Optimum Merit Set Up

[test123]

Q: BRD75/COR37, how potent is the roll?

[Callisto]

7% on a Lucky, not sure about 11. Probably not worth it unless the 2nd BRD is doing absolutely nothing in terms of backup healing.

[Tsuko_Asura]

And comparing it to a 10 min convert is silly, all the good RDMs have it at 6:40.

What game are you playing?

[Spider-Dan]

Sublimation is maybe 350-400 mp every 10 min, max. It's 2 mp/tick, minus the 30 sec between sublimations. You can't make it any higher.

And comparing it to a 10 min convert is silly, all the good RDMs have it at 6:40. During which time sublimation can only give you about 250 mp.

Furthermore, if you want to compare Sublimation to Convert (which Sublimation loses really badly) then you have nothing to compare to Refresh, much less Composure+Refresh.

[Wolfknight]

Sorry, I just don't see it. SAM has a massive TP advantage over DRG and will get 'zerk+2A.

I used to believe that DRG would beat SAM, but I can't see it happening.

you're really over valuing zerk, since sam needs an acc buff[food, hunter, or madrigal] while drg does fine without them, so more att or haste counters it, and tp advantage isn't that huge.
comes down to:
6 hit vs 5 hit: sam
jumps/med vs better mediate: even really
A+/Acc bonus II vs B-/DA: drg
Drakesbane vs Overwhelm penta: even
Wyvern/Better Polearms vs nothing: drg
So 20% more ws/zerk vs wyvern/56 acc/7~10 WD, and I've yet to see a sam beat me, and I am still missing some stuff for drg.

[Mojo]

For obvious reasons, the ideal set up would include at least a Bard and a Corsair. You're going to want Corsair's Roll too. Even without the 'perfect' merit party set up, it's possible to to be limited by the respawn rate of the mobs you're fighting, so aiming to maximize EXP per kill is best.

With that in mind, the party is looking like Bard, Corsair, three melee and a healer. I would argue that an ideal party would include at least one Dark Knight. It's a powerful melee job (especially with Apocalypse) and is needed to enhance Chaos Roll. It's difficult to say what you should fill the other melee spots with, although I think that Warrior/Samurai is probably the all around best.

The mage job is also not a clear choice. Some are fans of Summoner because they can administer Hastega and Fenrir buffs, although with 'ideal' melee, Fenrir is unnecessary. Summoner can't really bring much else to the table and is deprived of Cure IV, which I consider absolutely necessary if you want a stable party.

Red Mage is a solid choice because of Haste, Refresh, Convert, Dia III, Phalanx II (It helps things go a little bit smoother,) and good crowd control.

White Mage is another good choice. In addition to Haste and Dia II, Cure V is incredibly useful. A good White Mage should also have adequate MP generation to go on forever (People have pointed it out, there are a few ways to get this done.) Quickly removing status affects from the party is also crucial in some camps.

Ultimately, I would choose BRD WHM COR DRK WAR WAR. Optimal EXP would dictate that you received Corsair's Roll and Chaos Roll while optimal kill rate would entail Chaos Roll and Fighter's Roll.

[test123]

Was thinking of COR BRD BRD DRK(Apoc) SAM RDM
One BRD is /NIN pulling other is /cor, so thats 3 rolls, sam drk and cor with 4 songs. Cor can pull also.

edit: RDM/WAR, joyuse with all those buffs can be a nice backup DD for just bringing two DDs

[Tsuko_Asura]

Halving Corsair's Roll in favor of Samurai Roll is not the least bit optimal, you're better off with two Corsairs and one Bard.

[Shin Volcano]

Sublimation is maybe 350-400 mp every 10 min, max. It's 2 mp/tick, minus the 30 sec between sublimations. You can't make it any higher.

And comparing it to a 10 min convert is silly, all the good RDMs have it at 6:40. During which time sublimation can only give you about 250 mp.

So any rdm that dosnt put all there merits into convert timer isn't a "good" RDM? sorry, but id rather land my enfeebles more accuractly then shorten a timer and i normaly don't need 60% of the time.


and i'v had no down or at the very least very minimal as whm/sch, i have tried both rdm a nd whm, and whm still gives me the much more relaxed approach for the same or next to same exp per hour, i didn't know RDM needed to covert every single time that timer was up.

hell unless you are a solo only RDM, i don't even see a point of caping out convert merits.

it's good to find other optimal set ups as the jobs you may be looking for aren't always there for the picking.

[Tsuko_Asura]

I'd still like to know how I can merit my Convert recast two minutes lower than the cap.

[Mojo]

I'm not really a fan of Samurai Roll. It doesn't do anything to your weaponskill damage, so it's not as effective as it could be.

[Callisto]

I'm still iffy as to if relics should even come into the discussion, while the title does stress 'optimum', the OP is in terms of 'what job should I level next for merits?', which doesn't really imply easy access to Yoichi/Soboro SAMs and Apoc DRKs.

[Tsuko_Asura]

Its not necessarily that Samurai Roll isn't good, its just that Corsair's Roll is infinitely more important.

[Callisto]

I'd still like to know how I can merit my Convert recast two minutes lower than the cap.

Hah, I didn't even check the actual math on that previously.

[Seraph]

You're lucky I decided to make a joke instead of locking the thread.

I'm a little gun-shy about locking non-advanced threads at the moment, at least until the drama dies down a little. But I can tell you, this thread and the one about KA's HP probably wouldn't last long if they were made in another month or so.

I'm late with this, but what's wrong with the KA thread? That seems like a very Standard-ish topic, and the people have been pretty damn civil. There is even some useful information presented...

Seems quite unnecessary for a crack down?

[Spider-Dan]

Q: BRD75/COR37, how potent is the roll?

Which roll? I've never seen any figures for Corsair's Roll without COR in party, so I can't really give you numbers on that.

[Callisto]

So was there a typo, or was a mod trolling a thread in a forum specifically designed for non-trolled game discussion that is supposed to be strictly moderated?

[Khamsin]

Mine's at 9, I don't think MAcc merits should discount you from being a 'good' RDM, there are actually some mobs you may want to land debuffs on.

I have 5 m.acc merits, too. You can merit both.

I land debuffs consistently using a MND build on most mobs and HNMs. The only ones that take a few tries to land a good debuff on are Khim/Cerb. And I still use a MND build because I don't mind casting a couple times to land a good slow/para.

As for debuffs you need to land the first time (silence/grav/bind), that's why I meritted ice and wind acc.

Enfeebling skill (and by extension, m.acc applied to enfeebles) is kinda funny. With capped skill and proper gear, you're at a point where you can enfeeble anything that can be reasonably enfeebled easily, and the ones that are a bitch to enfeeble will always be a bitch. Putting 10 merits into m.acc instead of 5 won't make things any easier. It was either easy to debuff in the first place, or it was a bitch and it's still a bitch.

[test123]

Which roll? I've never seen any figures for Corsair's Roll without COR in party, so I can't really give you numbers on that.

If there is a COR and a BRD/COR in a PT, won't the BRDs cor roll be buffed by the COR in the PT who is himself doing SAM and DRK roll... just a thought.

[Callisto]

I have 5 m.acc merits, too. You can merit both.

I land debuffs consistently using a MND build on most mobs and HNMs. The only ones that take a few tries to land a good debuff on are Khim/Cerb. And I still use a MND build because I don't mind casting a couple times to land a good slow/para.

As for debuffs you need to land the first time (silence/grav/bind), that's why I meritted ice and wind acc.

Enfeebling skill (and by extension, m.acc applied to enfeebles) is kinda funny. With capped skill and proper gear, you're at a point where you can enfeeble anything that can be reasonably enfeebled easily, and the ones that are a bitch to enfeeble will always be a bitch. Putting 10 merits into m.acc instead of 5 won't make things any easier. It was either easy to debuff in the first place, or it was a bitch and it's still a bitch.

I don't disagree with this at all, and I have both Convert and MAcc merits(3 and 7 spread around, respectively), but we're still curious where you got 6:40, lol.