Large Hardon Collider

[Odon]

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-...34446796_n.jpg

That's a really stupid fucking thing to say when it's a conglomeration of scientists from many different nations, including Americans.

[Chun Liroy]

Did you just call NDT stupid you pill popping mouth breather.

[Kryssan]

That's a really stupid fucking thing to say when it's a conglomeration of scientists from many different nations, including Americans.

Not certain if serious... but, in case - read into what I said above about SSC. Or what NDT said in his address most recently to Congress or the 28th NSS.

[Woozie]

^ what he said. America was supposed to have a collider even more powerful than the LHC. Not only did we cut that project, but we also slashed the budget for Fermilab to the point where we had to shut it down in September. So yes, the LHC finding the Higgs does remind us of how we suck at science. If we didn't, Higgs would have been found in Illinois or Texas, not Switzerland.

[Woozie]

To answer Kuya's question, I don't think there are any practical applications of finding the Higgs other than any practical applications that may arise from the standard model of particle physics itself (like medical uses. The vast majority of particle accelerators in use today are in hospitals for use by doctors. Only about 10% are for science use. But these are uses we've had well before finding the Higgs, obviously). What this finding really does for us is confirm that the standard model is in fact accurate. I don't think it really gives us anything new. I've never heard of any way that the Higgs could actually be useful to us, nor can I think of any. It's a massive boson (so it's hard to produce and decays into lighter stuff fast quickly after being produced) and has no charge (so we can't control it with magnets or even detect its existence directly) so I can't imagine it being useful any time soon.

But the finding does tell us that the standard model is still accurate up to these energies, at least. So if technology progresses to the point where we can produce these energies in any ol lab or hospital or whatever, then the standard model will be important for engineers and scientists doing R&D to know, just as engineers have to learn fluid dynamics/thermodynamics/whatever when working on stuff where these are relevant.

[Odon]

Not certain if serious... but, in case - read into what I said above about SSC. Or what NDT said in his address most recently to Congress or the 28th NSS.

^ what he said. America was supposed to have a collider even more powerful than the LHC. Not only did we cut that project, but we also slashed the budget for Fermilab to the point where we had to shut it down in September. So yes, the LHC finding the Higgs does remind us of how we suck at science. If we didn't, Higgs would have been found in Illinois or Texas, not Switzerland.

I'm aware of the SSC debacle.



This was a global undertaking, who gives a fuck where it was done, it had to be put somewhere. It was done by humanity not by anyone in particular.
The more we work together the better off we will be as a race. Maybe I'm reading too far into what he said but personally I'd rather see the world unite around this type of stuff and not have it all go to one country.

http://cerncourier.com/cws/article/cern/28486
http://www.uslhc.us/The_US_and_the_LHC

[Woozie]

I think you are reading too far into it. I'm 100% sure NDT is happy that the Higgs was found, regardless of where. The world is certainly united on this project. NDT's comment was taking a jab at our government to express his anger of how we continually slash our science budget. His comment was probably nothing more than a criticism of our government's policies, and perhaps a criticism of some other aspects of our culture. I don't think he actually cares who discovers what first and who gets a man on mars or whatever first as long as it gets done. What he does care about is how our government and culture approaches scientific research and education. He's pointing at the LHC finding and saying "see what the SSC could have done for us? Science is useful yet we defund it even though it would only require a small fraction of our spending to fund it."

[Kryssan]

I'm aware of the SSC debacle.



This was a global undertaking, who gives a fuck where it was done, it had to be put somewhere. It was done by humanity not by anyone in particular.
The more we work together the better off we will be as a race. Maybe I'm reading too far into what he said but personally I'd rather see the world unite around this type of stuff and not have it all go to one country.

http://cerncourier.com/cws/article/cern/28486
http://www.uslhc.us/The_US_and_the_LHC

I am aware of who is doing what. And even in multiple countries coop'ing on something, like with ISS and JET, to which I have no issue.

However, here is the issue, and where NDT strikes true; SSC was down in 1993. When that happened, a lot of the brainpower here involved went over there, since there was nothing here for them. The same would have happened with Webb / Hubble, hence my earlier question. This has been years upon years in the making, and the salt is only further rubbed into the wound by the fact is we've shown as a nation how little we care when we make such decisions with regards to science as we have.

[Odon]

Fair enough.

[Dotsudoku]

His comment is a lot easier to metabolize when you remember that's he's talking about America and Europe, not Americans and Europeans; not with regard to the capabilities of the respective nations' citizens, but with the restrictions put in or not put in place by their governments.

[Mizango]

His comment is a lot easier to metabolize when you remember that's he's talking about America and Europe, not Americans and Europeans; not with regard to the capabilities of the respective nations' citizens, but with the restrictions put in or not put in place by their governments.

Perfectly stated.

[RKenshin]

I tried to discuss the awesomeness of this news with a friend that SUPPOSEDLY loved physics/science/space (and even took grad classes in physics), only to find out that they not only didn't know wtf I was talking about but never even heard of the particle accelerator. Wtf?

[Mizango]

There are a lot of "Physics lovers" that front as smart because they took a class or because they watch the Discovery channel, lol. I have a few of those in my life too

[Mizango]

General Math you say? Yes, I am ready to sit atop my perch and reign down from the fabled Lucasian chair.


Fuck yeah.

[Quicklet]

It's probably because the conversation didn't involve black holes or the multiverse.

[Eliseos]

There are a lot of "Physics lovers" that front as smart because they took a class or because they watch the Discovery channel, lol. I have a few of those in my life too

I once took algebra in college.

[Tyche]

My last math class was 2003. I think I had physics in 04. And it was only because I had to. I hate math. I hate it with every fiber of my being. I'm p sure I learned more reading The Elegant Universe and The First Three Minutes than I ever did in either of those classes.

And Science channel > Discovery. TSC shows both "Through the Wormhole" and "Firefly" reruns.

[Dimmauk]

I tried explaining the news to my wife, and it was like her ADD kicked in the second I got into the nerd zone.

[Woozie]

I once took algebra in college.

Every college student goes through the "experimenting with algebra" phase, but for me Real Analysis gives a way better high.

[Eliseos]

Math is a gateway drug.