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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neosutra View Post
    But like I said, there really isnt "faster than light", because once you reach the speed of light, time/distance go to zero, and you are at your destination.
    Wait, how does distance go to zero? I understand that mass will go to zero and time will effectively stop, but I'm not sure what you mean by distance going to zero.

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seraph View Post
    Sort of late, but isn't the measurement of the constant speed of light 'c' supposed to be in a vacuum?
    Yes. The speed of light through a medium *appears* to be slower than C. The situation is almost exactly the same as described in the experiments above.

    When light reaches a medium, it now has other particles to interact with. Let's say the light hits an atom. The atom will then absorb the photon, and an electron in the atom will jump up into an excited state (i.e. it absorbs the photon and receives its energy). After a fraction of a second, it will lose that energy and re-emit a photon. For a fraction of a second, the photon didn't exist. It's energy was converted to that of an atom or molecule. This causes the light to take longer to reach it's goal, so we perceive it as traveling slower.

    Think about throwing a baseball 20 feet. At 10 feet per second, it gets there in two seconds. If someone catches it halfway, then throws it the rest of the distance at the same speed it will take slightly longer for the ball to reach its destination because it takes time for the catcher to ready himself and rethrow it. Though it took longer to reach its goal, it still traveled the same speed the entire time it was traveling. The more catchers between the ball and its destination, the longer it takes to reach its destination despite the fact that its speed is always the same while its traveling. Of course, for the analogy to completely fit, the baseball would have to no longer exist when its caught. The catchers would absorb it into their own body and convert it into their bodies own energy. Light always travels at c, but can appear to slow down for similar reasons.

    Edit: oldoldman beat me to it.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woozie View Post
    Yes. The speed of light through a medium *appears* to be slower than C. The situation is almost exactly the same as described in the experiments above.

    When light reaches a medium, it now has other particles to interact with. Let's say the light hits an atom. The atom will then absorb the photon, and an electron in the atom will jump up into an excited state (i.e. it absorbs the photon and receives its energy). After a fraction of a second, it will lose that energy and re-emit a photon. For a fraction of a second, the photon didn't exist. It's energy was converted to that of an atom or molecule. This causes the light to take longer to reach it's goal, so we perceive it as traveling slower.
    Woozie vindication is the best kind of vindication.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seraph View Post
    Sort of late, but isn't the measurement of the constant speed of light 'c' supposed to be in a vacuum?
    Yes it is.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Woozie View Post


    Awesome lol. I printed that out the last time you sent it to me, I had forgotten the link though.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quicklet View Post
    Just to warn you I'm in the camp that believes that string theory might turn out to be one of the biggest wastes of effort in physics history. But I do lattice QCD so the LHC is still relevant to my interests. I'm guessing there hasn't been much progress on a new lepton collider though, what with the whole global economy being in the shitter.
    There are actually some very prominent physicists who agree with you, including Lee Smolin. IIRC, he wrote a book about why string theory is a huge waste. Or maybe I'm confusing him with someone else.

    Speaking of someone else, someone else wrote a similar book. I never read either of these though.

  7. #67
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    You should get a patch for reading through an entire Smolin book. Ive done it twice...

  8. #68
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    Thankfully hes more entertaining in RL.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mizango View Post
    You should get a patch for reading through an entire Smolin book. Ive done it twice...
    I REALLY want to read his books because the subjects are so interesting, but his writing style is just so freakin boring.

  10. #70
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    Agreed lol.

  11. #71

    Quote Originally Posted by oldoldman View Post
    Wait, how does distance go to zero? I understand that mass will go to zero and time will effectively stop, but I'm not sure what you mean by distance going to zero.
    Mass doesnt go to 0 when you approach c, it remains the same. If it did go to 0, then traveling at c wouldnt be a problem, because the resultant infinite build up of momentum needed as you attempt to further accelerate would be irrelevant.

    I say distance goes to 0 as in relative distance in your (the c traveler) frame of reverance. That is v = d/t, d = vt, d = c*0 (0 time once at c), thus you have 0 distance. Not to mention once time slows down, you dont get any more time to accelerate. To you (the guy riding the photon), it is as if you instantly hit your destination.

    The way I have been modeling some of these actions, is the place two particles next to each other and treat them as if a photon that was emitted by one (and absorbed by the other 10 millions light years away) was actually just transfered directly (as if they were connected). The 2 particles act the same way regardless of the time it took for that photon to transfer that energy, and the photon itself percieved it as if the particles were connected, yet there is some spatial distance and time that the rest of the universe (our universe) sees... But like I said, any true 3d model Ive made thus far breaks down pretty fast, and you really have to look at these problems one dimension at a time (for now).

    As for the higgs particle, I dont think they will find anything with the LHC (hope they dont, else Ill be wrong maybe >.>), but we will see! Very exciting times none the less.

  12. #72

    This thread makes me sad. It reminds me of back in '01 when I was doing nuclear research. I wish I had stayed in research rather than going ops for the military. Ops is so god awful boring and so f'king limited by all the politics and top-heavy bureaucracy. I almost hate nuclear power now. I don't think I'll be able to continue it after I get out, I'm just spent.



    Speaking of people more interesting in real life than in paper, I recall getting a reactor safety seminar once from one of the leads on the Manhattan Project. Guy's been walking around with a piece of uranium from the original pile reactor in a lead glass cube in his pocket... and that was only the beginning of his eccentrics, lol.

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mizango View Post
    Agreed lol.
    I enjoyed The problem with Physics more than I should have.

  14. #74
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    This thread makes me fondly remember all my physics classes in college and hate myself for how much I have forgotten and not kept up on in the years past.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neosutra View Post
    As for the higgs particle, I dont think they will find anything with the LHC (hope they dont, else Ill be wrong maybe >.>), but we will see! Very exciting times none the less.
    Does your model explain the origin of mass? If so, I'd like to hear this if you have that part worked out.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldoldman View Post
    I enjoyed The problem with Physics more than I should have.
    Yeah I've read that one and "Three roads to quantum gravity". I enjoyed them also, just still dry reads in terms of his writing style.

  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neosutra View Post
    Mass doesnt go to 0 when you approach c, it remains the same. If it did go to 0, then traveling at c wouldnt be a problem, because the resultant infinite build up of momentum needed as you attempt to further accelerate would be irrelevant.

    I say distance goes to 0 as in relative distance in your (the c traveler) frame of reverance. That is v = d/t, d = vt, d = c*0 (0 time once at c), thus you have 0 distance. Not to mention once time slows down, you dont get any more time to accelerate. To you (the guy riding the photon), it is as if you instantly hit your destination.

    The way I have been modeling some of these actions, is the place two particles next to each other and treat them as if a photon that was emitted by one (and absorbed by the other 10 millions light years away) was actually just transfered directly (as if they were connected). The 2 particles act the same way regardless of the time it took for that photon to transfer that energy, and the photon itself percieved it as if the particles were connected, yet there is some spatial distance and time that the rest of the universe (our universe) sees... But like I said, any true 3d model Ive made thus far breaks down pretty fast, and you really have to look at these problems one dimension at a time (for now).

    As for the higgs particle, I dont think they will find anything with the LHC (hope they dont, else Ill be wrong maybe >.>), but we will see! Very exciting times none the less.
    That makes sense, thanks. Relativity is so fun to completely not understand!

  18. #78
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    I tried to read Three Roads to Quantum Gravity, but it just never could keep my interest. I have the same problem when I try to read any his articles in scientific magazines (he wrote for SciAm and some other magazines).

  19. #79
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    1.) Read Boring Physics Books
    2.) Publish Interesting Crib Notes
    3.) ???
    4.) Profit!

  20. #80

    Quote Originally Posted by Woozie View Post
    Does your model explain the origin of mass? If so, I'd like to hear this if you have that part worked out.
    Particle/wave explanations, but not mass yet =/, but.. they are related and I have a few guesses.

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