Religious broadcaster builds $4M home despite layoffs at his ministry

[EternityEnd]

Says kuronosan. 10/10. This relates to anything, how? It seems you have something against the English language, not me.

[kuronosan]

You're either trolling or you're more retarded than Vajra. I won't waste any energy trying to figure it out. I'll just go with "absolute fucking moron".

[Correction]

EternityEnd argues like Angelkitty.

[EternityEnd]

I forgot where rationals such as yourself use logic like 'if neither of us provides evidence then I MUST BE RIGHT!' At least I'm providing anectodal evidence. I'm not seeing your world of teeming hordes of rampaging christians enslaving blacks, women and gays.

Slavery never happened in the widely Puritan US guys. Never.

What part of my quote about atheists not being irrational fucktards with hate towards gays/races/women wasn't anecdotal?

When did I say gays and women were enslaved? Though, really, one could argue women were as good as enslaved with the gender roles of the early US widely purported by said religious background.

When did anecdotal evidence become accepted in a debate on facts?

[Tsuko_Asura]

Pray tell...

I see what you did there.

[Correction]

Slavery never happened in the widely Puritan US guys. Never.

What part of my quote about atheists not being irrational fucktards wasn't anecdotal?

When did I say gays and women were enslaved? Though, really, one could argue women were as good as enslaved with the gender roles of the early US widely purported by said religious background.

When did anecdotal evidence become accepted in a debate on facts?

I didn't ask you to provide evidence that slavery, misogyny and discrimination of gays had religious roots. I'm asking you to provide evidence that the overwhelming majority of christians prefer the world this way.

[EternityEnd]

I didn't ask you to provide evidence that slavery, misogyny and discrimination of gays had religious roots. I'm asking you to provide evidence that the overwhelming majority of christians prefer the world this way.

I quoted the Bible. Do christians not follow it anymore?

[Correction]

I quoted the Bible. Do christians not follow it anymore?

According to you, no. And bible quotations do not prove ample substitute for statistical studies.

[EternityEnd]

According to you, no. And bible quotations do not prove ample substitute for statistical studies.

So according to you, the vast majority of christians don't follow the Bible, and quoting the Bible is not sufficient when arguing what Christians believe.

uhhhhhhhhhh

[kuronosan]

According to you, no. And bible quotations do not prove ample substitute for statistical studies.

Just quit responding to him. It's evident he isn't trying to be logical.

[Akucaen]

Guys, as a devote christian, the bible cannot be used against me in a religious debate. It's not nice.

[EternityEnd]

Apparently usage of Bible quotes is forbidden when arguing religion, and usage of them nets you -9001 logic points.

[Akucaen]

Just quit responding to him. It's evident he isn't trying to be logical.

Wait, seriously? He's using clear and concise logic, then backing up his argument with your own holy word.

[Tsuko_Asura]

Just quit responding to him. It's evident he isn't trying to be logical.

At what point did religion start giving a damn about logic or its absence?

[Kryssan]

Oh boy another religion debate. Never saw it coming, really.



Normally I don't toss in with these but, hey, what the hell. No pun intended. Honest.





I personally feel that it is absolutely ok to believe in whatever and whoever you choose. Having faith and belief in something, be at a higher power or that you are capable of accomplishing a task, is the fundamental aspect in generating success. If you do not believe in something, you will never achieve the goal or the ideal you're seeking (idea vs ideal being a whole 'nother arguement/debate in and of itself).


However, when that faith, when that belief, becomes an indoctrinated mantra, or a religion, or what have you, it ceases to be a personal tool for developing success and becomes a crowd control tool. Religion, in and of itself, is merely fluidic government. It doesn't have the rigidity of black and white law, because the reader can interpret it any way they choose that best suits whatever methodology of control they're trying to implement. There isn't exactly a 'checks and balances' system to religion, in order to keep interpretation of the 'law' to a minimum, unless you want to consider who is and who is not able to keep a group of followers as such. It is in this environment that person becomes people and people, sad to say, are sheep. And depending on who's currently driving the flock its either headed off a cliff to fall to its death or into the sea to drown.



This whole argument really comes down to a debate between who is able to think and rationalize for themselves just what it is they have belief and/or faith in, regardless of what they choose, and those who let others choose for them.

[kuronosan]

Wait, seriously? He's using clear and concise logic, then backing up his argument with your own holy word.

You fail for assuming I'm Christian.

[Correction]

So according to you, the vast majority of christians don't follow the Bible, and quoting the Bible is not sufficient when arguing what Christians believe.

uhhhhhhhhhh

Wow I said that the vast majority of christians don't follow the bible?

Wait, no I didn't.

Your logic: The bible is racist! Look at leviticus and ignore all the teachings of Jesus! Therefore the christians who follow the bible according to me are racist woman-hating gaybashers! Since all christians follow the bible verbatim, that makes them all racist woman-hating gaybashers! I can prove it all with three quotations from leviticus and by ignoring the entire second half of the bible!

I'm going to stop asking you if you see how bad your logic is. You're the Eric Cartman of "I won that argument!"

[Alleya]

Humans make mistakes. We hurt people. We say things that hurt when we argue. We have fights. We lie, we put people down, we ignore people that need our help. It just happens. We have control over it, but that doesn't mean we're always capable of controlling it, or making flawless decisions.

The entire point of Jesus is to teach that it's ok. That we can be human, we can make mistakes, and we can be forgiven, as well as forgive others.

This is just an interpretation of the story. You can make the life of Stalin into a positive moral allegory if you try hard enough. I think my reading of the story is much more accurate than yours from a biblical standpoint.

Furthermore, you can teach your children that it's OK to make mistakes without telling them a story about gruesome murder.

First off, says who? I'm pretty damn certain, no, I'm 100% positive, that the vast majority of people in America who consider themselves Christian are not literal interpreters of the bible, and really use it as very little more than examples. I dunno about you, but I live in Kansas. I see what it looks like when people are even close to what you're talking about, and it is by *far* the minority in the U.S.

Obviously I don't know you. And you don't know me. It could be that I've had a lot more experience with people of varying faiths and varying convictions, and that the pull of your religious affiliation keeps you running in a circle of like-minded people. I don't know. I run into people like you occasionally, but it's nowhere near a majority. Generally people only make the allegory argument when their supernatural beliefs are refuted by science, or they retreat to the fallback position of "I just believe". It's rare that I run into someone who accepts that the bible is fiction from the get go, even if they have reason to believe they can best me with the same tired fallacies.

As soon as someone comes back from the dead to tell us about what happens then, and can back it up with factual proof, we can start discussing the afterlife in factual scenarios.

Soo...you admit you hold completely irrational beliefs with no basis in reality, and you believe that this a way to be a good person?

The origins of the universe we're getting a lot closer on... but then there's the question of where did whatever that originated from originated from, etc., just as there are the infinite questions of if there's a God, where did it come from, etc.

There are extremely, extremely strong arguments about why the probability that god exists is as near as can be to zero, even with the origin of the origin, so to speak, being "unknown."

These entire ideas of begging and end are not rational in the first place-- but just ask Mr. Physicist, sometimes we have to consider and deal with irrational concepts.

Don't confuse counter-intuitive with irrational. Irrational would be believing in quantum mechanics just because you think it helps you be a better person, rather than the fact that it is ridiculously accurate in its predictions.

Right, but would you disagree that the most important part of a philosophy, whether religious or not, is the practical effect of it? What the real effects of following a religion or another way of life are? I think this is the important difference between us: I'm trying not to project my own values and instead am trying to just let what works for individuals work. The only values of mine that I consider to be necessarily universal is that such philosophies should lead somebody to personal happiness, promote compassion, and relieve suffering as best as possible. It's how I keep myself honest about others' views and try to refine my own.

You are right about the difference between us. I cannot accept a system of belief that leads to murder, deceit, ignorance, and exploitation almost as a matter of course. I have too much compassion for others than to allow them to be mistreated in this way just because they derive some kind of "comfort" from it. I do not accept the idea that I have to live and let be as people try to shove their beliefs down my throat either with good intentions or under threat of violence because of their irrational fear of the supernatural. The fact that some good takes place under its banner, when that good would take place anyway without it, does not convince me that relativism is the correct response.

[EternityEnd]

Leviticus has nothing to do with race, nor did I quote it in regards to race. Learn 2 Bible.

And, if Christians don't follow the Bible and believe what it says.... They aren't Christian.

[Correction]

Leviticus has nothing to do with race, nor did I quote it in regards to race. Learn 2 Bible.

And, if Christians don't follow the Bible and believe what it says.... They aren't Christian.

You didn't quote anything to support the 'bible is racist' bit. Your logic is in all kinds of shambles.