Whats Better? II

[Hyriu]

STR

[Shinryuu]

DEX

[Jakson]

CHR














Ok, STR.

[Dathus]

Oily Trousers for COR. Would I be better off with those or Pahluwan? Same for RNG. Or rather, what legs should I use on RNG when I get higher? Currently using Akinji, and want to know the upgrade(s) I should be looking for. And not Hachiryu haidate.

[Velecic]

Oily Trousers for COR. Would I be better off with those or Pahluwan? Same for RNG. Or rather, what legs should I use on RNG when I get higher? Currently using Akinji, and want to know the upgrade(s) I should be looking for. And not Hachiryu haidate.

This depends if you're talking about WSing, Meleeing, or Shooting.
But a few options at higher level are:
Enkidu's Subligar (both jobs)
Skadi's Chausses (both jobs)
Scout's Braccae(if you need the ranged acc, rng only)

Those are the ones I can think of right now that aren't Hachiryu Haidate.

Question of my own :

For RNG shooting TP gain, Maat's Cap vs. AF/AF+1 Head?

[Thunder]

Ranged PDIF only suffers half the level correction if I recall correctly. This makes ranged attack (compared to normal melee attack) less valuable, not more. For normal melee it already goes that ACC easily beats attack even when it's a relative low amount vs. a relative big amount, so therefore 3% ranged hitrate (from AF body) > Shikaree aketon.

So.. is this correct?

[Starr]

Yes

[Raen Ryong]

Well, depends how you look at it. It's true that there is less level correction so adding rattack isn't as huge, but at the same time ranged pdif caps a lot higher than melee pdif if you can get enough rattack (less level correction helps with this) and on a minor point ranged criticals work differently to melee criticals. The higher your pdif, the more raw damage is added, not in a decreasing returns sense as in melee criticals.

Furthermore, if you are comparing ratk vs STR, rangers tend to have a huge base D so adding fSTR2 doesn't tend to do that much (unless it's in large quantities). Racc is definitely the way to go during TP; Osode wouldn't be anywhere near as good without that AGI10!

[mdkuser]

The maths has been done already based on having usu body availible to the Pachi user. Hagun still came out as a clear winner because you are sacrificing a decent amount of WS damage and the extra delay on pachi negates the rest of the benefit from having a 5 hit.

I finished reading the maths linked on KI, imitated the maths in that thread with the new variables ( cuchu or pizza destroy their -3% hit rate argument).

I compared 6-hit Hagun (in the best case scenario for hagun: sword strap and usukane body) versus pachipachio with pole grip and usukane body/cuchu mantle. Pachipachio wins doing 2.5% more dmg. I took target's VIT to be 80 (MMJ), 140 STR on WS and 86 on TP like my current set up, capped accuracy.

[FailureMidgard]

I finished reading the maths linked on KI, imitated the maths in that thread with the new variables ( cuchu or pizza destroy their -3% hit rate argument).

I compared 6-hit Hagun (in the best case scenario for hagun: sword strap and usukane body) versus pachipachio with pole grip and usukane body/cuchu mantle. Pachipachio wins doing 2.5% more dmg. I took target's VIT to be 80 (MMJ), 140 STR on WS and 86 on TP like my current set up, capped accuracy.

Show your 2 gearsets, and the math, if you want to make this claim. It's hard to pick apart all the things you probably have wrong otherwise.

[Killkenny]

I finished reading the maths linked on KI, imitated the maths in that thread with the new variables ( cuchu or pizza destroy their -3% hit rate argument).

I compared 6-hit Hagun (in the best case scenario for hagun: sword strap and usukane body) versus pachipachio with pole grip and usukane body/cuchu mantle. Pachipachio wins doing 2.5% more dmg. I took target's VIT to be 80 (MMJ), 140 STR on WS and 86 on TP like my current set up, capped accuracy.

The maths has been done on BG.

[Shinryuu]

Thorny did Pachi vs. Hagun math and hagun wins.

[Arthars]

nothing beats hagun man

except amano and futsuno im sure

HAGUN IS ALSO GETTING BUFFED TOO THIS PATCH PROBABLY!

[Shinryuu]

Math on Pachi vs. Hagun is kinda easy. From a naked D75 Delay480 weapon w/ 6hit both weapons increase damage in different ways:

25% WS frequency (times parsed WS/TP ratio) for Pachi
20% WS damage (times parsed WS/TP ratio) for Hagun
3% hitrate for Hagun, +%damage is (newhitrate-oldhitrate)/oldhitrate*100
+some PDIF for Pachi, +% damage is ((new attack/defense-level correction)-(old attack/defense-level correction))/(old attack/defense-level correction) * 100 * TP/WS ratio
+DMG for Pachi, 7 DMG is at most 9%ish during TP (so times TP/WS) and way way less than that during WS (times WS/TP ratio); for calculating this take into account fSTR during TP and fSTR + WS mod on WS
6.7% more damage due to delay difference for Hagun

Multiply all the +damage%s for both and the one with the highest +% wins.

This is assuming both Pachi and Hagun are geared similarly; if not, subtract the loss in total damage% for gearing inferiorly (for instance, -3% haste if Pachi needs hachi hands; idk bro)

[pchan]

Math on Pachi vs. Hagun is kinda easy. From a naked D75 Delay480 weapon w/ 6hit both weapons increase damage in different ways:

25% WS frequency (times parsed WS/TP ratio) for Pachi
20% WS damage (times parsed WS/TP ratio) for Hagun
3% hitrate for Hagun, +%damage is (newhitrate-oldhitrate)/oldhitrate*100
+some PDIF for Pachi, +% damage is ((new attack/defense-level correction)-(old attack/defense-level correction))/(old attack/defense-level correction) * 100 * TP/WS ratio
+DMG for Pachi, 7 DMG is at most 9%ish during TP (so times TP/WS) and way way less than that during WS (times WS/TP ratio); for calculating this take into account fSTR during TP and fSTR + WS mod on WS
6.7% more damage due to delay difference for Hagun

Add all the +damage%s up for both and the one with the highest +% wins.

This is assuming both Pachi and Hagun are geared similarly; if not, subtract the loss in total damage% for gearing inferiorly (for instance, -3% haste if Pachi needs hachi hands; idk bro)

you probably meant multiply. If I gain x% from DMG and y% from pdif, the result is not (x+y)% but (1+x)(1+y)-1 %.

And you don't don't need to drop haste.

[Yugl]

Mix of Randomest Question/What's Better question:

With Pizza, what ACC in gear is best to strive for on DRG? I'm looking mostly at Apollyon/Einherjar/Dynamis/HNMs.

With this in mind, and with this set up, what is the best combination of Body/Back/Grip/Ranged pieces among the following:

Grip: Pole Grip, Sword Strap (Where TP/Hit is greater than or equal to 17), or sTP Grip (sTP+4)

Ranged: White Tathlum/Black Tathlum

Body: Zahak's/Aurum/Ares

Back: Foragers/Cuchulain

Note that at 17TP/Hit, it's possible to substitute a Non-6-Hit Build set for Jumps.

[Kaishen]

Picking my stats for ACP body was absurdly easy. The stats for COR QD were so awesome and unique, I just couldn't pass it up. I'm not having such an easy time with the hat though.

I've narrowed it down to two choices, neither of which get me all hot and bothered like the ACP body did.

Champion's Galea
Str+4, WS Acc+15
Acc+10, Att+5
for my WAR and DRG (currently use O hat for WSs, and no N.head in the foreseeable future)

Selenian cap
INT+4, M.Acc+2
M.Acc+3, hMP+3
for my SCH

Based on stats, the WS piece looks like a better deal to me, but its biggest selling point is that it allows you to swap out more STR for WS where you used to use Acc. But I don't really see any actual slots where I could do that with gear I might be able to get anytime soon.

The mage hat, on the other hand, is a pretty decent SCH nuking piece for high resist situations, but doesn't really blow me away. I do really like how it looks though... But on the other hand my SCH is still only 60 and likely won't be 75 for at least a month, maybe 2.

Any advice?

[Seraph]

--------------------------------------
Edit:

Let me even be more specific. All other things being equal, which would be better for TPing for a DRG/SAM maintaining a 6-hit build?

HP+20 STR+5 DEX+5 VIT+5, Accuracy+14, Attack+10
or
STR+5, Accuracy+5, Attack+12, Evasion+12, "Double Attack"+4%
or
HP+28, MP+28, Accuracy+19, "Triple Attack"+1%

[Max™]

I don't understand where you're getting these stats from...

It looks like a Drgbergeon Coselete... a Korazin... and a Corazza... but I don't know where the fuck the other stats are showing up.

[mdkuser]

Show your 2 gearsets, and the math, if you want to make this claim. It's hard to pick apart all the things you probably have wrong otherwise.

Here are my maths. Feel free to point out where it is wrong if it is... Pachipachio wins by 3%.

Gear sets are the following. It is the same accuracy and attack for both sets,
plus or minus one (and it is in favor of pachipachio). For the computations the accuracy
is supposed to be 100%. ACC is mainly irrelevant because both sets have the same acc.

Pachipachio
pachipachio, pole grip, Black tahlum
Usu body, dusk, ulthalam, rajas
Cuchu, swift, byakkos, usu feet.

WS: use hachiman feet+1 for no str loss (140 STR) and 6 more stp for a 5-hit.

Hagun
Hagun, sword strap, foragers. rest the same

WS: what it should be (140 STR).


Hagun damage will be taken as a reference and I'll compare pachipachio to it.

Spoiler: show

The standart damage distribution for hagun, in perfect situations, is 1/3 melee 2/3 WS.

The average melee damage will be M=100 and average ( non DA'd) WS is
1000. With 15% DA rate the actual WS dmg is 1000*0.85+1000*0.85*2.975/1.975

W=1075.95...

I counted the +0.1 ftp from sea gorgets.

Next, to compute the average damage in a given amount of time, I'll consider
a weapon skill cycle and take into account the possible double attacks ( base p=0.15=15%):

- No DA. Happens with probablility (1-p)^5. damage= 5*M+W over the cycle, which lasts a delay of 5*436.
-one DA on one of the first four hits: proba=4*p*(1-p)^3, dmg=5*M+W, delay=4*436
-one DA on 5th hit: proba=(1-p)^4*p, dmg=6*M+W, delay=5*436.
-hit DA DA, or, DA hit DA, or DA DA hit: 3*(1-p)*p^2, dmg=5*M+W, delay=3*436.
-hit hit DA DA, hit DA hit DA, or DA hit hit DA: proba=3*(1-p)^2*p^2, dmg= 6*M+W, delay=4*436.
-three DAs: proba=p^3, dmg= 6*M+W, delay= 3*436.

total proba=1


for the final average damage per delay you do the sum of dmg*proba/delay (6 terms) and find

Hagun=.8342443853

Pachipachio math here.

Spoiler: show

Frst off, the melee gear with pachi has 87str, versus 86str for hagun. So the new everage melee dmg is
100*(82+1+7/4)/(75+1+6/4)

M=109.355...

The new WS ( non DA'd) is done with 140 str, so WSC= 140*0.75*0.83=87, and fstr=1+60/4=16, ftp=1.6625
instead of 1.975 so 1000*(1.6625/1.975)*(82+16+87)/(75+16+87)=874.875...

The new average WS dmg, counting DAs, is 874.875*0.83+874.875*0.17*2.6625/1.6625

W=964.336..

Now you have to compute the damage over a weapon skill cycle, taking into account all possible DAs during the TP phase. The possibilities are, with p=0.17=17% DA rate:

-No DAs: proba=(1-p)^4, dmg=4*M+W, delay=4*480.
-One DA in the first 3 hits: proba= 3*p*(1-p)^2, dmg= 4*M+W, delay=3*480.
-one DA on the last hit: proba=(1-p)^3*p, dmg= 5*M+W, delay=4*480.
-hit DA DA or DA hit DA: proba=2*(1-p)*p^2, dmg=5*M+W, delay=3*480.
-two DAs in a row: proba= p^2, dmg= 4*M+W, delay=2*480.

total proba=1.

for the final average damage per delay you do the sum of dmg*proba/delay (5 terms) and find

pachipachio=.8597705188

Pachipachio/hagun=.8597705188/.8342443853=1.030597909=+3% DMG.