Large Hardon Collider

[Woozie]

When you say astronomy, do you mean you want to actually be an astronomy major or a physics major with an astronomy focus/minor? Do you know what school you want to go to? If so, make sure they actually have astronomy as a major. Many schools do not.

I've never taken an astronomy class, so I can't be sure about what math you'll need. But I do share an office with the guy who teaches the astronomy classes and they hardly use any math. But if your school has an astronomy major (ours doesn't), then may be you'll be expected to know more math than the students in our astronomy class.

What instruments do you play? It's so weird how so many physics/science people play an instrument or sing. At my REUs, I always brought my piano (and my guitar to my last one) and we had plenty of physicists/chemists jam sessions since most of us played an instrument and/or sung.

Edit: My reading comprehension sucks today. Apparently you already know which schools have the astronomy major and which doesn't. Look at the schools you're thinking of going to and look at their astronomy program. It should have some sort of sample program to show what classes a typical astronomy major takes. This should give you at least some sort of idea of what math you'll be expected to know. For example, if you were a physics major at my school (since we don't have astro), you'd find this webpage

http://www.uakron.edu/physics/academ...uate/index.dot

(Sample curriculum at the bottom)

And you'd see that a physics student is expected to take calculus and calc-based physics the first year (at the same time, apparently. So they obviously assume the person has taken AP physics in high school). However, it's not unusual at all for someone to make it through the physics or engineering program here without having taken calculus in high school (and if it can be done for physicists and engineers, it can be done for astronomers). You could try checking the sample curriculum at some of the schools you're looking at to see what they expect you to take.

[Kaylia]

I am thinking about studying Astronomy(with minor is music) since it seems most of you guys do astronomy or cosmology,

I'm sorry for the confusion, but this is an astrology thread. We studies celestial bodies to find out our future, and guide us through our life.

Like right now, the relative positioning of the star tell me that the odds of finding a job after my degree are grim, and that I will be forever poor.

Has anyone known where the application of the math actually hindered a person from pursuing a career in this field?

Physics classes are 90% maths and 10% physics. It's possible to get away without doing too much maths at first, but it will get back to you sooner or later. So if there is something you shouldn't skip (or rush through), it's the math classes. Doing it slowly and seriously is the only way to go.

What instruments do you play? It's so weird how so many physics/science people play an instrument or sing. At my REUs, I always brought my piano (and my guitar to my last one) and we had plenty of physicists/chemists jam sessions since most of us played an instrument and/or sung.

I can't speak for other, but music is the best way for me to relax and forget about maths and sciences. I would go insane without break to change my ideas.

[WahiGuard]

When I say Astronomy I actually want to study Astro. Not Physics with applied astro Which both my state college`s only have(del state and university of delaware) I was well have been thinking of staying in state and doing a year or so of just gen math classes(like taking one or two classes) Since my AP results from high school would cover my history and english requirements. Then transfer if my grades are good enough to maybe Maryland or Penn State. Since most colleges offer Physics with emphasis on Astronomy.

Oh the reason so many science/physics students play an instrument is because art boosts the brain`s cognitive functions. Helps build parts of the brain useful for abstract thinking, which is what scientists and mathematicians need to be truly effective and help the field and our understanding grow. Here`s a quote by John Coltrane which might also explain the propensity of a scientist to be a musician; "All a musician can do is to get closer to the sources of nature, and so feel that he is in communion with the natural laws.”

So scientists try to get closer through mathematics and proofs, and most musicians(artists more exactly) try through emotion and math too.

And I play alto/tenor sax with some piano and studied for a semester at Berklee College of Music. So lol ya a big departure from what I was originally in school for. Lol is it supposed to be this hard to figure what to study? if only Uni was free and cheap I wouldn`t mind staying and studying both fully :/

[WahiGuard]

I'm sorry for the confusion, but this is an astrology thread. We studies celestial bodies to find out our future, and guide us through our life.

Like right now, the relative positioning of the star tell me that the odds of finding a job after my degree are grim, and that I will be forever poor.

Ahh k should I get my energy read to seen when the best time to go into the field? Consult the stars in Virgo?

Physics classes are 90% maths and 10% physics. It's possible to get away without doing too much maths at first, but it will get back to you sooner or later. So if there is something you shouldn't skip (or rush through), it's the math classes. Doing it slowly and seriously is the only way to go.

Ya I havw basic algebra trig geometry down. Lol I`d have to probably start at like college math or algebra. But I know I`d do it hardcore if it means getting to Astronomy classes or even Astrobiology.


I can't speak for other, but music is the best way for me to relax and forget about maths and sciences. I would go insane without break to change my ideas.

Seriously this, music is the only medicine to make bad days and random crap seem so insignificant.
oh and certain herb helps also >.>

[Woozie]

Music is more of a hindrance to me.

"I have an assignment due....but I just feel like playing piano right now. Assignments can wait"

I'm litterally doing that right now as we speak. The only reason I'm near my computer right now is because I needed to download audacity onto my new laptop to record a song I'm writing real quick before I forget it.

And, holy crap dude, you studied music at Berkley? That's so awesome.

If I get a chance to talk to an astronomy major any time soon (unlikely since I'm back at Akron and we don't have astro majors) I'll ask about the math. Otherwise, your best bet is to either hope an astro major posts here (I don't think anyone here is astro only) or to look at the sample curriculum on a school's website.

What do you plan to do as a career?

[Woozie]

Like right now, the relative positioning of the star tell me that the odds of finding a job after my degree are grim, and that I will be forever poor.

I've fallen to a whole new level of hopelessness. I spent my last two weeks talking to CS professors about bioinformatics PhD programs. I've reached the point where I'm considering careers that aren't physics at all just to get a job I'm now willing to settle for something that's at least both math and science.

















Don't tell Eli or Khamsin I said this, but I'm also strongly considering engineering now

[Kaylia]

I've fallen to a whole new level of hopelessness. I spent my last two weeks talking to CS professors about bioinformatics PhD programs. I've reached the point where I'm considering careers that aren't physics at all just to get a job I'm now willing to settle for something that's at least both math and science.

Same deal for me. I'm trying to transition to material sciences to increase the odds of finding something...physics alone is nearly hopeless unless you become a teacher, and I don't believe I have the skill for that.

Music is more of a hindrance to me.

"I have an assignment due....but I just feel like playing piano right now. Assignments can wait"

I'm litterally doing that right now as we speak. The only reason I'm near my computer right now is because I needed to download audacity onto my new laptop to record a song I'm writing real quick before I forget it.

Don't delude yourself, you would replace music with something even less constructive!

I already tried to lock myself in my room with nothing but my books, and the first thing I realized is that it was the next morning already. I fell aslept at 8pm after 20min.

[Kaylia]

When I say Astronomy I actually want to study Astro. Not Physics with applied astro Which both my state college`s only have(del state and university of delaware) I was well have been thinking of staying in state and doing a year or so of just gen math classes(like taking one or two classes) Since my AP results from high school would cover my history and english requirements. Then transfer if my grades are good enough to maybe Maryland or Penn State. Since most colleges offer Physics with emphasis on Astronomy

I never heard of a major in astro that didn't have physics. I can't say it doesn't exist, but it would surprise me a bit if it does.

Do you have any ideas what kind of classes you would attend? We could probably give you a better estimate of how much maths you need if we had that.

[WahiGuard]

And, holy crap dude, you studied music at Berkley? That's so awesome.

If I get a chance to talk to an astronomy major any time soon (unlikely since I'm back at Akron and we don't have astro majors) I'll ask about the math. Otherwise, your best bet is to either hope an astro major posts here (I don't think anyone here is astro only) or to look at the sample curriculum on a school's website.

What do you plan to do as a career?

thanks I get that every time I mention I study there. I honestly didn`t know the reputation of the school when I applied auditioned. The end of my Junior year I said " I wanna go there" and practiced and auditioned the following year lol.

I checked out Penn State`s Astro. sample schedule and the first four semesters math wise it`s Calc with analytic geom I/II the Calc with Vector Analysis then Partial and Differential Equations. Throw in general Newtonian Physics with Elec + Magnetism and Fluid and Thermal physics. Oh and a few courses on general Chemistry also.
After those four semesters I have the option of choosing astro with computer programming emphasis or a graduate study option which to me seems more physics with advanced calc. Oh and I would take astro4xxW more astrobiology intro to astrophysics and the such.
But reading the math requirements I would be best starting at College lvl Algebra(since i really haven`t taken a math course since junior year) with Trig then do a calc course and see if that would be enough to transfer over to Penn.

But ya career wise I still want to perform. Just confusing would feel like I am starting over when I know I shouldn`t since I only graduated high school barely a year ago :/
But looking out to the stars working for NASA finding new galaxies has always been a dream of mine( albeit it comes off a bit romantic haha)

And thanks that would be awesome to know what an actual Astronomer has to say as the required math of the profession.


linky of Samplehttp://www.astro.psu.edu/images/pdfs/recplancmpsc.pdf CompSci emphasis

Graduate with more math and physicshttp://www.astro.psu.edu/images/pdfs/recplangrdst.pdf

and full course listings of their department http://www.astro.psu.edu/academics/course-listing

edited for offerings.

[Woozie]

From the looks of it, you're going to be following a path very similar to that of a physics major. I checked MSU's requirements out of curiosity (the only school I know of with Astro majors) and theirs is also combined with physics. So math is going to be very important. Since you wont be able to take calculus your very first semester, you're going to be a semester behind, which isn't that big of a deal, really. You will have to do a lot of math overall though. And if you have to eventually take E&M or Mechanics, then you better learn to really enjoy doing math.

[Kaylia]

I checked out Penn State`s Astro. sample schedule and the first four semesters math wise it`s Calc with analytic geom I/II the Calc with Vector Analysis then Partial and Differential Equations. Throw in general Newtonian Physics with Elec + Magnetism and Fluid and Thermal physics. Oh and a few courses on general Chemistry also.

What you listed here is pretty close to a physics major, with the exception of quantum mechanics, and possibly electromagnetism (depend how far you get in elec+magnetism). You can expect to see a decent level of mathematics, and because of that, you should really get the proper background (unless you're dedicated and can learn stuff on your own, but i wouldn't count on that)

But looking out to the stars working for NASA finding new galaxies has always been a dream of mine( albeit it comes off a bit romantic haha)

And thanks that would be awesome to know what an actual Astronomer has to say as the required math of the profession.

I might sound a little harsh, but reality in sciences is completely differents from what people think. Everyone loves to dream about black holes, quasars, galaxies or super nova, but that's not what you're going to be observing. Instead, you will have a long list of data that give you the intensity, the frequency, or wavelength, and analysing this data will require a lot of maths and physics.

Unless you're a guide in a public observatory, looking at the sky just to look at the sky isn't something you will do. Sure, there might be a few people at the Nasa who hunt good looking pictures, but I wouldn't count on that.

[Eliseos]

Sure, there might be a few people at the Nasa who hunt good looking pictures, but I wouldn't count on that.

Going to be even less if they don't get the funding for Webb, last I heard their latest budget cut wouldn't have enough funding for it.

[Kuya]

Results from the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) have all but killed the simplest version of an enticing theory of sub-atomic physics.

Researchers failed to find evidence of so-called "supersymmetric" particles, which many physicists had hoped would plug holes in the current theory.

The experiment looked at the decay of particles called "B-mesons" in hitherto unprecedented detail.

If supersymmetric particles exist, B-mesons ought to decay far more often than if they do not exist.

There also ought to be a greater difference in the way matter and antimatter versions of these particles decay.

The results had been eagerly awaited following hints from earlier results, most notably from the Tevatron particle accelerator in the US, that the decay of B-mesons was influenced by supersymmetric particles.

LHCb's more detailed analysis however has failed to find this effect

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-14680570

Could someone explain supersimmetry to me in detail? Like, how does it explain dark matter?

[Eliseos]

Don't tell Eli or Khamsin I said this, but I'm also strongly considering engineering now

I almost missed this!

[Woozie]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-14680570

Could someone explain supersimmetry to me in detail? Like, how does it explain dark matter?

My explanation is going to contain a lot of things you probably already know. I'm just typing out a full explanation in case someone reading this doesn't know some of this.
As you probably already know, all particles in the universe fall into two categories. Either they have a spin of 1/2, 3/2, etc (a half integer spin) or they have an integer spin 0, 1, 2, etc. Particles with half integer spin are fermions and particles with integer spins are bosons. Fermions and bosons act differently and are described by different mathematics. Electrons, protons, neutrons, quarks, and other familar forms of matter are fermions*. Photons (particles of light) are a type of boson. The particles that carry the four fundemental forces of the universe are bosons (for example, gravity is supposedly mediated by a particle with spin 2).

An important difference between bosons and fermions is that fermions obey the Pauli Exclusion Principle. In other words, you cannot have two fermions in the exact same quantum state. This is why electrons in an atom occupy different shells or energy levels. A hydrogen atom has one electron which is in the lowest shell. Helium has two electrons, both in the lowest shells, but with opposite spins (that way they have different quantum numbers and do not violate the exclusion principle). The third electron is in an entirely different orbital because every state in the first orbital has already been taken. If electrons were bosons, every electron in any atom would all fall into the very first state instead of occupying the higher energy orbitals.

So anyways, supersymmetry is a mathematical theory that was proposed to solve a few problems in theoretical physics and quantum field theory. One of the predictions of supersymmetry is that for every type of fermion, there exist a corresponding boson, and for every boson, there's a corresponding fermion. So since electrons exist and are fermions, there must exist a "partner" particle which we call the "selectron". The selectron must be a boson since the electron is a fermion, and if I'm not mistaken, the super particles are always heavier than the regular particle and has the same charge. I could be wrong about that.

The same thing goes for every other particle. Since photons are bosons, there must be some other particle (we call "Photino", I think) which is it's super particle and is a fermion. If I was right about being more massive, then I'm not sure how things work for massless particles such as the photon.

It turns out, none of the particles we know of can possibly be the super particle of any other known particle. So this means we coincidentally live in a universe where we don't observe any super particles. There are explanations as to why this may be and this leads us to some testable predictions (which are apparently failing, according to your article).

Some of the predicted super particles have properties similar to the predicted properties of dark matter, which leads some to propose that perhaps some of the dark matter we observe are super particles.

*Technically, normal matter can be fermions or bosons. The constituent particles are all fermions, but if you put two fermions together, their spins will add to an integer (for example, an electron has a spin of plus or minus 1/2. If you have two of them together, their spins add up to 1, 0, or -1. Another example is the nucleus of the Helium 4 atom, which has two protons and two neutrons and is thus a boson). When normal matter is paired in such a way as to form bosons, you can get some weird effects such as superconductivity (which is a result of electrons forming pairs) or superfluids.

[Psion]

So uh, supersymmetry is a bust then? Does that mean all that's left is the much despised string "theories"? <_<;

That's gotta sting if so...

[Khamsin]

One of the predictions of supersymmetry is that for every type of fermion, there exist a corresponding boson, and for every boson, there's a corresponding fermion. So since electrons exist and are fermions, there must exist a "partner" particle which we call the "selectron".

...

It turns out, none of the particles we know of can possibly be the super particle of any other known particle.

So what was the original reasoning behind thinking there must be partner super particles, if we've never known of any?

[Woozie]

So uh, supersymmetry is a bust then? Does that mean all that's left is the much despised string "theories"? <_<;

That's gotta sting if so...

Actually, every string theory that people actually care about requires supersymmetry to be true. So if supersymmetry goes down, string theory goes down with it.

[Woozie]

So what was the original reasoning behind thinking there must be partner super particles, if we've never known of any?

The math of the theory predicts that such particles exist.

[Kuya]

Alright, thanks for explaining woozie.