What is the difference between "Must have" games and "really good/great" games?

[Atreides]

when the SNES mariokart came out there really wasn't a lot like it in terms of head-to-head 4-player multiplayer, I guess...

[Kuya]

If i understand this thread correctly, it is a convention of people who are butthurt over BRP being a better person than they are. I will write a book about this.

[BRP]

I am not over-intellectualizing anything, Beckwin. "Must-Have" is an odd term to begin with, nothing wrong with wanting someone to make the distinction from "good game."

And that pedestal is going to appear under me with or without my intention. It is the result of having to deal with appeals to authority and popular opinion. So I might look cocky when I reject shit like "Hey, IGN says this is a good game!" but I don't give a damn really, IGN is wrong and I will likely explain why.

But getting back to where the topic is currently at: saying it means "essential" is fair, but essential to whom? And since when has essential meant "most popular/overhyped/nostalgic?"

Games that set trends would be essential to ONLY critics anyway, to give them context for reviewing future games. Anyone else could do without it.

And to throw out one last bit: if we are listing essential games, it would need to be by genre. The best version of Madden might seem essential to someone, but certainly not the guy who restricts his tastes to Japanese Strategy games.

[Colenzo]

there he is

[BRP]

I need a new sig... though I did revive myself with the strength of righteousness.

[Beckwin]

I am not over-intellectualizing anything, Beckwin. "Must-Have" is an odd term to begin with, nothing wrong with wanting someone to make the distinction from "good game."

And that pedestal is going to appear under me with or without my intention. It is the result of having to deal with appeals to authority and popular opinion. So I might look cocky when I reject shit like "Hey, IGN says this is a good game!" but I don't give a damn really, IGN is wrong and I will likely explain why.

But getting back to where the topic is currently at: saying it means "essential" is fair, but essential to whom? And since when has essential meant "most popular/overhyped/nostalgic?"

Games that set trends would be essential to ONLY critics anyway, to give them context for reviewing future games. Anyone else could do without it.

And to throw out one last bit: if we are listing essential games, it would need to be by genre. The best version of Madden might seem essential to someone, but certainly not the guy who restricts his tastes to Japanese Strategy games.

essential will always be subjective, and what makes a list will depend on the size and scope of the list, but it's easy enough at least agree on some basic criteria to have a discussion instead of saying "waaaahhh this whole idea is dunm, listen to my personal rant about what makes a good game"

it's not necessarily about setting trends, although I suppose many games that would make a console's "must-have" list would be trend-setters. it's really just a fairly simple concept- the heavy-hitter, library standouts that people associate with the system. I'll also add that the more broad the list topic is (generation>console>genre>console-genre>to more specific things), the more "pedestrian" the list of must-haves will be.

[BRP]

it's easy enough at least agree on some basic criteria to have a discussion instead of saying "waaaahhh this whole idea is dunm, listen to my personal rant about what makes a good game"

What are you talking about here? This thread is rant-free. The shit in the other thread, the PS3 one, wasn't even about the definition of "must-have." In that thread it was only replies/rebuttals.

Where was this criteria established?

it's really just a fairly simple concept- the heavy-hitter, library standouts that people associate with the system.

I thought this is what I was saying before. You mean to say that whether a game is "essential" is decided by public reaction, not the merits of the game itself?

Also, generation/console shouldn't be before genre. That doesn't break up well at all. It would Final Fantasy 1 and Final Fantasy 6(or any other series example) could never be in the same category, wouldn't it?

[Beckwin]

the criteria was pre-established for everyone else who didn't need it spelled the fuck out to prevent them from wah-wahing all over the thread.

decided by both public reaction and quality. feel free to let one weigh more heavily than the other; that's why people discuss/debate each game getting the label.

I was just giving a very rough list of decreasing scope. the idea is that very general lists, whether it be Must-Have NES games or Must-Have Racing Games will be more pedestrian in nature (the obvious big hits; perhaps more heavily weighing public impact/perception than smaller lists) compared to Must-Have PS2 TRPGs.

[BRP]

the criteria was pre-established for everyone else who didn't need it spelled the fuck out to prevent them from wah-wahing all over the thread.

I am still confused. Which thread?

I was just giving a very rough list of decreasing scope.

Genres have much more scope than platforms. Games can hop both platforms and generations(ports, remakes, sequels, emulation, etc etc.) Games can't jump genres(or else they become entirely different games.)


Why would being popular decide how essential a game is? What about that makes the game essential? It would maybe be essential to understanding... gamers, but not games.

See, this is why throwing around essential in a flimsily manner is a problem. It is losing its meaning.

[BRP]

Oh there is always the chance he'll link to this thread. He often checks stuff like this and responds to them here:

Insomnia | Forum | The Internet reacts to Insomnia articles

He replied to us btw. He didn't really insult anyone, which seems surprising. I like that he enjoyed what I said as a compliment, I see it as a good thing too.

[Beckwin]

there's not meaning lost as long as you understand the context. like it or not, people influence how things are viewed.

tell me, that when talking about essential PS1 games, FF7 doesn't click in your brain a little differently than ff8/ff9 or LoD or BoFIII or whatever. Same with MGS versus Syphon Filter. Labeling something essential comes down to your own experience, your own opinion, and how the game is viewed in the scope of players in respect to a category. There's nothing "wrong" with taking the bigger picture into account, and people ask for "must haves" because they want to get the range of premier experiences because they want to know what people are talking about beyond just playing good games.

if anything, I feel that things start getting flimsier when you talk about (or even worse, start ranking) the "best" games of a system/generation/whatever, because it gets so apples to oranges and also seems to imply there's some objective standards by which we can judge a game by, when in reality I feel it's better to simply have a vocabulary with which we can discuss the game.

[Kuya]

Do guys write about having cocks?

Constantly.

[Shiroikage]

I think I was talking shit about him on AIM for than the forum.

[Brill Weave]

Here are/were my must haves.

Fallout 3
Left 4 Dead
Yakuza 2

That's about it within recent memory. Most other games, like Prototype for example, are great. But I didn't really sit there and wait and count down the days until they arrived like I did with the three I listed. To me, these three games are must haves. Fallout 3 for the sheer massiveness of the game and the levels of character customization you are able to do. Left 4 Dead was a must have because it was a coop zombie game. No plot. All action.

Yakuza 2 was a must have for me due to the story I knew I would be getting involved in. After playing the first one, this was a case of the story completely selling the game to me. When Yakuza 3 comes out it will be another must have for me, which could pose a problem since I don't have a PS3.

[Mizango]

-Mass Effect.
-Persona (Entire series)
-Ogre Battle
-Makai Kingdom/Phantom Brave.

-also SMT: Nocturne, Digital Devil Saga and Devil Summoner series'.

[Mizango]

Absolute must haves. This is kind of making me wish I had time to get back around to Makai Kingdom.

[Charismatic]

-Persona (Entire series)

Best be fuckin trollin

[Mizango]

Best be fuckin trollin

Hell no, don't front man. You know Persona was off the hook.

[Charismatic]

Hell no, don't front man. You know Persona was off the hook.

Straight from his mouth people... I tried to stop him.
This is the kinda shit this nigga plays.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ss4BYqrTOPU

[Mizango]

Persona 1 along with Secret of Mana and Lufia: Rise of the Sinistrals on SNES are what got me hooked beyond comprehension.