Large Hardon Collider

[BerenTebogo]

Sath is a physics major. So out of the math courses he's actually required to take (calc1,2,3/diffEQ), calc 2 is usually the hardest for most people. If he was a math major things would be different.

Edit: My bad, i didn't read because I'm an idiot.

Edit 2: As a math major, the hardest class depends on what you like doing. For the students I TA, they seem to unanimously agree that advanced calc/intro analysis is the hardest undergraduate math class (which for the most part is just a higher version of calc 2, or at least it seems that way with how we teach it here). For me, advanced calc/intro analysis was insanely easy, as was every other undergraduate math course. Things didn't start getting hard until I started signing up for graduate special topics classes in group theory.

Yeah the only difference to what is on my curriculum for physics is that I'm following your advice and taking linear algebra. After second Calc 2 exam I have a like 99.x in the class thanks to a bonus question on this last test.

I'm struggling to keep my A from slipping to an A- in physics. Granted the teachers are drastically different (a math teacher who wants to see people succeed vs. a physics teacher who wants to see people fail) it's still really frustrating for me since I wanna do as well in physics as I am in my math classes.

Edit: Well, I have a solid A+ in Physics at the moment but the upcoming test in 2~ weeks has me massively nervous.

[Woozie]

Out of Calc I-IV I would definitely say I had the most trouble with Calc II. Not because it was hard, just because I thought learning so many integration techniques was completely pointless and had to force myself to study. And to be honest, since taking Calc II the only two techniques I've had to use were integration by parts and u-substitution. Had a much easier time with infinite series, despite having to memorize all the tests for convergence I thought it was pretty interesting.



Being a math major is completely different than even being a math minor at my school. I've talked to a girl who said she managed to get a minor in math without having to take a calc class beyond Calc II, which I thought was a waste. Math majors are much more focused on proof based classes rather than problem solving. I'm actually taking Advanced Calc this semester, and I'm gonna have to agree with your students Woozie. I'm having a pretty hard time with it, mostly because my professor is incredibly rigorous. She'll prove something in class and I'll have trouble understanding her method. Then I'll look at our textbook's logic for the same theorem and it'll make complete sense. The problem is the same level of rigor my professor uses in class, is the same level on her exams.

Edit: I also wouldn't really call Advanced Calc a higher version of Calc II, it could be different at your school though. We spent almost half of the semester working through proofs for convergence of sequences. We're just now getting into convergence of actual functions and delta-epsilon style proofs. The way it's looking I doubt we'll even get to spend more than a week or two on integration, which was at least half of Calc II for me.

The reason I compared it to Calc 2 is because of the heavy emphasis on sequences and series, and the fact that our professor told us "To understand this section you should review <subject> from calc 2. But yeah, I guess you're right, there is a pretty heavy amount of epsilon/delta and limit proofs too. I'm actually a TA for Advanced Calc/Intro Analysis this semester and the parts my students seem to have the most trouble on is stuff related to calc 2.

And yeah, a math minor is a joke....At some schools it's just calc 1 through 3 plus diffEQ (i.e. the same core requirements every non math major has to take if his/her field depends on math at all). Even education majors take way more math than math minors at my school.

Actually, to be fair, education majors take more math than math majors at my school.

Are you theoretical or applied, Ferion?

Also, I want to point out that I'm not so sure where calc I ends, where calc 2 begins, and where 2 ends and 3 begins. And I'd be even more confused at your school, which apparently divided it into 4 (are you on quarters or something?). I never actually took the classes for calc 2 or 3. I tested out. I'm just assuming calc II was mostly the sequences and series since that's where the professors always said to review when we were going over that stuff. I thought techniques of integration was part of calc 1.

[BerenTebogo]

Since astrophysics is (unofficially but in last stage of approval) it's own undergrad major now at my school I might take on a math minor once I make the switch to Astro major. I'll be taking all the classes anyways + linear alg. and it'll look good on my transcript so why not.

[Woozie]

May as well. You'll have all the classes you need for a math minor anyways, so why not get the piece of paper saying so? Our education majors and engineers typically do the same thing.

[Ferion]

Also, I want to point out that I'm not so sure where calc I ends, where calc 2 begins, and where 2 ends and 3 begins. And I'd be even more confused at your school, which apparently divided it into 4 (are you on quarters or something?). I never actually took the classes for calc 2 or 3. I tested out. I'm just assuming calc II was mostly the sequences and series since that's where the professors always said to review when we were going over that stuff. I thought techniques of integration was part of calc 1.

Haha by Calc IV I meant Differential Equations. I probably shouldn't use that term as it is pretty misleading. I've become accustomed to it though since half of the engineers I've talked to have called Diffy Qs Calc IV. It's also way easier to just refer to the calc sequence as I-IV than having to individually write out I-III and Differential Equations. But anyway, Calc I ended for me right after learning the basics of integration. Calc II picked up right after that with the more advanced techniques of integration and ended with infinite series and convergence of integrals. At my school, Calc III is actually called Multi-variable Calculus. So we started learning about vectors, gradients, partial derivatives, constrained optimization, and double/triple integrals at this point. I pretty much assumed that class topics were pretty similar at most schools except for a few variations, but I could be completely wrong.

Are you theoretical or applied, Ferion?

To be honest, I have no idea. You don't really need to pick one or the other at my school. Is that something you need to actually declare where you're going, or is it just a title based on the classes you take? At least half of my math classes beyond the calc sequence were theoretical. I honestly find them more interesting, but they are much more difficult for me than applied. I have to work very hard at them to get decent grades. I'm only taking Advanced Calc and Numerical Analysis this semester. Even though I'm kind of struggling with Calc, I still like it a lot more than Numerical Analysis. I guess it doesn't really help that I find NA to be one of the most uninteresting classes I've ever taken though.

[Woozie]

At my school, theoretical and applied math are two completely different majors and have completely different sets of requirements. Also, applied math majors have to pick a "focus" area (e.g. physics, economics, biology, etc) and take classes in that area as well.

I'm also taking numerical analysis (we call it "Numerical Methods") this semester even though I'm theoretical. I never imagined I could truly hate a math class, but yeah....

This doesn't even feel like real math to me. But then again, that's probably the same thing applied people say when they're in theoretical classes. Either way, I'm never taking a class in applied math again. It's so mind-numbingly boring and I can't bring myself to put in enough effort to get a decent grade in the class.

Edit: Unfortunately, the applied people get all the best jobs. Also, although I said I'll never take an applied math class again, I'll probably end up taking Numerical Methods II since I'm going into physics and it will probably be useful

[Eliseos]

Here's what my school does for calc1/2/3 and diff eqs:

MATH-231: Calculus and Analytic Geometry (4 units; U; NS) up
Limits, derivatives, and graphs of algebraic, trigonometric, exponential, and logarithmic functions; antiderivatives, the definite integral, and the fundamental theorem of calculus, with applications.

MATH-232: Calculus and Analytic Geometry (4 units; U) up
Continuation of Math 231. Applications of integration, techniques of integration; infinite sequences and series; parametric equations, conic sections, and polar coordinates.

MATH-233: Calculus and Analytic Geometry (4 units; U) up
Continuation of Math 232. Three-dimensional analytic geometry and vectors; partial derivatives; multiple integrals; vector calculus, with applications.

MATH-234: Linear Algebra and Differential Equations (4 units; U)
Elementary differential equations. Vectors; matrices; linear transformations; quadratic forms; eigenvalues; applications.

Yeah, we have combined linear algebra and diff eqs

For what it's worth, Calc1-3 were the same at my current school as well as South Carolina, I have no idea about the 234 class.

[Ferion]

At my school, theoretical and applied math are two completely different majors and have completely different sets of requirements. Also, applied math majors have to pick a "focus" area (e.g. physics, economics, biology, etc) and take classes in that area as well.

I have mixed feelings about having to declare being applied or theoretical, especially with having to pick a focus area. Are the requirements drastically different or are there just some variations in the courses once you get to upper level classes? I really enjoy the freedom of being able to take any class. Especially since with economics, applied classes are very useful but what really matters for grad school applications are theoretical/proof based classes.

I'm also taking numerical analysis (we call it "Numerical Methods") this semester even though I'm theoretical. I never imagined I could truly hate a math class, but yeah....

Haha it is literally the worst class I've taken so far. It especially doesn't help that my professor gives us programs that we can use for the homework, but are useless on exams, which gives me even less incentive to learn the material until right before the exam. Right now we're learning different integration methods, which I guess is kind of more interesting than things like the bisection method. To be honest, I thought it was basically going to be a lot of differential equations and linear algebra, but so far it is just a lot of guess/check with some differentiation thrown in. I'm not sure if you're taking the grad level course though so your class may be a lot more advanced than what I'm doing.

Yeah, we have combined linear algebra and diff eqs

To be honest, I kind of wish they would suggest for students to take Linear Algebra before Calc III so I don't think I would really mind combing them if they still covered the most useful material. For some reason, my school requires Calc II before Linear Algebra, which I find very weird since we never even used calc.

[Woozie]

I'm taking the same one undergraduates take (though I get graduate credit for it). There is a grad version, but screw that. We started out with iterative methods and now then went on to solutions of matrices. We're now doing interpolation and polynomial approximations.

The main difference between theoretical and applied here is that applied doesn't have to take Abstract Algebra or a stats class and theoretical doesn't have to take numerical methods or differential equations (nor do we have to take a bunch of classes from a "focus" area). As far as I know, theoretical math majors don't have to take DiffEQ either though that may have changed since our website says we do.

[Kaylia]

Starting to think Woozie has the right idea with the whole majoring in math thing. If Calc 2 is the hardest undergraduate math I'm excited.

It's the hardest undergraduate mathclass because linear algebra is a fucking joke, and calc 3 is usually not as bad as calc 2.

But imo, anything undergraduate is really easy compared to the hell that follow.

[Day]

I thought the title said hard on LOLOLOL

[Eliseos]

It used to. Was an April Fool's joke that went unnoticed/unfixed for a couple weeks.

[Max™]

Spoiler: show

http://media.ebaumsworld.com/mediaFi...396/930771.png

[Psion]

Lol.


And all this math terrifies me. What do I need to know as a chemist, mathwise? I mean, obviously basic algebra, which I wind up using all the time with variables, ratios, and the like, but is there things from trig I need? cal...calcu... god, I can't even say the dreaded word. Just wanna know what I should put my math focus in for what's actually useful to me, instead of taking math that only gets used by theoretical physicists, and no one else.

Even the trig class I'm taking now seems completely worthless for chemistry, but maybe, just maybe it gets more complicated down the line and trig becomes useful. But ulgh, I hope not. <.<

[Shiroikage]

gonna need to know calculus, bro

[Mizango]

gonna need to know calculus, bro

^

[Psion]

^

[Eliseos]

Time to take some big boy classes.

[BerenTebogo]

Take the hard classes now:

BAM! BIOLOGY
BAM! ALGEBRA 2!

You'll need them for college.

www.boostup.org

wait...what?

[Miragemaiden]

Don't worry, calc isn't bad at all. Not sure how it is in other schools, but pre-calc was the b*tch at UW vs. the rest of the series. So if you can make it over that hump, you're good. http://www.rx8club.com/images/smilies/cool.gif