Arizona moves to allow concealed guns in bars

[Serif]

You all trying to be like us Southerners!?

Tennessee Lawmakers Allow Guns In Bars

[Rhinox]

No I don't, but I also don't think it will increase crime either, and besides, its someone with a concealed carry permit, they are a lot more likely to follow the law because the punishments for misuse of it are a lot higher if caught, and they will more then likely lose the license permanently. This law makes no change to criminals who don't have a license but carry anyways.

That's like saying someone is not likely to drive drunk because they have a Class A CDL. While you would think that would be a deterrent it really isn't

[pohibaba]

I was responding to pohibaba. Maybe we don't need laws that say 'don't get drunk and carry a fucking gun,' but then you'd think we didn't need laws against drunk driving, either. That's all I wanted to say.

Isn't there a difference between an active thing like driving a car and a passive thing like simply having a gun in a holster? And once again let me ask, do you honestly think there's now going to be a spree of shootings in bars in Arizona? If there's not, will you admit that you're wrong about this?

[Ghost_Wheel22]

Just to assume the worst about people in general. Maybe its the blacked out hick who notices Mr. Fine and Dandy with a Glock chilling with a pint and decides to start shit. How far could things escalate before that gun gets pulled out and possibly used in self-defense? What if the hick has buddies and suddenly its a classic full on bar brawl only with one (or more) guns? What if the guy uses it in honest self defense but since he's had a bit to drink he misses and kills some random shmuck trying the get out of the way?

I can't see the upside to this bill at all.

[Rhinox]

Going along with what you're saying, would it be OK if the guy with the gun blew below a .08?

what do you think someone with a CW would do if he got into a drunken bar fight? tell his friend "Here hold my gun cause I'm gonna whoop this guys ass!"?

We would all love to live in this imaginary world where people had common sense even when intoxicated but we don't.

[Melchiah]

^ this.

[Rhinox]

Isn't there a difference between an active thing like driving a car and a passive thing like simply having a gun in a holster? And once again let me ask, do you honestly think there's now going to be a spree of shootings in bars in Arizona? If there's not, will you admit that you're wrong about this?

Why the fuck let it get to the point where we wait to see if people die to prove anything is the point I'm trying to make. Why allow a law that even the OLD FUCKING WEST outlawed to come into effect. It really is baffling.

[tyven]

anyone thats gonna shoot someone in a bar will show up with a gun regardless of whether or not its legal. i doubt its a problem. still a stupid move though

[pohibaba]

what do you think someone with a CW would do if he got into a drunken bar fight? tell his friend "Here hold my gun cause I'm gonna whoop this guys ass!"?

We would all love to live in this imaginary world where people had common sense even when intoxicated but we don't.

I've been to different bars probably 200 times since I've been 21 and I've never seen a bar fight, and that's including the last 2 years where I've quite literally lived in the ghetto. Is there a rash of bar fights in Arizona that I'm not aware of?

[Nibe]

A

[FNH]

who in the hell goes to a bar and doesn't drink? the atmosphere is certainly not enjoyable sober.

[pohibaba]

Why the fuck let it get to the point where we wait to see if people die to prove anything is the point I'm trying to make. Why allow a law that even the OLD FUCKING WEST outlawed to come into effect. It really is baffling.

So, if there's no noticeable rise in the amount of shootings by people who have a CC permit, you'll eat crow as well?

[FNH]

So basically you have no trust in anyone who has proven themselves to be capable with something? Or are you trying to say something different?

Concealed Carry Permit = Capable and responsible to carry a firearm
Class A CDL = Capable and responsible to operate heavy machinery

In both cases, if you're caught breaking the law with alcohol, you will more then likely get it revoked, yet you still don't trust the person to do it, so why issue any of the licenses in the first place?

congrats you have just met rhinox. his life revolves around assumptions.

[Rhinox]

So basically you have no trust in anyone who has proven themselves to be capable with something? Or are you trying to say something different?

Concealed Carry Permit = Capable and responsible to carry a firearm
Class A CDL = Capable and responsible to operate heavy machinery

In both cases, if you're caught breaking the law with alcohol, you will more then likely get it revoked, yet you still don't trust the person to do it, so why issue any of the licenses in the first place?

Because when the License is issued is it understood that the user wouldn't be drinking and carrying/driving to begin with. those that break the law get them revoked.

Got an unrelated question for you. Would you allow a total stranger to be alone in a room with your 2 year old daughter?

Sometimes its needed and in some cases best to assume the worst in people.

[Skjie]

This can only be amazing.

[FNH]

Got an unrelated question for you. Would you allow a total stranger to be alone in a room with your 2 year old daughter?

completely unrelated to his argument.

[Rhinox]

So, if there's no noticeable rise in the amount of shootings by people who have a CC permit, you'll eat crow as well?

How many is an acceptable number for you? how many people have to die before you say "Hey, Maybe this isn't such a good idea". With me you see one is to many even if that one is a hundred years from now.

[Rhinox]

completely unrelated to his argument.

gee thanks for pointing it out. I guess I should have stated so before I asked the fucking question oh wait...

[FNH]

gee thanks for pointing it out. I guess I should have stated so before I asked the fucking question oh wait...

sorry it was such a retarded question that it didn't even belong in this thread.

[Alleya]

How many is an acceptable number for you? how many people have to die before you say "Hey, Maybe this isn't such a good idea". With me you see one is to many even if that one is a hundred years from now.

You can't quantify that. You are confusing correlation and causation. If it goes up a significant amount, you can probably reasonably conclude that the lessened restrictions had something to do with it. If it only goes up a little bit, you can't really make that assumption rationally from a statistical point of view. All things go up and down over time. Until you can point to firm evidence that a relaxation of this kind leads to escalated incidents, you really have no ground to stand on. If you think about this rationally, you lead to the conclusion I posted earlier which everyone ignored: The kind of people who want to bring concealed weapons to bars already do, law notwithstanding.