Ranger bow/xbow delay

[Fooobos]

Actually, I'm going with a slightly different setup.

I'm going to go STP+4/Evasion+10 and Snap+3/Haste+3 on my MKD hat specifically for 5-hit /SAM O-bow build.

Mekki Shakki
MKD hat
Rajas Ring
Enkidu's Subligar

There are two major benefits, as I see it:

1) I don't have to join a Salvage group just for Skadi pants
2) More importantly, this allows me much more flexibility on WS. With this combo, I can use whatever hat/pants I want for WS without messing up 5-hit build.

Quite an interesting setup Dan. STP+34 while TP will give 20.3 TP/shot. WS TP return would be 19.0 keeping Mekki and Rajas. So 20.3x4 = 81.2 + 19.0 = 100.2

However, if you switch to GMB for WS, that ruins the 5-hit doesnt it? 52 less delay on GMB reduces the TP return from WS making it 14.81 rounded to 14.8 (similar to ebow), instead of the 15.2. Just a thought. :D

I like this idea as a plausible 5hit without sacrificing much gear for WS, unlike other crazy setups. Ebow would a bit more gear sacrificing though, you'd need skadi pants and the STP+4 from the MKD hat during TP and WS fulltime (if my math isnt wrong) which is, as you said before, STP+36.

For me, its Ebow+Kaburas all the way and I find the best subjob to use for events is /SAM. It's already a 6hit without wearing any Store TP+ gear at all, although Rajas is always used for WS'ing. If I go RNG to a zerg, obviously looking to do as much damage in short time, so /WAR is the subjob of choice.

I had done some math a few days ago and realized that in order to make a /nin or /war 6-hit with ebow or obow, you'd need a bit more STP during TP phase in order to just use the STP+5 from Rajas for WS.

For Ebow, STP+15 is needed during TP phase, and STP+5 during WS (rajas)
For Obow, STP+12 is needed during TP phase, and STP+5 during WS (rajas)

For Obow, this is good news because Rajas+Skadi pants is all you need during TP. For Ebow it gets a bit messier. Which is why I concluded that /sam is pretty much the best sub for all that which is non-zerg.

Btw, I've been wanting to know about the actual snapshot % from ZGB. Some people say its 2%, others 3 or 5%. Any real testing/evidence to support these claims would be rather helpful in deciding what augments to put in the MKD hat and if i should even be working towards getting my SCNM popset for ZGB (already done with la vaule's, just havent popped it :3 hope i dont get shafted with earring)

[midguardian]

If you are interested in a 5-hit build for ranger, there are bows to consider besides E-bow. In particular there is an augmented Gendawa available from the ANNM in The Eldieme Necropolis (S). But before you can make an informed decision about x-hit builds for archery or marksmanship, it would be good to know a couple of things.

1. What is the accuracy penalty on Sidewinder/Slugshot?
2. What is the accuracy bonus for TP over 100?

[Vodou]

If you are interested in a 5-hit build for ranger, there are bows to consider besides E-bow. In particular there is an augmented Gendawa available from the ANNM in The Eldieme Necropolis (S). But before you can make an informed decision about x-hit builds for archery or marksmanship, it would be good to know a couple of things.

1. What is the accuracy penalty on Sidewinder/Slugshot?
2. What is the accuracy bonus for TP over 100?

I would add that it matters whether one can (due to enmity concerns) actually use the skill at 100tp.

[Vodou]

Sorry double post.

Was gonna add data, but running out of time.

[ringthree]

I would add that it matters whether one can (due to enmity concerns) actually use the skill at 100tp.

This is my major concern for my RNG which I almost exclusively use for events. I really don't think a 5-hit build outside of XP or Zerg is that beneficial. You build so much hate so fast that you just get your face eaten. That all goes out the window with Yoichinoyumi of course.

[Tsuko_Asura]

And Annihilator

[Sonomaa]

If you are interested in a 5-hit build for ranger, there are bows to consider besides E-bow. In particular there is an augmented Gendawa available from the ANNM in The Eldieme Necropolis (S). But before you can make an informed decision about x-hit builds for archery or marksmanship, it would be good to know a couple of things.

1. What is the accuracy penalty on Sidewinder/Slugshot?
2. What is the accuracy bonus for TP over 100?

its always felt like between 30 and 50% (speculation on my part)
the % to bonus acc for me has always seemed to jump at 25 TP incriments, 125, 150, 175, 200
300TP sides are very accurate but even then can still miss. Sweet spot for me has been 125 as a mithra and naturally high agi, my elvaan ranger friend I leveled with shot at 175 most of the time to get about equal accuracy as me

sometimes sidewinder is just misswinder though, and you cant do a thing. Empyrial arrow at 300tp is about the same damage though and much higher accuracy (PEWPEW LAZOR)

[ringthree]

And Annihilator

I believe the effects of Annihilator and Yoichinoyumi are different, but I very possibly could be wrong. I thought that Namas Arrow itself either had no hate or cleared all hate, while Conorach only decreased hate as it's aftermath.

[Spider-Dan]

I believe the effects of Annihilator and Yoichinoyumi are different, but I very possibly could be wrong. I thought that Namas Arrow itself either had no hate or cleared all hate, while Conorach only decreased hate as it's aftermath.

IIRC:

- Namas Arrow is fixed hate, regardless of damage; aftermath is increased RACC
- Coronach is extremely low hate generation (one of the first tests I recall was RNG using it on Lesser Colibri outside of WG for 4-digit damage, and NIN pulling it off of him with Hojo: Ni); aftermath is -enmity effect

[Tsuko_Asura]

They're both fixed enmity, regardless of damage, Coronach just has the additional effect of lessened enmity(status effect) while Namas Arrow grants ranged accuracy.

Megido and Kaeko cleared that up a while back.

[Vodou]

They're both fixed enmity, regardless of damage, Coronach just has the additional effect of lessened enmity(status effect) while Namas Arrow grants ranged accuracy.

Megido and Kaeko cleared that up a while back.

I think there was some testing, but I could not find anything after Megido's initial postings in the rate your relic thread.

What Spider said is pretty exact. Iirc correctly the CE values are fixed: for Namas it is 160 (corrected to match Kaeko's post below) and for Coronach 80 (also corrected to match Kaeko.) There was a question of whether it varied by mob level, but by casual observations of anyone who has seen these weapons in use, the enmity is far below anything that corresponds to hate from damage done in almost any other way.

The manner or amount in which the aftermaths work (the accuracy or reduced enmity) has not afaik been tested and posted.

[ringthree]

If I am understanding this correctly then Coronach would have lower hate over time, because it would decrease the hate of Annihilator's normal shots also. But then again Coronach is generally not as good a WS as Namas Arrow, right? Again, I am not sure of this, just asking for my own edification.

And just wow at those hate values, they are incredibly small.

[Tsuko_Asura]

Annihilator is also significantly easier to push a 5-hit out of, meaning you can also use much better equipment during Coronach to make the most of the lesser mods.

[Vodou]

If I am understanding this correctly then Coronach would have lower hate over time, because it would decrease the hate of Annihilator's normal shots also. But then again Coronach is generally not as good a WS as Namas Arrow, right? Again, I am not sure of this, just asking for my own edification.

And just wow at those hate values, they are incredibly small.

Math-wise, I would not try to calculate this, but I would expect on average Coronach would produce somwhat higher damage on most some mobs due to the higher total base damage of gun plus bullet, versus Namas bow plus arrow, while the higher weapon rank on Yochi might provide for a higher potential damage. I'm completely a novice on these types of calculations, so by no means would I be surprised to be totally in error.

Spider would know this in his sleep I expect so he would be the one to ask.

Enmity wise, the accumulation of hate on Yoichi is tiny, but not so small as to allow just anything if the mob is squishy. On a mob like DI, though for example, hate is not an issue especially if you are doing JA's outside of range. Coronach is just that much better.

[Kaeko]

Both Gun and Bow relic WS have fixed hate. Namas Arrow is something like 160 CE / 480 VE while Coronach is 80 CE / 240 VE (the exact same as Hojo:Ni, which was used in the example above). Coronach as the addition enmity down stat aftermath which I don't have numbers for.

If either WS misses, you generate no enmity (same as any missed attack or WS).

Nowadays, a well geared RNG can probably pull hate w/o WS damage on some things so the Coronach added effect seems very useful. I don't have numbers for it but by very stories, it's quite potent.

[Spider-Dan]

Math-wise, I would not try to calculate this, but I would expect on average Coronach would produce somwhat higher damage on most some mobs due to the higher total base damage of gun plus bullet, versus Namas bow plus arrow, while the higher weapon rank on Yochi might provide for a higher potential damage.

At max potential using Hume 75RNG/SAM w/maxed STR merits:

base
STR 67
DEX 65
AGI 70

Yoichi+PPA = D121 (D119 with Kabura)
fSTR2 cap (rank 9) = 34
Namas = STR_40 AGI_40 fTP 2.75

max STR
STR 67+70 = 137
DEX 65+22 = 87
AGI 70+23 = 93

(121 + 34 + 76) * 2.75 * 3 = 1905
(119 + 34 + 76) * 2.75 * 3 = 1889

Annihilator+silvers = D128
fSTR2 cap (rank 5) = 26
Coronach = DEX_40 AGI_40 fTP 3.0

with same gear as above:
STR 67+70 = 137
DEX 65+22 = 87
AGI 70+23 = 93

(128 + 26 + 59) * 3.0 * 3 = 1917

with some DEX/AGI changes (still heavy STR):
STR 67+58 = 125
DEX 65+28 = 93
AGI 70+44 = 114

presuming fSTR2 - 6 because of 12 less STR

(128 + 20 + 68) * 3.0 * 3 = 1944

max DEX/AGI
STR 67+39 = 106
DEX 65+46 = 111
AGI 70+53 = 123

presuming fSTR2 - 9 because of 19 less STR

(128 + 11 + 77) * 3.0 * 3 = 1944

So yeah, Coronach > Namas, but it's pretty damn close. They will effectively deal the same damage vs. most targets, I think.

For point of reference:

PPA Sidewinder- (121 + 34 + 37) * 5.0 * 3 = 2880
Kabura Sidewinder- (119 + 34 + 37) * 5.0 * 3 = 2850
Slug (in second gearset)- (128 + 20 + 28) * 5.0 * 3 = 2640
Culverin+1+Heavy Shell Slug (in second gearset)- (150 + 20 + 28) * 5.0 * 3 = 2970
Culverin+1+cannon Slug (in second gearset)- (141 + 20 + 28) * 5.0 * 3 = 2835