Optimum Merit Set Up

[Callisto]

Ah yeah, I didn't really think about Elegy. That's the same reason I can't go RDM/SCH to birds without a backline BRD, which kinda sucks.

[TacoTaru]

The main issue with DNC main heal is that BRD cannot use Elegy, as there is no method to erase it.

If it was a situation where elegy was going to be hitting anyone else, use Lamiabane. Things should be dying fast enough anyway.

[Gergall]

Edit NVM I am quite wrong.

[Tsuko_Asura]

Its exactly the same type of haste as Hasso. It counts towards the cap, and is cumulative with other forms.

[Shin Volcano]

If thereis a time where you don't want to risk elegy hitting then just don't cast it, therenody is good enough, things don't live long enough for elegy to matter really, i don't see why that's a big deal. or those mamollbane but i hav't tried one.

[test123]

I think I found the optimum setup for Birds after an insane 34k/hr today.

DRK apoc
SAM soboro/Yoichi
BRD/NIN - pulling and minuets
BRD/COR - Ballad, Marches and SAM roll
COR/NIN - pulling, Joyuse, Chaos and COR roll.
RDM/DRG - Hasting, Dia, Curing, Joyuse, Jumps 5% earring and DD gear.

[Milkster]

I think I found the optimum setup for Birds after an insane 34k/hr today.

DRK apoc
SAM soboro/Yoichi
BRD/NIN - pulling and minuets
BRD/COR - Ballad, Marches and SAM roll
COR/NIN - pulling, Joyuse, Chaos and COR roll.
RDM/DRG - Hasting, Dia, Curing, Joyuse, Jumps 5% earring and DD gear.

poidh

[Tsuko_Asura]

I think I found the optimum setup for Birds after an insane 34k/hr today.

DRK apoc
SAM soboro/Yoichi
BRD/NIN - pulling and minuets
BRD/COR - Ballad, Marches and SAM roll
COR/NIN - pulling, Joyuse, Chaos and COR roll.
RDM/DRG - Hasting, Dia, Curing, Joyuse, Jumps 5% earring and DD gear.

...

[Ghost_Wheel22]

Where does a KC RNG fit in best? Birds as /DRG?

[Tsuko_Asura]

I really think that would depend on the rest of your setup. As much as I detest /NIN in merits, KC RNG without a Yoichinoyumi or Annihilator may dry up reserves fairly quickly.

That's just speculatory, though. I've partied with zero good KC RNG.

[Ghost_Wheel22]

True. I'm a pretty scrub KC RNG that just dinged 75 today. Aside from one 3x KC RNG pt I've been pretty unimpressed with what it can do.

[Spider-Dan]

I've partied with KC RNG/WAR on birds (other DD was PLM SAM; i.e. good but not god-tier) and MP usage was totally reasonable. I was COR/DNC.

I guess KC RNG/WAR doesn't really take hits that much worse than SAM/WAR or WAR/SAM with zerk+hasso, when you think about about it.

If KC RNG is "unimpressive," particularly on birds, then you are doing it wrong. Never ever use /ra (not even Barrage), equip full haste+accuracy, use sushi if you need to.

[Ghost_Wheel22]

My biggest problem with /WAR is DA kicking in at all the wrong times enough to make me wonder if +haste% /DRG would be an acceptable trade for zerk/warcry. Really kind of moot though when mages shit bricks and tell me to /NIN onry when they see me

</3 Asura

[Tsuko_Asura]

I remember seeing a bit of number-crunching recently that supported the idea that /WAR was the ideal subjob, from a pure damage perspective. I want to say that it was in the Randomer Question thread? Iono.

[Shamaya]

Definitely,

Camp: Greater Colibri (upper); AKA Nyzul Isle (middle)
Minimum Setup: Brd + Cor
Other Jobs: Very flexible
Exp/hr: 35k/hr+, steady

ReasonThe idea here is that the total number of mobs within the camps realistic pulling radius times their average exp/kill is higher than any other camp. The important part, actually, is that the total amount of mobs pullable is higher than any other camp.

There are birds on middle (the standard fodder), but there are also birds on lower. There are wivres on middle, and there are wivres on lower. There are mamools on upper. All of these mobs are available within a very small pulling distance.

This does however somewhat require that there aren't other (good) parties on the other nyzul floors.

I wrote about this in this KI thread.

Cor is necessary because as you approach the kill limit on repops, corsair's roll becomes the most important element of your party.

It is also advisable that the Cor co-pull w/ the bard if the DD's are strong enough, to maximize the rate of mobs pulled and minimize the time in between pulls (preferably down to 0; that is, that as soon as a melee has killed a mob, they don't even need to move for their autotarget to begin hitting the next mob already at camp).


To somes' surprise, this is a very flexible setup. Quoting a need for sams, wars, relic holders, or even rdms is just nonsense. Burn parties can be very flexible.

Healers
This is a bit flexible but it also depends on if you bring along an outside haster (pl). This is not necessary at all. But if you do do this, then it allows you to effectively have a dnc or sch mainheal without sacrificing DPS from haste spell.

Advantages to Dnc mainheal: 1. haste samba (capped merits, 5/5), 2. they're your 'tank' / 1st 'voke' via their animated flourish. 3. an extra melee
Advantages to Sch mainheal: 1. aoe accession erase for wivre attack down is amazing. 2. aoe buffs
Advantages to Whm mainheal: 1. esuna. i haven't played very much since april, but I believe that this can work just like accession+erase, yeah? ; amazing for wivres. 2. very good mainstream healer, 3. yagrush+k.club melee and mystic boon for efficiency (hah, yeah right; well actually I've seen (heard) of this done, tho not with yagrush)
Advantages to Rdm mainheal: 1. dia 3, which is great for wivres, mamool ja lurkers, etc, 2. great mainstream healer
edit: Advantages to Drg mainheal: 1. angon, 2. an extra, solid DD (especially if well geared), ~3. mp efficient; (note: if non traditional, i've usually preferred dnc cuz of the haste samba and the 'voke' or sch or whm for aoe erase. still a decent option though)

Melee
Again, extremely flexible. There are many jobs capable of pushing the exp/hr (aka mob supply) limit. They just have to have top-of-the-line gear.

If you don't have any relic holders available, then you can try cheating the system and getting some rune chopper / haste belt war/sam with fulltime hasso, but this also requires a rdm for refresh as well as lots of healing. The DPS is amazing though. Similarly Sam/War or Sam/Drg with capped polearm merits and a great polearm and fulltime hasso can push the limits.

Piercing jobs are great. Mnk/War are great. Most melee are great. I've even heard of peaked rng doing well, as they can easily attack mobs that aren't yet at camp or are on another floor, but I've never seen it so...

Spam meat mithkabobs or the very cheap 13% accuracy sushi. Best buffs are usually double march and chaos/corsairs. Sometimes march/minuet. Sometimes hunters/corsairs.

[Yugl]

Healers

I see DNC, but no DRG? What gives?

[Ramzii]

I think 36k might be a generous overestimate of what you can cap on birds without doing wivre.

We cleared out both bottom and middle birds, and pulled about 5-6 mamool at a time, kills vary from 2sec (all 3 of us had tp) to about 20sec maximum

I know it seemed unreasonable, but all of our parses said the same exp per hour

[Wolfknight]

I see DNC, but no DRG? What gives?

he said:

Piercing jobs are great.

that would include drg.

[Yugl]

he said:

that would include drg.

Look at what I quoted.

[Shamaya]

It was sort of a mistake but actually, the reason: they offer no haste samba and no accession erase or esuna, making them inferior to dnc sch and whm even if there is an outside haster, probably. But it is hard to say... what if the drg is very good? that's a lot of extra DPS plus an angon, so I might as well include it, but usually I would not

edit:

I think 36k might be a generous overestimate of what you can cap on birds without doing wivre.

We cleared out both bottom and middle birds, and pulled about 5-6 mamool at a time, kills vary from 2sec (all 3 of us had tp) to about 20sec maximum

I know it seemed unreasonable, but all of our parses said the same exp per hour

I wholeheartedly agree with this; this sounds just like what I've experienced with about 3 of my best parties at mid birds. If you have a phenomenal party and the other floors aren't camped to shit, it is the mob supply that makes this the best camp. By phenomenal party you also need one or two very good pullers. I'm only skeptical of people who quote such consistent exp/hr when they don't have exp roll and/or wouldn't have had enough pull supply. I've had parties here where 15 seconds is definitely a long fight (relatively).

Wivres are usually a good idea with such party but aoe erases and things like coordinated angon/dia/feint/pennance etc ensure they go down a lot quicker.

I think 40k/hr+ is definitely possible here. Make the kills 15 seconds each and 0 downtime (the pull speed you're looking for) and you fight 20 mobs a respawn cycle (5 min). You can do that 12 times in an hour, or 240 mobs an hour.

200exp/mob w/ exp roll sounds a bit low, but let's say it is that. W/ that * 240 mobs/hr, that's 48k/hr.

Can you pull 20 mobs an hour? There are 10 birds at mid. It's easy to pull at least 5 birds from lower and (somewhat for) 5 mamools from upper (brd w/ IS chakram, or cor ranged), which makes 20. This doesn't include 3 pullable wivres at mid and pullable wivres at lower.

The problem is pulling speed. Step 1: Kill speed (great DD's); Step 2: Pull speed (2 great pullers). We want to have zero downtime if possible. This is what I was pushing for in the Cor forums thread I made (as a cor is basically needed for exp roll), but not many understood what I was trying to get at.

15 seconds a fight @200exp/mob, 0 downtime is 48k/hr
Add 15 seconds to avg downtime and you halve exp/hr, or 24k/hr, yuck
5 second downtime in between mobs, 36k/hr
10 second downtime in between mobs, 28.8k/hr

A lot of people don't realize just how important consistent lack of downtime can be, and the above may illustrate. As killspeed increases, downtime's contribution to decreased exp/hr literally increases exponentially. In peaked parties, even a 5 second wait in between mobs is far too long if it can be helped.