Whats Better? II

[Fluid]

I recently picked up a Beak Mantle with the following augments:

+1 DEX +6 Acc -1 Atk

I've got WAR, SAM and DNC leveled, and don't have the gil for a Chuchu mantle at the moment, so the main alternative is Forager's. Using it for DNC is a no-brainer, but how about WAR and SAM? It seems like it would likely beat out Forager's for TP - any thoughts?

[Brigandier]

Pre-CoP, Haste vs 6 hit on SAM:

Currently I'm working on my CoP (so no Rajas or Brutal yet) and I am wondering which would be better to focus on gearwise in merits until I get that taken care of.

So, which would you suggest (sorry for the malformed links, my post count is too low to post URLs...):

Haste build (my current default TP build):

ffxigear.com/?ref=14684

Or this "6 hit" build:

ffxigear.com/?ref=14685

It's pretty much 14% haste 6 hit vs 20% Haste 7 hit. I know Haste has increasing returns, so if my math is right (figuring Haste spell, March, Hasso = 35%~ haste):

35% haste + 14% haste equip: 196% DoT
35% haste + 20% haste equip: 222% DoT

Will the 6 hit outdo the DoT difference of the extra haste?

[Tsuko_Asura]

Six-hit takes precedence.

[Jesifromgaruda]

I recently picked up a Beak Mantle with the following augments:

+1 DEX +6 Acc -1 Atk

I've got WAR, SAM and DNC leveled, and don't have the gil for a Chuchu mantle at the moment, so the main alternative is Forager's. Using it for DNC is a no-brainer, but how about WAR and SAM? It seems like it would likely beat out Forager's for TP - any thoughts?

I have been spamming that ACP mission trying to get myself one of those. C. Mantles are 4.5 mil on garuda, ugh.

I'm not a math expert but here is what I'm thinking. Saying that foragers is better than the beak mantle is like saying that brynie is > than hauby. Or that bomb core > fire bomblet.

Unless you are in a situation where your acc is capped w/o the beak mantle, wear foragers. If you eat pizza and your acc still isn't capped in an event, use the beak mantle.

Those beak mantles are sexy sexy sexy for those of us who don't have 4.5 mil or don't live on a server that owns La Vaule [S] constantly.

EDIT: I love how everyone has a different name for the Cuchulain's Mantle. I usually call it C. Mantle, my friend calls it the Coochie Mantle and you call it the Chuchu Mantle. It's like a train! lol

[Brigandier]

Six-hit takes precedence.

Hi Tsuko,

I appreciate the advice, but do you care to share what type of math led you to this conclusion? I don't doubt you, just wondering so I can make future calculations on my end.

Thanks

[Jesifromgaruda]

Six-hit takes precedence.

Yeah it really sucks losing out on that 6% haste, but not having 6 hit you lose a retarded amount of power.

Ok heres a question for you guys. What's Better?

This setup on SAM:

- FFXIAH.com

Which is using ACP body with +4 sTP and +4 subtle blow and +10 acc, so I can keep my Fumas on for the 3% haste, OR using hachiman feet with hauby+1. I'm thinking the 3% haste is > than 1 STR 1 DEX +12 atk and +2 acc.

But I would like to hear what you guys think. In case it matters, my haste is 17% from gear w/o fumas and 20% with them. And I know the real answer is usu feet + hauby +1, but my group isn't starting salvage for a couple weeks yet so it might be months before I get them.

[Raylinn]

Have a question regarding evisceration as thief.

Full Skadi setup for crit%+
vs
Full dex setup for modifiers.

I'm already pretty certain that full dex will win out at colibri, but for higher level stuff, I imagine the higher chance of crits could be beneficial.

[Jesifromgaruda]

Hi Tsuko,

I appreciate the advice, but do you care to share what type of math led you to this conclusion? I don't doubt you, just wondering so I can make future calculations on my end.

Thanks

Again, I'm not a super math whiz like a lot of people on here, but here is the general thinking behind this. You are losing 6% haste, but you are gaining the ability to WS a full weapon hit faster than normal. This is going to allow you to WS more often than the 6% haste will, which leads to the damage difference.

For myself, the day I got 6 hit it was awesome. I noticed a very nice difference not having to wait for that extra hit to WS and it's always cool seeing your TP at exactly 100%

[Raen Ryong]

Hi Tsuko,

I appreciate the advice, but do you care to share what type of math led you to this conclusion? I don't doubt you, just wondering so I can make future calculations on my end.

Thanks

Basically

7hit to 6hit means you go from 6 hits between each WS (7hit) to 5 hits between each WS (6hit).

The improvement is therefore 1/6 = 16.7% increase in WS frequency in a perfect situation. In reality, will be less due to TP overflow etc but it's still a significant increase.

[Brigandier]

Thanks guys, I realize it almost seems like a stupid question (I realize you get to WS that much more often and sooner lol) - I just couldn't come to the conclusion if that damage increase was enough to offset the 26% DoT increase that haste is giving me (i.e., assuming I had Haste/Hasso/March up, which may not always be the case).

Thanks again

[mdkuser]

Yeah it really sucks losing out on that 6% haste, but not having 6 hit you lose a retarded amount of power.

Ok heres a question for you guys. What's Better?

This setup on SAM:

- FFXIAH.com

Which is using ACP body with +4 sTP and +4 subtle blow and +10 acc, so I can keep my Fumas on for the 3% haste, OR using hachiman feet with hauby+1. I'm thinking the 3% haste is > than 1 STR 1 DEX +12 atk and +2 acc.

But I would like to hear what you guys think. In case it matters, my haste is 17% from gear w/o fumas and 20% with them. And I know the real answer is usu feet + hauby +1, but my group isn't starting salvage for a couple weeks yet so it might be months before I get them.

your set up is much better.

[BerenTebogo]

Tomoe or Gondo-Shizunori for WAR? ACC5 ATT5 D86 vs D85 crit +6%

[PeaceNLove]

WAR can't use Tomoe, bro.

[BerenTebogo]

Augh. Meant that other one, engetsu +1? Basically same stats. ACC+3 D86

[Vodou]

Pre-CoP, Haste vs 6 hit on SAM:

Currently I'm working on my CoP (so no Rajas or Brutal yet) and I am wondering which would be better to focus on gearwise in merits until I get that taken care of.

So, which would you suggest (sorry for the malformed links, my post count is too low to post URLs...):

Haste build (my current default TP build):

ffxigear.com/?ref=14684

Or this "6 hit" build:

ffxigear.com/?ref=14685

It's pretty much 14% haste 6 hit vs 20% Haste 7 hit. I know Haste has increasing returns, so if my math is right (figuring Haste spell, March, Hasso = 35%~ haste):

35% haste + 14% haste equip: 196% DoT
35% haste + 20% haste equip: 222% DoT

Will the 6 hit outdo the DoT difference of the extra haste?

I always thought the math would like this:

third set is haste unchanged and 7-hit
second set is haste unchanged and 6-hit where WS replace the melee swings equally
first set is haste unchanged and 6-hit where WS is additive to the existing melee swings

I always thought second set is how the game mechanics work, but I've seen people suggest the first set. Either way, in these MADE UP NUMBERS for melee and WS, its about a 9-10% increase. Not shabby, but the key driver is the variance between the avg WS damage and the avg melee.

The question would SEEM to boild down to whether 6% haste in the OP's example will beat +10% damage. Obviously at a certain point, 6% haste will add more than 10% damage.

Please correct the math if you disagree. I haven't spent much time pondering this and I would like to know how it works myself.

[Brigandier]

No I can see exactly what you mean Vodou, and this is exactly the type of thing I was wanting to see. It all seems to hinge on exactly how much haste you have, and after scouring for the past few hours it seems it would take a very large amount of haste to begin approaching the extra damage from 6-hit. I'm going to try to find a merit PT tonight and do some experimental parsing (not to compare the two builds, but to get my average melee vs WS damage values), then put the pencil to it to figure out just how much better it is.

[Shinryuu]

Augh. Meant that other one, engetsu +1? Basically same stats. ACC+3 D86

Engetsuto +1 if it doesn't hurt 6-hit shenanigans but NQ Engetsuto is not as good as Gondo I'd say (close, though)

[Knyghtmayre]

@Sath I'd personally take the Crit+6% over Acc+3 on birds, assuming you're maintaining a 6hit with both.

Which is using ACP body with +4 sTP and +4 subtle blow and +10 acc, so I can keep my Fumas on for the 3% haste, OR using hachiman feet with hauby+1. I'm thinking the 3% haste is > than 1 STR 1 DEX +12 atk and +2 acc.

Haste+3% will definitely beat out the Acc+2, attack is mostly irrelevant for Hagun TPing since your primary goal is to maximize WS frequency because Hagun has the DoT of a lv59 GKT.

I know the real answer is usu feet + hauby +1, but my group isn't starting salvage for a couple weeks yet so it might be months before I get them.

Your accuracy in that set is very low. You'd gain accuracy and gil by going from Chiv chain+Blood ring to Spectacles+Ecphoria ring (on most servers anyway).

[BerenTebogo]

Ok 50th WAR question this week. Would A. Torquue > Gorget for Raging Rush? I know this a stretch but I have a feeling it'd be close.

[Shinryuu]

If both hitrate and DEX are used to their fullest, I guess, yes.