt remotely the same as producing anti-particles Q.Q

[Max™]

You're assuming the end of the wormhole on the ship is not undergoing time dilation.

You're pointing out that 1000 years Earth time -----> 14 subjective years on the ship, which is fine.

The portal on the other end would connect to a point 1000 subjective years in the future according to the thought experiment set up by Thorne and others, which would put it much further in the future in the Earth frame.

[Gadritan]

I saw this movie on TV the other day, and it really got me thinking. It showed the LHC up and running and they were able to make Anti-Matter. Why haven't we heard more about this, and why haven't they found the Higgs by now if they can do that?

Angels & Demons? It's a movie?

Edit: Fuck me, nvm. Brain got scrambled lurking this thread trying to comprehend it all. Can't wait to get back into school.

[Neosutra]

You're assuming the end of the wormhole on the ship is not undergoing time dilation.

You're pointing out that 1000 years Earth time -----> 14 subjective years on the ship, which is fine.

The portal on the other end would connect to a point 1000 subjective years in the future according to the thought experiment set up by Thorne and others, which would put it much further in the future in the Earth frame.

Saying the portal goes through time dilation is like saying "and then we put a magic door to the future at the end of this equation".

You're basically saying "the portal on the ship is traveling with the ship, but isnt having time slowed down on it's side due to traveling at .9999c, yet at the same time exists with the ship at their .9999c frame of reference".

It's just wrong.

[Kaylia]

I'm pretty sure you guys are missing the point: Electrons may have dipole moments!

But dipole are no wormhole...whats the point of this?



The article made me curious about one thing, if these dipoles are defined from the spin (parallel/antiparallel), why is it a new properties? Can't we simply use these dipoles to explain the spin? Can we talk about new properties if it's dependant of an existing one?

It's a shame there is no experimental results yet, gonna be interesting if it end up being true.

[Max™]

Saying the portal goes through time dilation is like saying "and then we put a magic door to the future at the end of this equation".

You're basically saying "the portal on the ship is traveling with the ship, but isnt having time slowed down on it's side due to traveling at .9999c, yet at the same time exists with the ship at their .9999c frame of reference".

It's just wrong.

No, I'm saying the portal on the ship is having it's time slowed down.

[Neosutra]

As am I....

It's traveling with the ship, so it's in the ship's reference frame.

Hence your postulated scenario is impossible.

[Tristam]

It's a shame there is no experimental results yet, gonna be interesting if it end up being true.

I've said this about so many of my failed experiments.

[Max™]

As am I....

It's traveling with the ship, so it's in the ship's reference frame.

Hence your postulated scenario is impossible.

Wasn't my postulate, it was Kip Thorne, I just related it's use from a sci fi story I liked.

You're treating the end on the ship as if it's traveling through time at the same rate as the end on Earth, instead of experiencing the same elapsed amount of subjective time which the wormhole conditions require.

[Neosutra]

No, actually I'm just relating to you that if the ship end of the wormhole is in the ship's reference frame, it will experience the same time dilation.

But I'm tired of arguing about it, so have fun with that theory.

[Tyche]

Didn't want to make a new thread since i figured a vast majority could help me here...

Friend sent me a chem test to take for her. I had trouble with 3 questions. I haven't taken chem since 2nd semester 2002. Anyone care to jump in?

16. The gas in a cylinder at 20.0 deg C exerts a pressure of 200 atm. The cylinder is
heated to a temperature of 200 deg C. To what value will the pressure rise assuming
the cylinder volume does not change? (having trouble with this one because I don't know the initial volume, and don't really know how to set this up)

a. 484 atm. b. 223 atm. c. 2000 atm. d. 20 atm.
e. none of the above

19. The pH of many cola ‑ type drinks is about 3.0. How many times
greater is the hydronium ion concentration in these drinks than
in neutral water? (10^-3 vs 10^-7, so A)?

a. 10,000 times b. 1,000 c. 7,000 times d. 100,000 times
e. none of the above, pH of water and most colas are the same.


_____ 21. Changing the temperature of 4.0 mol of hydrogen gas at
constant pressure from 100 deg C to 200 K will

a. increase its mass by a factor of three.
b. decrease the volume that the gas occupies.
c. increase the kinetic energy of the hydrogen molecules.
d. decrease the density by a factor of two

[Kaylia]

Didn't want to make a new thread since i figured a vast majority could help me here...

Friend sent me a chem test to take for her. I had trouble with 3 questions. I haven't taken chem since 2nd semester 2002. Anyone care to jump in?

16. The gas in a cylinder at 20.0 deg C exerts a pressure of 200 atm. The cylinder is
heated to a temperature of 200 deg C. To what value will the pressure rise assuming
the cylinder volume does not change? (having trouble with this one because I don't know the initial volume, and don't really know how to set this up)

a. 484 atm. b. 223 atm. c. 2000 atm. d. 20 atm.
e. none of the above

19. The pH of many cola ‑ type drinks is about 3.0. How many times
greater is the hydronium ion concentration in these drinks than
in neutral water? (10^-3 vs 10^-7, so A)?

a. 10,000 times b. 1,000 c. 7,000 times d. 100,000 times
e. none of the above, pH of water and most colas are the same.


_____ 21. Changing the temperature of 4.0 mol of hydrogen gas at
constant pressure from 100 deg C to 200 K will

a. increase its mass by a factor of three.
b. decrease the volume that the gas occupies.
c. increase the kinetic energy of the hydrogen molecules.
d. decrease the density by a factor of two

#16
You need to understand ideal gas law
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideal_gas_law

Basically, the pressure increase proportionally to the temperature when everything else remain constant. As long you don't forget to change your celcius to kelvin, it's very easy to find the proportion.




#19
pH scales with a log (power), so I would go with 10 000 as well. I'm not certain, but the other answer make even less sense, all I know is the concentration in water is 50/50.

#20

PV= nRT
P, n, R remains constant
T decrease (100 C to 200 k...terrible question to trick student)

There is only 1 possible answer in the list