Optimum Merit Set Up

[Tsuko_Asura]

If your healer is competent and allows you to go /WAR, you should easily hold your own against most jobs.

As far as healers go, if you want to talk absolutely optimal(outside of free-standing healers outside of the party, of course), a good melee WHM/NIN should obliterate any Red Mage. Mystic Boon is broken. Additionally, the healer will always be in range of Demoralizing Roar, meaning Esuna can be used right off the bat.

[Drace]

WHM/SCH is fine, really only missing out on Dia 3 and a little better add control, but the primary reason is that for every 75 WHM there are probably 10 75 RDMs.

[Callisto]

WHM/SCH does in fact do very well if they know how to manage their MP, that's what we had in the stupidly good party I referenced earlier, will the melees all fulltiming Hasso on everything but Skoffins.

As far as MNK goes, me inviting MNKs ended the day I watched relatively normal(above average but not special) DRG destroy a relic/BB/everything but Usu MNK.

[Callisto]

Yeah MNK/WAR is probably different, I can't say I've ever seen one in merits that didn't play like a jackass and sponge MP to the point of fucking things up though.

[Wolfknight]

I don't see how middle MJSP can compete as a camp. Too many puks, not enough mamool.

North MJSP is better (only 2 puks) but:

a) you have to deal with Lurkers, which require you to drop some haste or attack for accuracy, slowing kill speed
b) when you start killing really fast, you have to fight wyverns, which use paralyze and dispel (not to mention Fang Rush) too often to be a desirable merit mob; dispel is particularly problematic for parties with CORs

At birds/wivres, I think the best party is probably:

RDM BRD BRD COR DD DD

with DDs broken down into three tiers...

tier 1- KC RNG, Soboro/Yoichi SAM
tier 2- PLM SAM, PLM WAR, (BB MNK/WAR?)
tier 3- Relic THF, elite DRG, elite RNG

agreed except bullshit drg is with polearm sam for sure, I've never lost to pole sam so far and good ones always tied or beaten them by small marginal[2~5%/wyvern's dmg].

[Tsuko_Asura]

Its the same as every other ideal situation. You need to have balanced DD. If the Monk is contributing 40% of the party's output, its doomed to fail.

[Callisto]

It's not so much about unbalancing as it is about not opening with AF .3 seconds into the fight when everyone else is at 30% TP, lol.

[Shin Volcano]

It's not so much about unbalancing as it is about not opening with AF .3 seconds into the fight when everyone else is at 30% TP, lol.

Since SAM is always the favorite choice, can't they just shiki (whatever the fuck that TP sharing JA is) the mnk? altho that is being a bit picky lol but it's bascialy telling people who don't have SAM, WAR, DRG, or DRK that you won't ever see an Optimal Merit pt.

Nevertheless....i don't know what can be done about MNK honestly, i guess when they gave MNK black belt, they figured it was just done?

[Zumi]

Fairly easy to get 30k an hour with, as long as DDs are well equipped
3 DD, 2 BRD, RDM

Must have middle bird camp with nobody in the lower camp so brds can pull from both camps.

[Callisto]

Since SAM is always the favorite choice, can't they just shiki (whatever the fuck that TP sharing JA is) the mnk? altho that is being a bit picky lol but it's bascialy telling people who don't have SAM, WAR, DRG, or DRK that you won't ever see an Optimal Merit pt.

In honesty it's probably true, but people can either bitch about it or level a bandwagon merit job to grind their points out so they can have their favorite job meritted for other things. Granted my job lineup is almost exclusively merit-whore jobs, if I was PLD main I wouldn't really complain about them not having a place in meripo so much as I'd level BRD to whore out for points to cap my PLD with.

[Khamsin]

Hahaha. Speaking of SMN burn...

Spoiler: show

Emphasis mine. Whoops =)

You're lucky I decided to make a joke instead of locking the thread.

I'm a little gun-shy about locking non-advanced threads at the moment, at least until the drama dies down a little. But I can tell you, this thread and the one about KA's HP probably wouldn't last long if they were made in another month or so.

Nor would "Items that never drop", but that kinda got grandfathered in.

Unless, of course, the thread included math or solid reasoning on an actual "optimal merit party setup", rather than just being "what's everyone's favorite setup?"

[Valisk]

power trippin

[Shin Volcano]

In honesty it's probably true, but people can either bitch about it or level a bandwagon merit job to grind their points out so they can have their favorite job meritted for other things. Granted my job lineup is almost exclusively merit-whore jobs, if I was PLD main I wouldn't really complain about them not having a place in meripo so much as I'd level BRD to whore out for points to cap my PLD with.

Well that's what i did lol, i got sick of seeking for hours and i decided to set aside my fear and level brd (fear because of thre sheer whoring of the job if it hit 75) which helped me cap out BLM fast, but every so often i do like to use a meele job and in this case MNk since RNG and nin are my only other meele and are even less disired in merit PTs ( i hate nin merit wise anyway) but it gets sad when the only way i can merit is to use brd, mainly wanting to know what is the biggest issue mnk has that it is over looked.

[Spider-Dan]

A lot of people still keep mentioning RDM; why?

WHM/SCH is just as good; Esuna is extremely useful on Wivres too, if it does Demoralizing Roar early enough.

WHM/SCH has no useful advantage over RDM; RDM has Dia3 (and potentially Gravity if you want to really get stupid) over WHM.

Esuna is essentially overkill; after Demoralizing Roar, healer and backup healer should be immediately erasing the two people with the most TP.

[Spider-Dan]

agreed except bullshit drg is with polearm sam for sure, I've never lost to pole sam so far and good ones always tied or beaten them by small marginal[2~5%/wyvern's dmg].

Sorry, I just don't see it. SAM has a massive TP advantage over DRG and will get 'zerk+2A.

I used to believe that DRG would beat SAM, but I can't see it happening.

[Callisto]

Sorry, I just don't see it. SAM has a massive TP advantage over DRG and will get 'zerk+2A.

I used to believe that DRG would beat SAM, but I can't see it happening.

I don't think that's so clear cut at all with DRG getting a minimum of 53 Acc and 8 base D naturally over a SAM/WAR and Jumps/Wyvern damage being taken into consideration.

[Tsuko_Asura]

WHM/SCH has no useful advantage over RDM; RDM has Dia3 (and potentially Gravity if you want to really get stupid) over WHM.

Esuna is essentially overkill; after Demoralizing Roar, healer and backup healer should be immediately erasing the two people with the most TP.

If your Red Mages are using Gravity on every Wivre, that's one thing, but the light melee that a proper WHM/NIN has to offer makes up for the lack of Dia III, and even if you have two people handling Erase(which isn't usually the case), it still has quite a recast. Esuna is quick, and rids everyone of the problem instantly.

[Shin Volcano]

WHM/SCH has no useful advantage over RDM; RDM has Dia3 (and potentially Gravity if you want to really get stupid) over WHM.

Esuna is essentially overkill; after Demoralizing Roar, healer and backup healer should be immediately erasing the two people with the most TP.

aren't you being a tad picky? whm and rdm share the same spells that are mostly used in merit pts, which are Cures,haste, erase, and raise if it's ever needed..only thing diffrent is the whm has to acttualy be good at there job and learn how to control there mp since they can't refresh and convert. nor does every rdm have/use dia 3, hell it really isn't even needed at some points. why gravity is needed ina merit pt also is beyond me, yes i know lurkers etc, again, still isn't needed as much as you think.

[Khamsin]

A lot of people still keep mentioning RDM; why?

WHM/SCH is just as good; Esuna is extremely useful on Wivres too, if it does Demoralizing Roar early enough.

WHM/SCH lacks Convert.

[Callisto]

Every time I try to Gravity a Lurker MF'ing Resist Gravity procs anyways.

Edit: I don't think I even use Convert at Birds if I'm getting Evoker's and a Ballad, and WHM's MP efficiency, especially as /SCH, makes up for a pretty fair amount.