Religious broadcaster builds $4M home despite layoffs at his ministry

[zoobernut]

But if theistic belief is the catalyst for religious action, wouldnt you then be against theism as well Zoober?

Kinda like saying "I dont mind gay people, I just dont like gay sex". Gay people will have gay sex, theistic people will act according to their theistic beliefs.

You cant realy seperate theism from theistic decision making and lifestyles (otherwise known as religion). The only thing you can really seperate is theism and "formal" religions, which just forces people to go back to smaller organizations and local cults.

Not necessarily. I know anecdotal evidence is not the best way to debate this sort of thing but I have several family members who either believe in a higher power or are open to the existence to one and outright speak against organized religion. I was always taught growing up that it is ok to be spiritual but that has no connection to having to worship or having to behave a certain way to appease whatever does exist outside of our understanding.

[bigrougabagel]

so, my post got thrown out, here it is

I believe the heart of this argument is right around the line of what science currently can and cannot explain. But, for someone to put god into the places that cannot be explained is a pretty shitty place for a god to be. God of the gaps, is how i have heard it described. As people continually explain more and more, there are fewer places for god to hide. If there is a god, i sure as hell hope he isnt jumping from place to place right before some scientist lifts the veil and goes "AHA!!! .... dammit, where is he?"

My basis in science and theology is about as good as my basis in whiskey and chicken wings. They are both something i love, but im by no means a master distiller or chef. One of the basic ideas where i place my belief in a god, higher power, je ne sais quoi, is thru ocham's razor(i hate spelling). The simplest explanation tends to be the correct one. This may seem kind of backwards considering how it is usually applied to this debate. What is simpler, something or nothing. Imo, nothing is a much simpler state than something. So, why is there anything at all? Considering a rational and logical cosmos, I think that non-existence is easier. Of course my basis for the logic of non-existence is based in my existence so, thats probably a moot point.

Our universe, our entire experience and the way we classify events is through cause and effect. For the big bang to occur, something had to happen. That something is what makes the LHC so interesting, the fact that we could possibly learn what happened moments after the universe as we know it came into being. When we do learn this, it only causes more questions. What caused that, and then before that, and before that...infinite.

I am not saying that i have any better explanation other than "idk". And i believe science is the tool that will lead us to the greatest understanding of the universe. I doubt tho, that even the greatest of scientific minds can continue to innovate, to infinite.

[Neosutra]

Plow has been using the "god of gaps" argument for the last 5 religious debates, and he seems content to stick with it.

As for humanity continuing to innovate to infinity, I dont think that is really required. The universe may infact be infinite, but it may also be quantifiable. So there is a possibility that we will indeed one day "understand it all". That day is probably very far off, and we may kill ourselves before that time comes, but I still believe it may be possible.

[bigrougabagel]

I agree that it may be possible and I hope it is. For me personally, the journey to the goal is greater than the goal itself (LOLRELIC). That is just a personal philosophy that i apply to about everything. Working to learn about any one thing, especially as something as complex and involved as physics, theology, philosophy really opens a lot of different neural pathways.

We need to devote all the effort here to creating a von neuman probe...

Self-replicating spacecraft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

if we have any hope of continuing our exploration and understanding of the universe.

[Khamsin]

That so many things about existence coincide to allow it to be, such as that, seems pretty miraculous to me. Thinking about things like that sure as hell make me feel lucky to be here. Delicious pun intended.

Well, there is that school of thought about the universe that everything happens to work out just right because, if it didn't, we wouldn't be here to notice. So naturally, in any universe where we can exist to notice these things, these things must be as they are.

If there are multiple universes, it's quite possible 99.9% of them have no matter or energy or life or time, or things are so completely different that these concepts are inapplicable. Maybe there's a universe out there that's just a sea of gluons and quarks and whatever the hell the smallest fundamental particle that makes up other stuff is.

[Plow]

Are you suggesting we place magic as the cause for all sub atomic attraction Plow? Because that is what you are implying. "there are areas of physics we don't understand so it must be god!". And again, what is your area of expertise? Genuinly curious. And please, dont get insulted when I call you out on your woefully inadequate knowledge of ACTUAL science, after you actually tried to say you were more qualified in that area. Sorry to break it to you Plow, but you being a sophmore in socialogy doesnt make you "quantitatively equal or superior" to a phd in physics, in -any- field of science. Hell I probably know more about even your degree than you do.

edit, to answer the question: psych and poli sci, how do you forget these things, are you higher than me or what?

First of all, you haven't the slightest clue how smart I am.

Note how you can't even spell shit in your own field, and I can take 5 minutes and be capable of explaining seriously intricate shit in your field?

Do I know exactly what a meson is? Well, actually, yeah, pretty much. Do I know exactly what a quark is? Not really, to be quite honest, but I can explain its function and role pretty damn well. If I really wanted to, I could take 15 minutes to research and explain it quite thoroughly.

Just so you know, I got my high school diploma when I was 16, and started college in mechanical engineering at 17. I then got my girlfriend pregnant, took couple years off dealing with that (she was batshit, to say the least), and came back with a pretty entirely different world view, and idea of what I wanted to accomplish.

You have no grasp of how quickly I can learn things. If you'd like to challenge me, give me a concept on some of these topics you're claiming I don't understand and am calling "God" instead of trying to understand, which you're absolutely certain I've never done any research of any sort on-- I'll come back in an hour and explain it *BETTER* than you can.

I can do it better than you personally, because not only do I have absolutely no doubts that I am far from being the inferior one in terms of raw intelligence, I also actually have the ability to communicate effectively.

Bolded because that's a challenge, you see, I'm not the type to throw out accusations and claims I'm not confident I can support.

The fact remains I shouldnt even be arguing with you, as you arent really qualified to even debate here, and all I get out of it is arguing with a fool (which is foolish of me). One of the greatest and worst side effects of the internet is everyone is on an equal footing. Backgrounds really mean nothing because a person like you can just hit reply 20 times and amplify their point, regardless of validity, over and over. Hence you get debates like this, where the Plow's of the world can come in and attempt to go 1 on 1 with people that are usually teaching their classes, instead of sitting in a chair and listening, like they should be doing.

The fact that you, as a physics major, are sitting here complaining about how you should be teaching people that dedicate their lives to studying society and human thought/emotion, about philosophy, just says more than I could ever say.

No, wait, I can say it perfectly-- you are an incredible self-obsessed douchebag.

I'm not sitting here telling you you should learn physics from me, I'm not that damn stupid.

I will call you out on your attempts to belittle anyone's intelligence because they believe differently than you in a heartbeat, and I will prove to you that I am more capable than you ever would have believed without it.

And the arguement that people should accept any wild hypothesis suggested (aka god), simply due to the fact that we havent nailed down the standard model for particle physics yet, is pretty archaic and sophmoric. You really need to move onto a better argument.

You're the only one here suggesting anyone "accept" a certain hypothesis-- that there's no form of God. Firas hasn't posted in this thread. I'm still arguing your assertion that "people should never be religious and are stupid and evil if they are."


I can't find the damn post for the life of me, but you literally asked a few weeks ago "where are the physicists that see 'God' in the patterns and occurrences that allow matter to exist," I just literally gave you that, and you just try to brush it off as "explaining things we can't understand as being God," in response to me literally showing that I do in fact understand it quite well.


Really, when arguing directly to your sensibilities results in senseless trash in response from you, there's something pretty seriously wrong here.

[Plow]

Plow has been using the "god of gaps" argument for the last 5 religious debates, and he seems content to stick with it.

I literally fucking explained a process I see as miraculous, despite understanding it perfectly.

This is like... people use the term "pull your head out of your ass" way too often, I never realized how incredibly accurate it really is with some people.

[Kuya]

Religious people = casuals.

There, i said it.

[Neosutra]

First of all, you haven't the slightest clue how smart I am.
.

Nope, but I have a pretty good clue how dumb you are:

What holds atoms together?

When I said miracles, I actually meant "any nice thing that happens"

All of the subatomic forces actually exist solely so atoms can form, which proves there is a god, it cant just be coincidence. Im totally not missing the point that higher particles are just a composite set of smaller particles and have no relation to predestined causality!

It's quite a miracle to me that the universe even functions

I don't feel it irrational at all to believe we don't just cease to exist when our bodies die. Even though there is no evidence to support this theory, or even to suggest it is the case. And even though everything we currently know about life and thought tells us this concept is wrong.

Atheists are just mad at their parents.

I'm not a homophobe, I just hate gays.

the world uses threats to teach people to be good, so it is ok for religion to do this too.

I dont even have to reference your other threads, your beliefs in spirits and ghosts, your continued "god of the gaps" and "no true scottsman" arguements that you alter between each time someone shows your current arguement for a sham.

And here is the big one Plow:

15 minutes on google isnt the same as Research. I know as a poli-psy major you really dont know the difference, so Ill let that sink in. You're view on hard science and belief that ACTUAL scientists dont understand psycology and human thought/behavior is astoundingly sophmoric. Im sorry they didnt teach you just how easy your degree is yet =/.

You know what they call Poli-Psy classes in hard science degrees? Electives.

Smart move getting your girlfriend pregnant too dude. You are a virtual Einstien.

[Kuya]

Kinda like saying "I dont mind gay people, I just dont like gay sex". Gay people will have gay sex,

LOL

[Plow]

First off, I would just like to point out that you have officially been "put in your place" as a "scientist" by someone you accuse of being religious.

I gave you a direct challenge in response to your intelligence claims, you changed the subject.


I'll get to the trash you did post in a minute.

[meson]

Do I know exactly what a meson is?

Sup.

[Blarg]

Albert Einstein was given the option to be born in the same year as plow but he turned it down because of how incredibly overshadowed he would be by plow's perfection at everything he ever did.

[Neosutra]

Wait, did you even read my last post before claiming "putting me in my place".

And what exactly do you want lol? Pick a topic and see how fast you can google the result and quote someone else's work?

Google != understanding and it sure as hell doesnt equal research. You really are the dumbest person I have ever met.

The sheer fact that you think any area of science (especially particle physics) is so trivially easy shows just how LITTLE you know about any of these fields.

You dont even understand how stupid you sound saying this.

Plow: "I AM AN EXPERT IN EVERYTHING, I DARE YOU, PICK A SUBJECT AND ILL QUOTE A BETTER SOURCE!! "

Maybe you should have pulled out of your GFs nasty vag, aye genius?

[Neosutra]

What, no snappy comeback?

No "I can google things in 15 min and that equates to a doctorate in anything and any amount of years experience".

No "I couldnt make it as an engineer, so I swapped to poli-psyc"?

Im dissapointed =/

[Plow]

Secondly, don't fucking make up shit and type it as a quote from me, that's just beyond being a complete piece of shit.

Nope, but I have a pretty good clue how dumb you are:

a bunch of fucking bullshit I didn't stay attempted to be portrayed as direct quotes from me because you're a massive fucking douchebag

oh, and one thing I said as a complete sarcastic and extremely obvious joke thrown in because you just had to add in a little extra douchebaggery

I dont even have to reference your other threads, your beliefs in spirits and ghosts

You're literally just making shit up now? Come the fuck on.

your continued "god of the gaps"

Again, I gave you a perfect example of a concept I understand perfectly and still see as miraculous.

and "no true scottsman" arguements

I have never made the claim that anyone is or is not a Christian based on what they believe (beyond the derp derp qualification "do they believe in Christ"), or how they act.

There is a massive fucking difference between "they're doing something wrong" and "they're doing something wrong, therefore they're not Christians."

I have never implied an argument that being a Christian means you'll be a perfect person, and if you're not, you're not a true Christian.

For the I don't even know how many "eth" time, learn what the terms you're attempting to use actually mean before you try them out.

that you alter between each time someone shows your current arguement for a sham.

The only person trying to alter my claims here is you.

And here is the big one Plow:

15 minutes on google isnt the same as Research.

Oh, I see, *researching* things using readily available resources is not research.


Perhaps it's you who's too dumb to realize the difference between the extremely broad concept of research and the scientific method of experimentation.

Actually, no perhaps, that's definitely it.

I know as a poli-psy major you really dont know the difference, so Ill let that sink in. You're view on hard science and belief that ACTUAL scientists dont understand psycology and human thought/behavior is astoundingly sophmoric. Im sorry they didnt teach you just how easy your degree is yet =/.

You know what they call Poli-Psy classes in hard science degrees? Electives.

Enjoy basking in your knowledge that people with exponentially more learning capability than you'll ever grasp are choosing the "easy" sciences, and how you're such a better person for building missiles than people that choose to try to help people overcome their mental difficulties.

[Plow]

Wait, did you even read my last post before claiming "putting me in my place".

And what exactly do you want lol? Pick a topic and see how fast you can google the result and quote someone else's work?

Google != understanding and it sure as hell doesnt equal research. You really are the dumbest person I have ever met.

The sheer fact that you think any area of science (especially particle physics) is so trivially easy shows just how LITTLE you know about any of these fields.

You dont even understand how stupid you sound saying this.

Plow: "I AM AN EXPERT IN EVERYTHING, I DARE YOU, PICK A SUBJECT AND ILL QUOTE A BETTER SOURCE!! "

Maybe you should have pulled out of your GFs nasty vag, aye genius?

I offered to *demonstrate understanding.*

If you cannot grasp the difference between quoting something and understanding concepts, I don't know how you managed to learn a language.

Oh, wait a second...

[Neosutra]

Enjoy basking in your knowledge that people with exponentially more learning capability than you'll ever grasp are choosing the "easy" sciences, and how you're such a better person for building missiles than people that choose to try to help people overcome their mental difficulties.

I dont have a problem with the "easy sciences", I have a problem with a sophmore in a soft science field stating he has a fundamental expertise in particle physics because he possesses Google. You didnt just offer to "demonstrate understanding", you stated you would display a greater knowledge and depth of -any- subject given lol. Am I am the conceeded asshole? Nice one champ.

And I would start with your own mental difficulty before I worried about others.

Additionally, if/when a missile attack does happen on America, thank me for your missile defense system.

[Plow]

I dont have a problem with the "easy sciences", I have a problem with a sophmore in a soft science field stating he has a fundamental expertise in particle physics because he possesses Google.

Good thing that's not even remotely close to what I said.

You didnt just offer to "demonstrate understanding", you stated you would display a greater knowledge and depth of -any- subject given lol. Am I am the conceeded asshole? Nice one champ.

I am offering you the chance to test my intelligence. Intelligence is nothing if not the capability to learn. I am not claiming to be an expert, or to display a greater knowledge and depth. I simply said that I am *capable* of understanding it well enough to explain it better than you can, because you can't communicate worth a shit.

Seriously, dude, if this is such a ridiculous thing for me to claim, why have you spent half a page trying to argue that it's silly rather than calling me out on my "bullshit" like I called you out on yours?

I'm straight up saying, if you want to challenge my intelligence, test me.

You're straight up backing out like a bitch.


How does it feel to be Fred Phelps telling an interviewer he's an asshole and not going to get any more response because his statement is stupid when he actually gets called out?

And I would start with your own mental difficulty before I worried about others.

You've really never heard the jokes about how social scientists think they can solve everyone's problems but their own?

Additionally, if/when a missile attack does happen on America, thank me for your missile defense system.

I'm honestly sorry, that was dirty.




Seriously, though, I figured you'd at least come back with some ridiculous equation that would take hours to understand each little individual part before I could even begin to put it together, this is just depressing.

[kuronosan]

It's times like this I'm glad I'm a microbiology and genetics major and not physics.

Fuck quarks and mesons. I'll stick with virions and microbes thank you very much.