Whats Better? II

[Killkenny]

There shouldn't be any meat builds anymore, short of a fully HQ'd/meritted/relic 2 hander you can't make a meat build outparse pizza on anything from mamools upwards. This has been beaten to death, even the mention of a ninja using meat should have the same effect as a sam using onimaru or anything except drg using Askar body.

Gear for haste, then use as much accuracy as you need to cap with pizza and if you have any space leftover gear attack/str/dex.

[Deimos]

Assuming fSTR is not capped, Rajas should outdo a 7acc assuming it drops your "x hit" build by 1 hit at least.

EDIT: Also note that I am not including attack and possible critical hit increases from using Rajas, which make it even better.

Hmm, I don't think I've ever even considered an "x hit" build applied to a dual-wield type job before. I suppose it still works, but it seems a little strange due to the potential for odd numbers of double-attacks/kicks. I'd have to do the math to see if Rajas+Brutal does anything to my number of hits (no Usukane yet), but if it doesn't take an attack round off, the Acc ring should be better?

[Cream Soda]

From 0-100 even if u wanted to take rajas stp into account, only need to land 4 hits w/ rajas on to lower ur xhit and can swap back to acc ring for the rest.

Depending on your tp return from asuran, can be more or less. I'm gonna work on check the TP values of all the possible tp returns from asuran and work my ring macros around that to get the best performance.

Edit: full usu mnk that is

[mdkuser]

meat builds are 2007, 2008 brought pizza guys! so rajas is full time for me on monk except situations where I can't eat pizza ( colibris..).

85% acc was acceptable before pizza but after pizza its not anymore really.

[FailureMidgard]

For fixed nonroaming party, maybe we can assume there are a finite number of mobs M within radius R of the party and they repop at rate P. Then if party kill speed > P, M depletes until it reaches zero ie no mobs are up within optimum pulling range. At that point puller either needs to go outside R (long pull, may break chain) or wait for next pop (= kill delay and may also break chain).

Isn't that how it works? Suggests that in that situation switch to roaming party is optimal (which is how my best meripos have usually gone although it's been a while). So overall party strategy and behavior more important than having a puller that can fly. Rate of repops eventually becomes limiting and forces switch to roaming strategy if your party is very strong.

Anyhow, if that's wrong then let me know. Thanks.

Thanks, I understand how that all works. Unless you have like ~2-3 relics, you are never going to hit that point at a bird camp unless your party is so bad that it can't keep chain on wivres. There should always be a mob in camp as the previous dies. Really, the same goes for MJSP camps.

meat builds are 2007, 2008 brought pizza guys! so rajas is full time for me on monk except situations where I can't eat pizza ( colibris..).

85% acc was acceptable before pizza but after pizza its not anymore really.

Wish everyone else would realize that. Pretty sure the meat "fad" was just that - a fad, and didn't really have any basis in math anyway, but w/e.

[Martinius]

blarg, i had this whole post laid out, realized i had it in the wrong thread, and deleted it without copying it... cliff notes:

1) mnk. back after long absence, so no linkshell, and most of my friends play at different times than i do. leveling it in campaign, leaving my h2h skill lacking. what mobs are best for a level 70 mnk to raise h2h on (so gonna have to be EM or very lucky in besieged). have all sjs available except /pld. or do i need to just suck it and sit with my flag up/put a pt together while watching 'dexter' on netflix streaming?

2) rng on birds. only have obow and hellfire available since i'm not shelling out 3.4 mil for an e-bow when i have sam, blm and soon mnk available to me, so playing rng, despite being my first 75, is a rare occurrence. have full god gear/full af1/af2, so have a traditional build (osode, ohat/wyvern helm, etc) and a rapid shot/snapshot build(af1 hat, af2 body). i recall acid bolts and holy bolts being unimpressive on birds... so am i just consigned to mainline darksteels? (i'm 100+3 woodworking, so making them isn't an issue). also, food? with most pts offering march/march, which does nothing except help my utsu timers, maining coeurl subs seems a bit on the expensive side. any other recommendations? i have a 100 cooking mule, so i can make them, just seems a little pricey. or is that just the life of the rng again?

many thanks

edit: what's the deal with pizza? curious for my sam and eventually mnk. sorry, been gone a long time ;;

[Thorny]

blarg, i had this whole post laid out, realized i had it in the wrong thread, and deleted it without copying it... cliff notes:

1) mnk. back after long absence, so no linkshell, and most of my friends play at different times than i do. leveling it in campaign, leaving my h2h skill lacking. what mobs are best for a level 70 mnk to raise h2h on (so gonna have to be EM or very lucky in besieged). have all sjs available except /pld. or do i need to just suck it and sit with my flag up/put a pt together while watching 'dexter' on netflix streaming?

sub dnc, do anything EM anywhere and you're fine

2) rng on birds. only have obow and hellfire available since i'm not shelling out 3.4 mil for an e-bow when i have sam, blm and soon mnk available to me, so playing rng, despite being my first 75, is a rare occurrence. have full god gear/full af1/af2, so have a traditional build (osode, ohat/wyvern helm, etc) and a rapid shot/snapshot build(af1 hat, af2 body). i recall acid bolts and holy bolts being unimpressive on birds... so am i just consigned to mainline darksteels? (i'm 100+3 woodworking, so making them isn't an issue). also, food? with most pts offering march/march, which does nothing except help my utsu timers, maining coeurl subs seems a bit on the expensive side. any other recommendations? i have a 100 cooking mule, so i can make them, just seems a little pricey. or is that just the life of the rng again?

camp a selene's bow, even if you gimp it all the way to scorpion arrows you'll end up outdamaging obow on mobs acids/holies dont stick on(and spend less on ammo).. its a very easy camp

what's the deal with pizza? curious for my sam and eventually mnk. sorry, been gone a long time ;;

if acc is uncapped but >70% use pizza, applies to both jobs

[Raen Ryong]

Hmm, I don't think I've ever even considered an "x hit" build applied to a dual-wield type job before. I suppose it still works, but it seems a little strange due to the potential for odd numbers of double-attacks/kicks. I'd have to do the math to see if Rajas+Brutal does anything to my number of hits (no Usukane yet), but if it doesn't take an attack round off, the Acc ring should be better?

Sorry for the slow reply, but yeah. The gain in WS frequency we can predict is just in a perfect situation anyway, assuming that you don't double attack and overflow TP, that you TP every single time at 100%+ TP without fail etc. It just means the realistic figure is lower than one would predict for a 2hander, but it -should- still be higher than what an acc ring would offer.

[Martinius]

thanks... i camped selene's for a while using sleep bolts, but had a whm friend backing me up for when para got through... i suppose i could just use a repeating crossbow and many stacks.

and interesting about pizza... i just looked it up... very curious food. will have to make some now i just need to find a parser that works lol.

[Midnightjade]

Thanks, I understand how that all works. Unless you have like ~2-3 relics, you are never going to hit that point at a bird camp unless your party is so bad that it can't keep chain on wivres. There should always be a mob in camp as the previous dies. Really, the same goes for MJSP camps.

It really doesn't need 2-3 relics, just a party of well-geared DD that know their stuff, plus support that ditto, you know. If a party has trouble with wivres then they shouldn't be there at all. And can happen easily at north mamool.

Someone should write an algorithm for when exactly fixed party switches to roaming as the more efficient strategy. I'm only a biologist so I'm not doing it, but you're a mathematician. *looks pointedly at Failure*

[Tortalius]

Aight Stringing Pummel Question: Pln. Seraweels (4acc 3 str) or Pantin Pants (5 acc 2 str 2 vit), or Volunteer's Brais (6acc). Acc isn't capped, but it's close on colibri.

[Cream Soda]

I'd have to say AF pants out of those options

[Callisto]

Hypothetical, for Raging Rush, were Accuracy to be assumed capped either way, Ares' Body vs. Zahak's Mail?

[Max™]

Easily Zahak's Id say, more Crits from the Dex, more Crits from the 3%, -2 Str and 24 Att.

Insert a bunch of math giving the average pDif boost from 24 Att against a merit mob, vs the huge 1.0 boost over a smaller number of hits from the added crits, pretty sure you won't be wanting to give up a 10 Dex/3% Crit piece for 0 Dex.

[BerenTebogo]

For Raging Rush I'm torn between potent or switching to warwolf.

This would be my set with Warwolf - no Sea so no Gorget - been to sky once on this char so no Nhands / feet yet - 8/8 Great Axe

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d1...709_134432.jpg

What do you guys think?

[Callisto]

I'd stick with Warwolf, I know we went back and forth yesterday but I've still found the most success sacrificing 2-3 Acc here and there and going for the crits.

[noodles355]

Again on the "no need for meat builds". If without food you can get a confident 85% Acc, I have a VERY hard time believing the 10% Acc from pizza will outdo the Attack gained from Red Curry or Hydra Kofte. Hydra may cost 30k and Curry may cost 70k, but they only cost 20 and 40k roughly each to craft. Just make some cook friends.

[Fujikun]

Warwolf , but you should make 2 macros , one with more acc and another one with more str/dex, depending on what are you fighting.

[Callisto]

I agree with that in general, the only reason I don't personally is that anything higher than merit mobs I'm going to be forced onto another job for.

[pchan]

Again on the "no need for meat builds". If without food you can get a confident 85% Acc, I have a VERY hard time believing the 10% Acc from pizza will outdo the Attack gained from Red Curry or Hydra Kofte. Hydra may cost 30k and Curry may cost 70k, but they only cost 20 and 40k roughly each to craft. Just make some cook friends.

1) 85% with meat build is gotten with several accuracy gears. Just removing 2 HQ rings puts you easily under 80%, PCC for a sea torque even less. I'm not even mentionning cuchulain. It basically means that a "serious pizza build" has more attack and more accuracy than a "serious meat build".

2) Pizza is 3k and better than curry unless you have a cor and a brd and that the brd does minuet with eventually gives less benefit than 2x march.