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Thread: Whats Better? II     submit to reddit submit to twitter submit to tumblr

  1. #1
    Sassy Tyrant
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    Whats Better? II

    Quote Originally Posted by colomis View Post
    Rocl: To avoid the unecessary creation of thousands of simple gear comparison threads, we'll attempt to make this your generic gear question thread. If it doesn't work, I blame Suiram.
    Original Thread: http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/46517-whats-better.html
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  2. #2
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    I tried Polearm on WAR today with 2 March, Haste and Fighter's Roll, just over 90% Acc, and I could not make it do more damage than Perdu Voulge. If I merit 8/8 Polearm which I plan to anyway, can it really beat Great Axe?
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Starr View Post
    I tried Polearm on WAR today with 2 March, Haste and Fighter's Roll, just over 90% Acc, and I could not make it do more damage than Perdu Voulge. If I merit 8/8 Polearm which I plan to anyway, can it really beat Great Axe?
    polearm only works if your a SAM with polearm merits. forget it for war, its just for fun really i think. A sam without polearm merits with full usukane wont do more dmg than G katana either ( both are about the same dmg). It is much better only if the SAM has merits because then he can cap accuracy, haste, and 5-hit build with meat.
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  4. #4

    75 Pup Looking to boost Stringing Pummel Trying to pick between Puppetry Babouches +1 vs Usukane Sune-Ate My ws build has +61 acc not counting feet and 70+26 dex. I have 8 H2H merits and just trying to max it out but even the parses are pretty close atm.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by mdkuser View Post
    polearm only works if your a SAM with polearm merits. forget it for war, its just for fun really i think. A sam without polearm merits with full usukane wont do more dmg than G katana either ( both are about the same dmg). It is much better only if the SAM has merits because then he can cap accuracy, haste, and 5-hit build with meat.
    This is absolutely untrue.
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  6. #6
    Burninate all the things.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tsuko_Asura View Post
    This is absolutely untrue.
    Quoted for Emphasis. Polearm SAM most definitely does not need merits to be good, and will destroy a comparatively geared GKT SAM at *Birds* every time.

    I'm not sure what to tell you about WAR, though. I've never tried that, or seen it tried much.
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  7. #7
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    It generally falls a tad under, what with the lack of 5-hit availability and Overwhelm, but the skill levels are the same, and Aggressor is still a fantastic tool. But even if you go the Crab Sushi path, a 6-hit polearm build is going to surpass a 6-hit greataxe build.
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  8. #8
    Chram
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    Pretty much what Tsuko said, WAR has the higher acc and superior WS pieces over SAM, but Overwhelm and 5-hit really pushes SAM on another plateau on birds versus WAR.
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  9. #9
    TSwiftie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suiram View Post
    The only person who has investigated it that I know of is Kirschy, and it seemed like it was whole number only, but maybe there's room for possibly being wrong? (They do put fraction values in the .dat files, but I think the idea is that that's just used for the calculations, but all actual real recasts are whole seconds? Maybe Kirschy will see this.) Anyway,

    http://www.bluegartr.com/forum/61643...ste-stuff.html
    I'm fairly certian recast can only be a whole number, but I only have one piece of evidence proving this. While some base recasts DO have fractional seconds, the recast number that first pops up in menu always shows for about ~1 second. Since we can add 1/1024th (.098%) haste using victory march, you can find a boundry value for a recast. Lets use the following general example:

    1)x Haste * base recast = 30.01 seconds
    2)x + 1/1024 Haste * base recast = 29.99 seconds

    In case 1, 30 seconds will show up as the recast for about ~1 second.
    In case 2, 29 seconds will show up as the recast for about ~1 second.

    Is this 100% proof that recasts can only be whole numbers? No. But I feel it's strong enough evidence to follow it.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tsuko_Asura View Post
    This is absolutely untrue.
    I parsed against myself, one hour on GK one hour in polearm, othe DDs using same setups. My polearm build does about the same dmg as Gk build, compared to the other DDs. there is no way polearm can be much better than Gkatana, for reasons obvious to every one: lack of accuracy and attack. if you don't have merits you have to get your accuracy and attack somewhere. Gkatana has like 50 more acc and attack... I know its hard to parse against self, but you should do it. if your sam and dont have a 5-hit set up just forget it. 6-hit > 5-hit is 25% more ws damage, with same melee damage. shouldn't be overlooked.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by mdkuser View Post
    there is no way polearm can be much better than Gkatana, for reasons obvious to every one: lack of accuracy and attack. if you don't have merits you have to get your accuracy and attack somewhere. Gkatana has like 50 more acc and attack...
    28 acc/31atk comparing hagun to tomoe, at 80% hitrate 600 attack with tomoe for this example

    Assuming a 5hit with tomoe vs a 6hit with hagun using usukane sune-ate + rajas ring for hagun, usukane sune-ate + rajas ring + brutal for tp and ws + wsing in hachiman kote for tomoe.. double march and haste

    450 * .46 = 207 delay * 5 swings = 1035 delay/ws
    480 * .46 = 220.8 delay * 4 swings = 883.2 delay/ws = 17.2% more ws with tomoe 5hit @ capped acc, at an abysmal 80% acc like previously mentioned you end up with 1.4% faster tp cycle with hagun

    600 / 327 = 1.835 ratio, 1.485 cratio on highest level greater colibri (tomoe)
    631 / 327 = 1.930 ratio, 1.580 cratio on highest level greater colibri (hagun)

    With ~3 fstr during tp, hagun is 78 base damage * 1.58 = 123.25 average hit
    123.25 * 5 = 616.25 average melee damage per tp phase
    Haguns FSTR cap is 16, assuming you ws in 140 str you'll hit this cap(very high end gear).
    91 base damage + (140 * .75) = 196 base damage * 1.875 ftp = 367.5 base damage * ~2.5 capped pdif = 918.75 average ws * 1.19 overwhelm = 1093.31
    1709.56 average tp->ws phase

    With the same ~3 fstr during tp, Tomoe is 89 base damage * 1.485 = 132.165 * 1.25 piercing bonus = 165.2 average hit
    165.2 * 4 = 660.8 average melee damage per tp phase
    Assuming ~90 STR and DEX and capped acc in WS gear(easy to pump another 30 acc into ws from tp set if needed) as well as 20 more attack than TP gear, 8 fSTR puts tomoe at D:94 and mods increase this to D:130. 1.58 cratio * 130 = 205.4 damage/swing * 5 swings = 1027 damage * 1.25 piercing bonus = 1283.75 * 1.19 overwhelm = 1527.66 average penta with these stats
    2188.46 average tp->ws phase
    Factoring that Haguns tp cycle is 1.4% faster, you end up with:

    1733.49 damage from hagun in the same time as
    2188.46 damage from tomoe, assuming no merits in either and polearm acc is at 80% in tp gear

    This leaves polearm winning by a comfortable 26%, even if you gimp up the ws gear a bit(admittedly that was mostly pulled out of my head for example stats) polearm will win.. and any competent DD should be able to manage 80% hitrate with it.
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  12. #12

    Quote Originally Posted by mdkuser View Post
    I parsed against myself, one hour on GK one hour in polearm, othe DDs using same setups. My polearm build does about the same dmg as Gk build, compared to the other DDs. there is no way polearm can be much better than Gkatana, for reasons obvious to every one: lack of accuracy and attack. if you don't have merits you have to get your accuracy and attack somewhere. Gkatana has like 50 more acc and attack... I know its hard to parse against self, but you should do it. if your sam and dont have a 5-hit set up just forget it. 6-hit > 5-hit is 25% more ws damage, with same melee damage. shouldn't be overlooked.
    I've parsed against myself plenty of times, perhaps the problem is you're trying to use a shitty meat build with your polearm. If you are trying to cap accuracy with no madrigal and no sushi, I think you're doing it wrong. You're better off ignoring accuracy (well, always choosing haste over it), stacking full haste, and eating sushi.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by mdkuser View Post
    I parsed against myself, one hour on GK one hour in polearm, othe DDs using same setups. My polearm build does about the same dmg as Gk build, compared to the other DDs. there is no way polearm can be much better than Gkatana, for reasons obvious to every one: lack of accuracy and attack. if you don't have merits you have to get your accuracy and attack somewhere. Gkatana has like 50 more acc and attack... I know its hard to parse against self, but you should do it. if your sam and dont have a 5-hit set up just forget it. 6-hit > 5-hit is 25% more ws damage, with same melee damage. shouldn't be overlooked.
    I tried it too, the gap wasn't nearly as huge as people made it out to be my avg dmg done per mob only increased by 5~9%, and I have full merited polearm, though now with usukane mask, could probably push polearm bit better, but I ussually just go drg anyways.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by FailureMidgard View Post
    I've parsed against myself plenty of times, perhaps the problem is you're trying to use a shitty meat build with your polearm. If you are trying to cap accuracy with no madrigal and no sushi, I think you're doing it wrong. You're better off ignoring accuracy (well, always choosing haste over it), stacking full haste, and eating sushi.
    Are you suggesting spamming sushi on birds?
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  15. #15
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    Usu mask is worse than Turban. People need to stop sacrificing haste for accuracy, you can cap accuracy without losing haste anywhere.
    Please tell how you're going to cap acc with polearm at birds, w/o giving any haste, cause even with getting madrigal/march still was only in 80%s don't remember exact % been few months since did that merit pt.
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  16. #16
    The Mizzle Fizzle of Nikkei's Haremizzle

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    Quote Originally Posted by ringthree View Post
    Are you suggesting spamming sushi on birds?
    Better than Kabobs no?
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  17. #17
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    For a fully meritted thf with meat build using Dancing Edge...

    Soil Gorget vs Breeze Gorget?

    And..

    <above winner> vs. Love Torque?
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  18. #18
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    Which gorget doesn't matter as long as they work with the WS.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mizango View Post
    Better than Kabobs no?
    Never really thought about it much. I have never really worried about gearing for one XP camp. Other people seem to spend a lot more time there than me. /shrug
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  20. #20
    You just got served THE CALLISTO SPECIAL
    SASSAGE KING OF DA WORLD
    cheap hawks gay

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyriu View Post
    Which gorget doesn't matter as long as they work with the WS.
    ^

    If using SA Love Torque, otherwise Gorget I believe.

    Edit: Actually for something with as many hits as DE I guess that can be incorrect, the +7 attack on all 5 may outdo the .1 fTP on the first one, someone better at math will have to tackle that one.
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