Large Hardon Collider

[Mizango]

Ooooooooh excellent questions!

How much would you care about Earth if you could simply go anywhere and survive anything?

Ok, this is a generalization not turning this into a Jones or Lief vs Science thread lol.

But that's the point, most of us wouldn't. Unfortunately 90% of our planet is made of of drones that believe we can rape, pillage and strip mine our little planet because somewhere far away there is just this magical person that needs no creator or beginning and that he gave us this planet to do what we want with it, so as a species we throw caution to the wind and assume that magic will take care of us and replenish all that is gone.

We can rape the ozone, because he will fix it. We can use all of our fossil fuels and non-renewable resources because he will fix it. We can build bigger, taller and faster with wreckless abandon because why? Because he will bail us out and fix it. Sadly this is the way a majority of humanity thinks, we just do whatever, whenever we feel like it because it is our God given right. Which is jeopardizing your kids and your kid's, kid's future on myth and legend.

I for one believe that if we were to colonize we should screen people and leave others here on Earth purely for rapture purposes so people can live out their fantasies. People have an unwarranted sense of self entitlement and self worth and I think that they would see the Cosmos as our god given playground to do as we please. Which is just wrong on so many levels no matter your belief system. I mean we as a species obviously never learn from our mistakes, so I think the old adage about "a leopard never changing its spots" would hold true for us as a whole.

That is an excellent question Khamsin.

Think humans will be able to at least travel to the next solar system (and colonize something) by the time our sun goes nova?

Absolutely.

That gives us roughly 4 Billion years to clear out of town. We are already working on propulsion technologies, wormhole technology and the likes just now. I mean even in theory and the experimental phase this is a nice start and should push us into being a Galactic civilization in less than a Billion years.

Times may vary on that but you would be hard pressed to find people that would disagree with our chances of intergalactic survival.

As far as colonization goes that is a resounding yes. I think we will begin to see settlements becoming a reality as early as 2020-2030. We have been working just on that project alone for the past 15 years and have made absolutely astonishing gains in that area alone. You will see slight colonization in our lifetime, I mean 30 years ago the ISS and having people live there was merely a pipe dream. Now its as run as the mill as going to work.

On a side note, what effect has our ability to use technology had on evolution as it affects modern humans (versus it's effect on prior human species and other forms of life)?

Technology has and will continue to lead us to things like larger brain size and higher IQs but much more frail and vulnerable. We have completely transitioned from hunter/gatherer to full fledged Technoids. Most of the population has no survival instinct whatsoever left.

Imagine trying to coerce your mother or GF in eating pieces of road kill or into drinking urine as a source of water and food when times get hard. Many of you all would starve and not know the beginning of how to live if things were to just go down. You see how up in arms people get when they go without power for 3 days or longer, sup Katrina lol. I mean most people wont try Sushi because it is raw fish, crab or Octopus.

Prior species were boom or bust in many ways. When food was plentiful and settlements were abundant the human species exploded, when those food stores were low and weather was inclimate we hit periods of bust. People abandoning babies and children, weak and sick dying off and often left behind etc.. common things you see today in Wildebeast and other animals.

A pack mentality yet its truly survival of the fittest in every sense of the word. We lost that along the way and I don't see it coming back anytime soon. We made the trade off from raw, brute strength to being more logical and thinking species.

Will humans continue to evolve or will they devolve as technology advances over the next few million years?

Well that is tricky, because you're walking a fine, fine line. We will continue evolving by devolving if that makes sense. As we continues to live longer, grow taller, grow faster and IQs go up and up we will certainly see that kind of growth but we will continue to lose our most basic and primal instincts. The very trait that got us this far. Now everything is about calculated risks and risk management.

Then again progress is a process and you have to give something to gain something. Think of it as equivalent exchange :3 (I knew my avatar would come into play one day) So that is a fine line we walk but deep down we are very much still a boom and bust species, as populations grow so does the likeliness to contract and die from various diseases and illnesses.

This sedimentary lifestyle we have adopted does not work in our favor, our bodies are originally adapted for walking, hunting and for us being active and always on the moves. You need to look no further than back problems, heart disease and things we see trivial like Hemorrhoids and weight gain. I an go more into this later if anyone is curious in the relationship between problems we have today and how our bodies originally were evolved to work.

I live Darwinism in every sense of the word.

[Max™]

Tech advances rapidly.

I don't think billions of years to become a galactic civilization is realistic, more like tens of thousands.

The first step though, will be finding a way to get around.

Worst case, we figure out some way to build quantum teleportation devices, but have to send them to each star the hard way, push the number up a couple hundred thousand years.

Best case, we find a way around the speed of light limitations, might be colonizing the galaxy within a few thousand years.

[Mizango]

Again, my first response was not to shit on anyone's belief system but I am showing the parallels of how a majority of humans think. I don't want Firas and Jones rage in my thread or anything.

Just pointing out that people believe we were simply "given" Earth to do with it what we please and can do no wrong and are steadfast in that shitty belief systems and our falsely privileged position in the Universe.

Yes the Earth has been here umpteen billion years and it will be here for another few billion more, we know we are on the clock and our number will be up sooner rather than later. We are on top of this shit, I will post links when I get home Some of the wormhole theories and proposed instruments and ideas are quite interesting.

[Mizango]

Tech advances rapidly.

I don't think billions of years to become a galactic civilization is realistic, more like tens of thousands.

The first step though, will be finding a way to get around.

Worst case, we figure out some way to build quantum teleportation devices, but have to send them to each star the hard way, push the number up a couple hundred thousand years.

Best case, we find a way around the speed of light limitations, might be colonizing the galaxy within a few thousand years.

This is also what I believe. Consider the Billions years I suggested as a worst case scenarios kind of deal.

Glad you clarified that Max

[Mizango]

Why cant we get this stickied? I know this is boring science to most but this has some good information and I don't mind at all the Q&A portion one bit. Not to mention that it is one of the few threads that is drama free and actually works nicely with people that want to know about physics, astrophysics and Cosmology as a whole but dont know where to begin.

The more people interested and helped by science the better. There arent enough of us out here in the world QQ

Khamsin halp?

[Eliseos]

I hope our space program gets to the point where we can have commercial flights in space before I die. I wouldn't mind taking out the equivalent of a car loan to spend a few hours in orbit.

[Pirian]

I actually watched professor Muller's 26 physics 10 lectures in around 3 days because of this thread, lol. Really interesting stuff, kudos to whoever posted the link in here(at least, think it was posted in here)

[Mizango]

I actually watched professor Muller's 26 physics 10 lectures in around 3 days because of this thread, lol. Really interesting stuff, kudos to whoever posted the link in here(at least, think it was posted in here)

You rock. No to be on some weak shit but people like you make this thread fun.

[Seraph]

So, what ever happened to my original title? >_>;;;


-------------------


Solid.

http://content.ytmnd.com/content/c/7...d1f9b22fb8.jpg

Science, bitches.

[Mizango]

So, what ever happened to my original title? >_>;;;

.

lol I noticed that earlier.

[Wintermute]

I need to stop looking at this thread. Every time I take a new peek there's more SCIENCE! going on an it reminds me of back when I was a kid and really liked the subject.

Bloody unpleasant teachers ruining science for me...

[Enygma55]

On that evolution thing, This is most likely our final form ( humanoid, 5 finger, 5 toes, etc... )

Anything out of the norm we lop off.

The only thing that would force us into any noticeable evolutionary change would be if our environment changed significantly ( Global warmings = Waterworld ) or possibly space faring and planetary colonization ( dealing with low/higher gravity and/or air quality/concentration )

Technology is our evolutionary path.

Needs more Stargate travel.

Edit: And pretty much why I love science is also due to space. Earth is so last year. Time to move on.

[zoobernut]

On that evolution thing, This is most likely our final form ( humanoid, 5 finger, 5 toes, etc... )

I would disagree with this. Have you ever seen someone with a vestigial pinky toe? Or a missing pre-canine?

I have seen both and I know it is anecdotal evidence but I would take an educated guess that over time we will lose our pinky toe and only have 4 toes as well as that tooth between your canines and your incisors.

[Wintermute]

The thing is, if we did manage to colonize other planets/moons wouldn't that just make us more wasteful on Earth and/or in general?

The big concern is that our resources are finite here, once we find out how to take advantage of the resources on other planets/moons isn't there always the risk we'll just get more wasteful since we can always just hop to another one?

Or is that part covered by Mizango's interplantary border check scheme?


I'll also take this time to throw my vote in for "needs more Firefly style cowboys in space".

[Pirian]

I'll take me some cowboy bebop style future

[Mizango]

Bloody unpleasant teachers ruining science for me...

That is the biggest turn off for a lot of Science classes and Math classes, some are being taught by utterly dreadful teachers. I took Biology 1 before being moves to AP classes but I loathed my first teacher.

That is why I think threads like this are fun. It is far too easy to get burned out of turn off on a subject due to having just one bitch teacher.

I would disagree with this. Have you ever seen someone with a vestigial pinky toe? Or a missing pre-canine?

I have seen both and I know it is anecdotal evidence but I would take an educated guess that over time we will lose our pinky toe and only have 4 toes as well as that tooth between your canines and your incisors.

Yeah the pinky toe thing is correct. We have evidence that the more we wear shoes and socks every increasingly we are losing the need for a pinky toe. I mean other than for stabilization it really has no purpose.

Think about it for a second, maybe you or someone you know has a short or tiny pinky toe? or may no someone with a piece of toe nail on their pinky that is so minuscule it makes you wonder why its there. In contrast jungle folks and tribes through out Africa and South America had and continue to have long and dexterous pinky toes.

Its aids in tree climbing for food, hunting and again for additional stabilization when hunting or running and tracking down food. Shoes and the constant wearing of socks renders these traits useless. Evolution filters out and slowly eliminates useless adaptations.

Whales no longer needed 5 fingers and 5 toes so they adapted fins. They still have the 5 fingers and 5 toes of their past land locked life but its about adaptation. They no longer need wide birthing mammalian hips since they live in the water but they still have a complete pelvis that allows for leg joint movement?

Evolution is slowly working on it, we just don't realize it yet. Give it a few hundred years, a pinky toe will be a thing of the past.

Check out the next pair of flip flop feet you see or talk to your GF or wife. Chances are you will see that the pinky toes is next to nothing or the nail on it is all but phasing itself out completely. Nothing is wrong, its nature at work.

[zoobernut]

My mom always makes fun of me and says I am weird because I have very long very big very dexterous toes including pinky toe. While she has a pinky toe so small it doesn't even touch the ground so it isn't even helping with balance.

[Plow]

It's really hard to say how much further we'll develop as our brain size and structure changes. As population increases, and production becomes more and more automated, we'll be adapting quite thoroughly.

Learning literally changes the density of certain aspects of the brain, and the capability to adapt in such a way is both hereditary and environmentally determined. There's no question there is a clear "thinning of the herd" occurring in human life, it's simply less "clear" because it's no longer about who can successfully hunt, or harvest, but about who can generate the most income through multitude of means, primarily based around mental capability.

The poor quite simply don't live as long, and the rich and the poor are more and more defined by mental aptitude, it's still natural selection, it's just the societal version.

Brain changes are a pretty huge deal in evolution heh, and we're looking at a lot of them moving forward.


This discussion seems really out of place in this thread lol, but as awesome as this thread is I gotta stick my nose in it when i can ;p


Anyway, I wouldn't be too confident that we won't continue to see significant evolution in humans, perhaps even at a rate more accelerated than ever before. Something I'm particularly interested in about the intergalactic colonization is what kind of evolution will result not only from the environments and travel requirements, but the brute strength and fortitude it requires for humans to succeed in such a raw scenario with "support" being such a distant possibility.

That is the biggest turn off for a lot of Science classes and Math classes, some are being taught by utterly dreadful teachers. I took Biology 1 before being moves to AP classes but I loathed my first teacher.

One of my sisters is teaching 100-200 level sociology while working on her masters, and it kills me because she's a complete painful bitch about it. I know if I'd had her as a socio or psych teacher for my first college introduction to it, I'd have stayed the hell away.

[Mizango]

My mom always makes fun of me and says I am weird because I have very long very big very dexterous toes including pinky toe. While she has a pinky toe so small it doesn't even touch the ground so it isn't even helping with balance.

Exactly. You hit the nail right on the head with your pinky toe analogy.

[Wintermute]

There's no question there is a clear "thinning of the herd" occurring in human life, it's simply less "clear" because it's no longer about who can successfully hunt, or harvest, but about who can generate the most income through multitude of means, primarily based around mental capability.

The poor quite simply don't live as long, and the rich and the poor are more and more defined by mental aptitude, it's still natural selection, it's just the societal version.

While people in developed nations have it better off from one angle, I can't help but think that over-reliance on commodities will really bite us in the ass down the line. Disregarding how some people nowadays can't even unclog a sink, people are becoming stupid frail.

Our over-dependence on drugs and obsession with sterilisation is really going to fuck up our immune system's ability to fight shit off should we ever actually leave the planet.
There's people nowadays with immune systems so fucked up as a result of reliance on medication that they can't fight anything off that's been around for centuries, stuff their antibodies should be programmed to deal with.

Imagine having to fight off new viral strains and bacteria, not to mention long-term trips with people canned up will pose massive health risks that the body won't likely be able to cope with.

Mind you, all this future talk is just a can of worms filled with more cans of worms.