Job Adjustments and Additions Part I (07/03/2009)

[Fallyn]

YO DAWG I HEARD YOU LIKE NIN IN YONIN SO I PUT SOME NIN INNIN SO YOU CAN NIN WHILE YONIN

/thread.

[Sho]

Gonna laugh my ass off if the boosts are huge. I don't even like NIN so much and I find it funny a bunch of you are writing this off as useless.

For one, SE said in that interview forever ago that they wanted to make it so that Ninja would have an easier time recasting shadows-- so that at the base should be the reason for the update. Building offa that, any decent NIN worth his/her salt RIGHT NOW can hold hate well without this update, quite possibly hinting that the enmity- and enmity+ boost should be well above decent to accompany some of the better Ninja players (and in turn help the suckier players). Everything else that comes with that general bonus are freebies to assist in tanking/DDing really (or should be). The Acc Down effect would be -20~40 at best, something that's offset by Sushi.

@ Virtuous Saint (and anyone else interested in the spell Meteor from any NM)

Spoiler: show

I know I can't be the only person on this earth in 4 years to have spotted this but I'll go ahead and ask: Have you ever looked on POLUtils for the elemental properties of Meteor? (It's index number is 00218, with Comet as 00219) if you look at the recent spell description for both it's "Magic Help Message," meaning they intentionally omitted a description from it because SE knows down the line they'll never add the spell or it might have been an oversight.

What's more interesting is that if you look at the older, archived spell descriptions it designates it's elemental properties as "special," meaning it could be dark & light together, all 8 elements, or non-elemental. Based on this at least it's definitely not only light or only dark elemental. However this might be wrong because Comet right below it is designated as Dark element (but it was previously Dark Magic and not Elemental as well).

So maybe have your peeps stack both Light and Dark resist gear if you attempt it again? Could test on something less formidable that uses Meteor as well, like KB in Limbus. Thought I'd throw that out there.

Not even gonna comment on the Charm thing because it's stupid. >_>

[frodnonnag]

yonin and nin/drk tanking, discuss.

[Mojo]

It's obvious to me as to what both of these are for. There are a few ways of playing ninja, both of these abilities will fit well with one of them. Yonin is the obvious choice for HNM tanking, partying in the lower levels and solo, Innin is for higher level melee burn parties and for meritting. How they perform really depends on the stats they give, time will tell.

[ringthree]

yonin and nin/drk tanking, discuss.

See the problem with NIN tanking wasn't really hate anymore, but survivability. I don't know how much Yonin helps with that. Evasion and Crit Rate down are definitely nice, but nothing like Retaliation, shield block damage reduction, shield block uninterruptable casting, and a far superior selection of gear.

Also, PLD has a bunch of oh shit buttons. NIN has one, and when they hit it, everyone else goes "oh shit".

[Blackbrock]

this thread is now about charm.
discuss

[richardd]

See the problem with NIN tanking wasn't really hate anymore, but survivability. I don't know how much Yonin helps with that. Evasion and Crit Rate down are definitely nice, but nothing like Retaliation, shield block damage reduction, shield block uninterruptable casting, and a far superior selection of gear.

Also, PLD has a bunch of oh shit buttons. NIN has one, and when they hit it, everyone else goes "oh shit".

cmon, gotta respect nins a little more.

they can take some good dmg just like any other tank job. its just that, nins dont have any room for mistakes. There are parses saved of me taking average less dmg than excal/burtang/valhalla/aegis plds on mobs like Odin and Tiamat. Doesnt make me any better than anyone else, but i think if the person is motivated about it, they can "get'r'done". this new JA is exactly how you said it is though. Not really needed ; but still pretty nice to have available


edit: i know delonge is reading this. i love you man

MSN convo:
Delonge says:
SE> yo richard is gone now, lets buff nin

if yall dont know delong, you betta axe somebodeh!

[Snprphnx]

as nin, i am happy we are getting some attention. the enmity bonus is nice, however i honestly have never had an issue keeping/sharing hate on nin. what i have trouble with is peoples current belief now that nin is now a situational tank and cant do as well of a job as pld can

[Kaisha]

I'm just worried about the positioning in todays TP burn setups. Regardless, hope the next batch of announcements as good, unlike last update where WHM dominated the other adjustments that followed.

[Biiru]

as nin, i am happy we are getting some attention. the enmity bonus is nice, however i honestly have never had an issue keeping/sharing hate on nin. what i have trouble with is peoples current belief now that nin is now a situational tank and cant do as well of a job as pld can

A-fucking-men. I tank on PLD now, I leveled it cause no one would let me tank with NIN any more. NIN is still my first love as a tank, I know it inside and out.

[Gergall]

I'm just worried about the positioning in todays TP burn setups. Regardless, hope the next batch of announcements as good, unlike last update where WHM dominated the other adjustments that followed.

The way this update is worded I am led to believe it will be a 3-part series this time around.

In this, the first part in the job adjustment series of articles, we cast the spotlight on ninjas

I know there are translation issues at times but "series" sounds like 3 (or more) articles to me. There must be some substantial additions waiting for us if they can't fit it into 2 articles like they did in April.

[Virtuous Saint]

Gonna laugh my ass off if the boosts are huge. I don't even like NIN so much and I find it funny a bunch of you are writing this off as useless.

For one, SE said in that interview forever ago that they wanted to make it so that Ninja would have an easier time recasting shadows-- so that at the base should be the reason for the update. Building offa that, any decent NIN worth his/her salt RIGHT NOW can hold hate well without this update, quite possibly hinting that the enmity- and enmity+ boost should be well above decent to accompany some of the better Ninja players (and in turn help the suckier players). Everything else that comes with that general bonus are freebies to assist in tanking/DDing really (or should be). The Acc Down effect would be -20~40 at best, something that's offset by Sushi.

@ Virtuous Saint (and anyone else interested in the spell Meteor from any NM)

Spoiler: show

I know I can't be the only person on this earth in 4 years to have spotted this but I'll go ahead and ask: Have you ever looked on POLUtils for the elemental properties of Meteor? (It's index number is 00218, with Comet as 00219) if you look at the recent spell description for both it's "Magic Help Message," meaning they intentionally omitted a description from it because SE knows down the line they'll never add the spell or it might have been an oversight.

What's more interesting is that if you look at the older, archived spell descriptions it designates it's elemental properties as "special," meaning it could be dark & light together, all 8 elements, or non-elemental. Based on this at least it's definitely not only light or only dark elemental. However this might be wrong because Comet right below it is designated as Dark element (but it was previously Dark Magic and not Elemental as well).

So maybe have your peeps stack both Light and Dark resist gear if you attempt it again? Could test on something less formidable that uses Meteor as well, like KB in Limbus. Thought I'd throw that out there.

Not even gonna comment on the Charm thing because it's stupid. >_>

The meteor thing is irrelevant but thanks for posting it. The only thing that matters is what makes it be resisted.

[Shinta]

I know there are translation issues at times but "series" sounds like 3 (or more) articles to me. There must be some substantial additions waiting for us if they can't fit it into 2 articles like they did in April.

Hasso probably overwrites Spider Web now, update 3. You heard it here first folks!

[Xajii]

Delonge says:
SE> yo richard is gone now, lets buff nin

if yall dont know delong, you betta axe somebodeh!

Next up:

SE> yo kaeko is gone now, lets buff blm

[LordshadowRagnarok]

lets sum up 6 pages so far....

nin updates.... good... bad... good... bad... terrible..... my vote.... wait for it to update, test it, then decide if it is good or bad.

other possible updates... wait for it to be release then complain/theorize.

bst charming... 5% chance on charming really is not much to e-pen about. regardless of the point being any job and only 5% chance to charm IT++ is of no use. 95% chance of death and exp loss i think would speak for itself

You forgot bickering about the elemental affinity of meteor.

[Zazel]

Yea, sucks for you Ric. I read your nin/drk.rdm info and was pretty interesting. I'll test the update cause I consistently get to test most HNMs. I don't know many other ls who still use nin tank (as main tank). I'm almost done w/ a full Spell interruption set for Ichi, missing Yasha head+1, I can get close to 60+ w/ Aqua up cause I figure this is a life saver for Khim and most NM where you'll be Iching w/o a shadow often.

[Sho]

The meteor thing is irrelevant but thanks for posting it. The only thing that matters is what makes it be resisted.

I thought as much, maybe it'll help ya a lil if you try different resistances (Light and Dark together basically), why I brought it up. Since it seems your LS is like the only one taking AV seriously anymore.

[Spira]

offtopic with regard to charm:
It is possible to charm anything way above your level, as long as it is charmable, but the chances are very low. I'd say it would always be sitting on the 5% lower cap past a certain level.

But the charm duration will be impossibly short. I seem to recall charm wearing off in less than 5 seconds. so you need to be quick with your Familiar.

Familiar is still useless because it only works with 1 pet, and at end-game theres a chance u'll need to go thru many pets. It's hardly game breaking considering at places like Lumoria or any instanced event you'll be forced to use Jugs which are naturally weaker than charmies already... Familiar is necessary to make up for their lack of comparative dmg..


on topic:
i used to like NIN/BST who would tank uncharmable stuff.. and the NINs that spammed elemental wheel for hate.. i guess both are considered outdated methods of play.. but if the enmity spike proves to be strong enough, they might be viable methods again?

[richardd]

Yea, sucks for you Ric. I read your nin/drk.rdm info and was pretty interesting. I'll test the update cause I consistently get to test most HNMs. I don't know many other ls who still use nin tank (as main tank). I'm almost done w/ a full Spell interruption set for Ichi, missing Yasha head+1, I can get close to 60+ w/ Aqua up cause I figure this is a life saver for Khim and most NM where you'll be Iching w/o a shadow often.

yeah but -spell interruption % caps. ive tried it, and i never found it to be anything good, lol. but that was just my observation. maybe things have changed now and it probably rocks. i got my /rdm inspiration from a guy named mojopojo. he did the charts and showed it to me personally. and since he doesnt tank on nin anymore, he let me into it, and showed me what i was capable of.

as far as these new JA's go, its whatever. this isnt a life-changing JA for nins. but it does make things a bit easier.

as far as that whole pld debate thing goes. i have respect for any tank, no matter how easy/difficult they have it. from drks to blu's. PLD imo have the spotlight because (and i mean this with no offense, i love you all) it's really not that hard to play it. Its a very forgiving job. They can make a few mistakes and still be up there on the hate with nin's and rdm's. They may take a little longer to get to cap, but they eventually get there and hold it pretty good.

Nin and Rdm isnt nearly as forgiving as pld. a DA at the wrong time, or a lag in your macro input can mean death sometimes if you're not prepared for it. There was one time i went on my friend's aegis account and i was told i tanked better than he did because "i tanked like a ninja". i didnt take any risks and i hardly relied on his 100m shield. After tanking alongside with them so much, i developed my own style and liking for them, and educated myself on it. and i love pld tanks. and i have nothing but respect for them. but i like it better when bravura wars send me a tell saying things like "i like it better when you tank on nin because i get to go balls to the walls earlier in the fight"

<3 u Sakiyo~ craziest war ever

[Zazel]

yeah but -spell interruption % caps. ive tried it, and i never found it to be anything good, lol. but that was just my observation. maybe things have changed now and it probably rocks. i got my /rdm inspiration from a guy named mojopojo. he did the charts and showed it to me personally. and since he doesnt tank on nin anymore, he let me into it, and showed me what i was capable of.

as far as these new JA's go, its whatever. this isnt a life-changing JA for nins. but it does make things a bit easier.

as far as that whole pld debate thing goes. i have respect for any tank, no matter how easy/difficult they have it. from drks to blu's. PLD imo have the spotlight because (and i mean this with no offense, i love you all) it's really not that hard to play it. Its a very forgiving job. They can make a few mistakes and still be up there on the hate with nin's and rdm's. They may take a little longer to get to cap, but they eventually get there and hold it pretty good.

Nin and Rdm isnt nearly as forgiving as pld. a DA at the wrong time, or a lag in your macro input can mean death sometimes if you're not prepared for it. There was one time i went on my friend's aegis account and i was told i tanked better than he did because "i tanked like a ninja". i didnt take any risks and i hardly relied on his 100m shield. After tanking alongside with them so much, i developed my own style and liking for them, and educated myself on it. and i love pld tanks. and i have nothing but respect for them. but i like it better when bravura wars send me a tell saying things like "i like it better when you tank on nin because i get to go balls to the walls earlier in the fight"

<3 u Sakiyo~ craziest war ever

Yea Dispel/Sleep spam is insane because its always ready and not waiting on timers. Not to mention Blind/Bind very low mp and help to keep hate capped. I've used the Spell int set on my spellcast for Khim and it helped alot imo.Especially when you Ni>Dreadstorm and need to make sure you get ichi up before a mage pulls hate.