Job Adjustments and Additions Part I (07/03/2009)

[Antithesis]

http://i40.tinypic.com/2m7t9v8.png

Owned. Now do us all a favor and promptly go kill yourself.

Video only. Picture can be debunked to the ends of the earth. Video is much harder.

[Zelduh]

Video only. Picture can be debunked to the ends of the earth. Video is much harder.

Look at the Vanadiel time. Surely I had so much time to doctor every single aspect of the picture perfectly and happened to have it sync up to about the same time I posted it, right? Shut the fuck up, seriously. I demand the cutting off of balls I was promised. If you actually think that can be "debunked", you're just as much of an idiot as that guy is. You can charm anything that's not immune to charm as BST1 with enough attempts. End of story. This is the last time I'm repeating myself. It's not rocket science, it's not a gigantic mystery, it's FACT.

[Destinye]

I don't know much about bst, but doesn't the charm power 'scale' to the native level of BST regardless of subbing it? I heard something like that before but I don't know if it was talking about charm or something else >.<

[TacoTaru]

Shut the fuck up, seriously. I demand the cutting off of balls I was promised.

Not that I care to fuel this dumb fucking circle jerk you two have going on with each other, but he said Darters and you got Colibri. At least learn to read if you're trying for "omg epic pwn".

[Zelduh]

Not that I care to fuel this dumb fucking circle jerk you two have going on with each other, but he said Darters and you got Colibri. At least learn to read if you're trying for "omg epic pwn".

Yeah, because there's a difference between a level 1 beastmaster charming a colibri and a darter? I don't care about "omg epic pwn". I'm trying to prove a point, and I have proved it. That's all I was trying to do from the beginning, but seriously, he's an idiot if he refuses to believe it. As is EVERYONE else who apparently doesn't understand how charm works. I don't even know who the hell any of you are but I don't allow such ignorance to spread from ANYONE. If you try to argue against something that is a 100% known, undeniable fact, you fail.

[Julian]

Look at the Vanadiel time. Surely I had so much time to doctor every single aspect of the picture perfectly and happened to have it sync up to about the same time I posted it, right? Shut the fuck up, seriously. I demand the cutting off of balls I was promised. If you actually think that can be "debunked", you're just as much of an idiot as that guy is. You can charm anything that's not immune to charm as BST1 with enough attempts. End of story. This is the last time I'm repeating myself. It's not rocket science, it's not a gigantic mystery, it's FACT.

Isn't this common knowledge? There's a 5% minimum accuracy for everything in this game, just like how there's always a 5% minimum resist rate.

He did colibri because he could just run outside, charm, if fail, die and go back out, repeat. A colibri is the same thing as a darter to a level 3 character, 5% charm rate.

(what exactly is the point of this argument?)

[Kaeko]

Charm doesn't scale with level restriction or even subjob, only what your BST actually is. This fact is the cornerstone of /BST soloing and effectiveness. The idea that sync wouldn't change this isn't surprising. Also, asking for a video is excessive, unless you're trolling, in which case that's a pretty good response.

[Zelduh]

You're trying to pursuade me with your ideas of lving BST at lv 1 by charming colibris, man up and do as you say.

Last post I'm making about this , ruining a perfectly good thread with this nonsense.

This is the post I was replying to, by the way. He doesn't make much sense and I'm sure English is his third language seeing as this has little relevance to anything I've ever said, so I assumed he meant to take a picture of charming a colibri as that would be the only logical explanation.
I've provided evidence either way, now gtfo, all of you

[Zelduh]

Isn't this common knowledge? There's a 5% minimum accuracy for everything in this game, just like how there's always a 5% minimum resist rate.

He did colibri because he could just run outside, charm, if fail, die and go back out, repeat. A colibri is the same thing as a darter to a level 3 character, 5% charm rate.

(what exactly is the point of this argument?)

Thank you.

[Nightfyre]

http://i40.tinypic.com/2m7t9v8.png

Owned. Now do us all a favor and promptly go kill yourself.

Congrats, nobody cares because he said you couldn't do it consistently, not that you couldn't do it at all. Go away.

[Zelduh]

Congrats, nobody cares because he said you couldn't do it consistently, not that you couldn't do it at all. Go away.

He didn't say anything about consistently. Go reread everything. I said it myself, countless times. He said it's outright impossible. I said it's possible but will take a lot of attempts. LEARN TO READ. This was about FAMILIAR in the first place which is why I said anything about charm having a minimum success rate. God, how can people be this stupid? Do you have downs syndrome? Some kind of learning disability? Outright mental retardation? Idiots.

[Julian]

You clearly don't understand how charm works. Charm will always have a 5% success rate MINIMUM. I never said you would be charming things FREQUENTLY as level 1 BST. You can, in fact, charm a darter with enough tries as BST1. End of story.

Didn't say you had to charm them all the time. You stated Familiar is useless. Guess what? It's not.
Once again, you're an idiot. You CAN charm ANYTHING in the game that is of a charmable family and isn't a notorious monster. It doesn't mater if it's IT+++++++++++++++++++++++++++. Charm will land eventually, and when it does you can familiar, which is what this argument was about in the first place, dumbass. Learn game mechanics

Are you an idiot? A a level 1 BST can charm ANYTHING in the game that's charmable, at level 1, and familiar it with a macro. Charm has a minimum success rate. I've charmed the VT+ tigers in kuftal as RDM75/BST1. I've also charmed a colibri outside whitegate as BST1. It doesn't even take that many attemps, and BST main with a ton of CHR gear certainly isn't going to miss more than a few times on even the highest charmable mobs in the game, but the point is that you familiar it to make it your bitch for 30 minutes.
Also, ever heard of level capped zones? Retard.

I don't see any mention of "Farmiliar is awesome for charming super IT stuff then using it to exp"

You know why? Because EXP is based on the highest level in your party, charmed monsters count too. This is why it's common knowledge that as a BST, pets only cause exp penalty if you use T or higher (EM=your level) So running out and charming an IT++ and familiaring it for exp purposes is fucking retarded.

His argument was that Familiar isn't a useless 2hour, and that is true.

I triple dog dare you to go to DA as lv 1 BST and charm a darter, get me pics of you succeeding in this and I shall cut off my balls for you.

lol, learn game mechanics

[Nightfyre]

Go to BST KI and go tell them you can ALWAYS charm IT ++ mobs with NP, come back if you still have the balls.

Also, I know you CAN but since my first post I've been saying that you can't ALWAYS. Yet you keep going, if you agree with that part, stfu and stop with derailing

Regardless, Julian's right about Familiar.

[Zelduh]

"You're retarded, you can't charm IT++ and I doubt there are even IT++ mobs in the game that can be charmed as 75BST"

"Go to BST KI and go tell them you can ALWAYS charm IT ++ mobs with NP, come back if you still have the balls.
Gauge is a JA that's never meant to be used then? Hey you can charm ANYTHING you want anyways! Fact that your BST is Lv1 makes this conversation pointless, come back when you know your shit."

Notice how I never said "always". Ever. Nor did I say it would be "no problem"

Notice how I said "You clearly don't understand how charm works. Charm will always have a 5% success rate MINIMUM. I never said you would be charming things FREQUENTLY as level 1 BST."

Notice how I said "Charm will land eventually"



How much clearer do I have to make myself? When did I say it would be "consistent" or "frequent"? When did I say I would level with it as BST1? When did I say anything this retarded fucker is making it look like?

Do you all have a first grade reading level? Wow.

Read from page four onwards. Notice how his posts don't even relate to mine. I don't care about this "argument", it's not an argument, it's an idiot trying to say a known game mechanic is false, and I'm saying it's true, regardless of what use it may be or what applications it has.

[Shassira]

<.< There is a reason BST is at the top of the "needing updates" list, but Familiar is definitely not it. It's a perfectly useful 2hour that requires some planning to be used efficiently. Not all 2hours are meant to be used as life savers in moments of crisis, people need to take that off their minds. Familiar gives BST an interesting tactical element, it's fine as it is. I would like it to do something else to jug pets, but whatever.

As for the tanking JA, assuming the crit thing was a misstranslation, it sounds perfectly fine. It's addressing the problem where nin tanks dont' have better hate tools, just like it was for PLD.

The DD JA stance... so you have to stand behind the mob. This isn't that bad, I suposse the idea is to leave nin out of the tank loop when doing damage and let other jobs tank. Either way, if it provides a decent DD boost, between subtle blow, including merits (yes, this is amazingly important... unless all you do is zerg crap. Then we play different games, I guess) and hopefuly a good boost to magic damage (i would LOVE to bring back the days of magic spam :D), it could definitely make for a good strategic use of the job class.

Standing behind isn't hard and there's better blink tanks than Nin for *weak mobs* right now. Both MNK, with counterstance and THF, with much higher evasion rating than NIN, are more suitable as tanks than NIN assuming hate isn't an issue. MNK has no hate issues, if a mnk wants hate, it has hate in this scenario. THF can also be strategicaly used to tank, but requires other ways of playing. If you play things in small groups, depending on what the final numbers of these JAs are, these aren't "useless".

If all you do is HNM zerging, maybe you could use a fresh perspective on the game and aproach things differently, just to make it more fun. Or maybe the tanking stance will have good numbers attached to it and will work here. Either way, the concepts aren't as bad as some are trying to make them sound. Many of you are just focusing from a single perspective.

[Zazel]

This thread has turned into a bunch of lvl37 Ninjas discussing something they know nothing about. Any well geared ninja knows that this update has alot of potential.

1st. I tend to xp on Mamool only, birds are pretty noobish camp and hardly taken serious. Ninja does well on all mobs cept the Lurkers (and sometimes ninjas). On these mobs majority of the time a well geared sam or drk will have hate majority of the time. So in turn the Ninja will not have hate which means yes the acc bonus will proc in turn helping to keep the chain. If the crit hit rate is roughly 5-10% thats a huge + if it stacks w/ weaponskills to. The evasion minus and shit is bullshit outside of soloing.

2nd. Any huge update to ninja tanking would really make it slightly more broken than it is on some of the End game mobs, aka Fafnir, Nidhogg, Tiamat, and SW(Serket) and more. Any good ninja tank should never lose hate to any DD on these mobs w/ minimal support setup and a good cotank. The enmity bonus will be on burden to ninja onn most mobs as you'll leave the pld tank in hate quite easy. The enmity will help out on mobs like Khim which nin/rdm is slow to cap hate on. The evasion bonus will surely benefit tanking Tiamat/Khim who have pretty shitty acc.

But yea this is all speculation cause the bonus could be potent for the 1st min, then pretty much shit for the last 4mins.

[Toth]

I've been thinking about the abilities and wonder what sounds more feasible:

'Extreme Yonin': +50 enmity (decay 10 every minute)
- 50 Accuracy (increases 10 every minute)
+50 evasion (decay 10 every minute)

-Would make a NIN one hell of a tank when you think about it XD

or 'Realistic Yonin': +25 enmity (decay of 5 every minute)
-25 accuracy (increase of 5 every minute)
+25 evasion (decay of 5 every minute)

For all you expert NINs, which would be your personal choice?

[Roree]

lets sum up 6 pages so far....

nin updates.... good... bad... good... bad... terrible..... my vote.... wait for it to update, test it, then decide if it is good or bad.

other possible updates... wait for it to be release then complain/theorize.

bst charming... 5% chance on charming really is not much to e-pen about. regardless of the point being any job and only 5% chance to charm IT++ is of no use. 95% chance of death and exp loss i think would speak for itself.

and as far as what job has however many JA

War has 6 + 2 hour + merits of 2 more
Whm has 3 + 2 hour + merits of 2 more
Mnk has 7 + 2 hour + merits of 2 more
Blm has 1 + 2 hour
Thf has 8 + 2 hour + merits of 2 more
Rdm has 2 + 2 hour
Pld has 5 + 2 hour + merits of 2 more
Drk has 4 + 2 hour + merits of 2 more
Bst has 5 + 2 hour + merits of 2 more
Brd has 1 + 2 hour + merits of 2 more
Rng has 7 + 2 hour + merits of 2 more
Sam has 6 + 2 hour + merits of 2 more
Nin has 0 + 2 hour + merit of 1 update will give 2
Drg has 6 + 2 hour + merits of 2 more
Smn has 1 + 2 hour
Blu has 2 + 2 hour + merits of 2 more
Cor has 4 + 2 hour + merits of 2 more
Pup has 2 + 2 hour + merits of 2 more
Dnc has 6 + 2 hour + merits of 3 more
Sch has 5 + 2 hour + merit of 1 more

not even factoring spells, summons, traits and such there seems to be little to know balance for these amounts but hay might as well add to the fire.

[Klonen]

For all you expert NINs, which would be your personal choice?

Definitely the former. It is very easy to maintain capped enmity on NIN/(RDM or DRK) however reaching cap, especially with RDM sub, can take a 1-3 minutes. So a massive initial enmity boost would be awesome for ramping up enmity fast at the start of a fight, after a hate reset, etc.

[richardd]

god i woulda been all over this. but yeah, like the guy above me said. nin holding hate is the easy part. i dont think ninja needs any more enmity, but if i was around, i'd still take advantage of this. pretty neat!

edit: just to clarify, enmity is always a good thing. but it was something the job was already strong at. i would've preferred something along the lines of like.. more -dmg% or something. macro switching MDB gear for instant AOE's isnt exactly my cup of tea, which is why i ended up keeping on shadowring most of the time. ; regardless, i wouldve welcomed this with open arms lol