Religious broadcaster builds $4M home despite layoffs at his ministry

[kuronosan]

why? homosexuality is still not yet confirmed according to science..

Are you kidding me? Do you know anything about genetics? Homosexuality is what occurs when the chemical messengers in the brain are switched around and somebody simply finds themselves no longer attracted to the opposite sex; instead they are attracted to the same sex. It can also occur naturally, through process of thought, which makes it both psychological and physiological.

It is hardly a disease, considering there is no gene for "homosexuality" that mutates or even exists.

Quit basking in your own ignorance. Homosexuality is a natural occurrence, much like everything else in the world. People rarely choose their sexuality, and in the event they did, they were more than likely predisposed to that particular behavior.

Everyone has gay thoughts. Some people act on them. It's not fair to condemn someone who was born the way they were or made the choice they made. That's what my biggest disagreement with almost every religion is. Let's love everyone! Well, everyone except for the people who don't do what we say. Then we'll condemn that group and say that they're going to hell because they're doing something different.

I'm not in favor of terrorists, but that's just fucking stupid.

Edit: By the way Firas, mill on this for a while - If homosexuality were the way that people could naturally reproduce (some species do) would heterosexuality be the sin? Wonderful conundrum ain't it?

I bet you're one of those guys who thinks only humans go to heaven. What little you know about physiology.

What a fucking joke.

[EternityEnd]

hey, im a real person^_^ look at my avatar, thats me.
and to me, homosexuality is a sickness; but i still hold my tongue (often).
they are both groups they both have standards, and they both get insulted when bashed

You're a fucking idiot. If homosexuality is such a sickness, can I go to the doctor and get prescriptions for expensive pain killers? Because that would be awesome.

And yes, you're a real person. Unfortunately, that is quite evident. However, religion is not a real person, thus cannot be defended as such. You chose to be religious, no one chooses to be homosexual(or heterosexual), as evidenced above.

[Maxxthepenguin]

So if I say I believe I have a diamond the size of a refrigerator buried in my backyard, and that digging in attempt to find this diamond brings my family together; that this belief gives me consolation, especially during hard times; that this belief brings meaning to my life; that I wouldn't want to live in a universe in which there wasn't a diamond the size of a refrigerator buried in my backyard - you would still not be the least bit inclined to completely cease to respect or take any of my beliefs seriously in an adult discussion from this moment forward?

Actually, no. Because I'm not a douche and the existance of the diamond has no impact on, well, anything, so who cares?

[Neosutra]

Actually, no. Because I'm not a douche and the existance of the diamond has no impact on, well, anything, so who cares?

And we are back to the "my religious belief has no effect on anyone" arguement. That would only be true if you didnt live in a democracy, or base ANY decisions in your life that effect other people (and most human decisions effect other people in one way or another)based on that belief. Or are you telling me that most christians in america dont vote according to their faith?

[kuronosan]

So if I say I believe I have a diamond the size of a refrigerator buried in my backyard, and that digging in attempt to find this diamond brings my family together; that this belief gives me consolation, especially during hard times; that this belief brings meaning to my life; that I wouldn't want to live in a universe in which there wasn't a diamond the size of a refrigerator buried in my backyard - you would still not be the least bit inclined to completely cease to respect or take any of my beliefs seriously in an adult discussion from this moment forward?

I might, except you're not compensating for the family members who are pissed there was no diamond when you were done digging, regardless of how close you were brought together. You're also not counting the family members who would kill each other because they want the diamond to themselves, or are afraid of what finding the diamond might do. You're also ignoring the family members who are dissatisfied when they find the diamond is smaller than you believed or when it's discovered to be a sapphire instead. Don't forget about the family members who don't want to even try and dig in the first place and are just content to believe there's a diamond there - and not to mention they want to do everything possible to keep you from digging for it lest you prove it really is there or really isn't.

Religion and Social structures are so complicated that you better do better than "religion is like diamonds the sizes of fridges buried in your yard".

edit: wait... I think I wooshed myself.

... yep.

[zoobernut]

Actually, no. Because I'm not a douche and the existance of the diamond has no impact on, well, anything, so who cares?

I agree with you. However if we were going to make this a real world situation then he would be at best actively trying to convince others that the imaginary diamond behind his house existed, and in worst case killing and torturing anyone who did not believe with him that there was the diamond buried behind his house.

In a perfect world where people believed what they believed and allowed others to believe whatever they believed and each others beliefs (or religions) had no impact on each other then organized religion would be fine and work.

In the not-so-perfect world called reality organized religions are constantly at odds with each other and lead to violence and hatred and prejudice. Now I am not saying that these things don't happen without religion, I am not saying they are religions fault, however it is undeniable that religion is the catalyst for many wars and many acts of genocide throughout history and if humans cannot play with this toy nicely then the toy is unnecessary.

[Maxxthepenguin]

And we are back to the "my religious belief has no effect on anyone" arguement. That would only be true if you didnt live in a democracy, or base ANY decisions in your life that effect other people (and most human decisions effect other people in one way or another)based on that belief. Or are you telling me that most christians in america dont vote according to their faith?

That's not what I said. I said whether the diamond is real doesn't really matter if what they are doing because they believe is having positive effects on people.

And I consider Christians who vote for national policy based on their faith to be wrong because they are then imposing on the people who don't believe in the same things as them. I'm anti-imposing.

[zoobernut]

How can you be anti-imposing and ok with the idea of organized religion? Organized religion by design is imposing, otherwise its followers are not being good followers.

[Faris]

allow me to react like you;

fuck you and your study, its made in the U.S only, you can shove it up your ass.

you guys have the weakest base of beliefs, your fucking society creates shit like Scientology, the killer freedom, kids shooting in schools and sorry Christians but Christianity is a very weak religion.

hey and weren't you the guys who said don't base your judgement on what the masses follow?

weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiirr rrrrrrrrrd

Muslim astronomers were the first to establish observatories, like the one built at Mugharah by Hulagu, the son of Genghis Khan, in Persia, and they invented instruments such as the quadrant and astrolabe, which led to advances not only in astronomy but in oceanic navigation, contributing to the European age of exploration.

Among the most famous names in the field of geography, even in the West, are Ibn Khaldun and Ibn Batuta, renowned for their written accounts of their extensive explorations. In 1166, Al-Idrisi, the well-known Muslim scholar who served the Sicilian court, produced very accurate maps, including a world map with all the continents and their mountains, rivers and famous cities. Al-Muqdishi was the first geographer to produce accurate maps in color. It was, moreover, with the help of Muslim navigators and their inventions that Magellan was able to traverse the Cape of Good Hope, and Da Gama and Columbus had Muslim navigators on board their ships.

Seeking knowledge is obligatory in Islam for every Muslim, man and woman. The main sources of Islam, the Qur'an and the Sunnah (Prophet Muhammad's traditions), encourage Muslims to seek knowledge and be scholars, since this is the best way for people to know Allah (God), to appreciate His wondrous creations and be thankful for them. Muslims were therefore eager to seek knowledge, both religious and secular, and within a few years of Muhammad's mission, a great civilization sprang up and flourished. The outcome is shown in the spread of Islamic universities; Al-Zaytunah in Tunis, and Al-Azhar in Cairo go back more than 1,000 years and are the oldest existing universities in the world. Indeed, they were the models for the first European universities, such as Bologna, Heidelberg, and the Sorbonne. Even the familiar academic cap and gown originated at Al-Azhar University.

The first great Muslim mathematician, Al-Khawarizmi, invented the subject of algebra (al-Jabr), which was further developed by others, most notably Umar Khayyam. Al-Khawarizmi's work, in Latin translation, brought the Arabic numerals along with the mathematics to Europe, through Spain. The word "algorithm" is derived from his name.

Muslim mathematicians excelled also in geometry, as can be seen in their graphic arts, and it was the great Al-Biruni (who excelled also in the fields of natural history, even geology and mineralogy) who established trigonometry as a distinct branch of mathematics. Other Muslim mathematicians made significant progress in number theory.

"We (Allah) will show you (mankind) Our signs/patterns in the horizons/universe and in yourselves until you are convinced that the revelation is the truth." [Qur'an, 14:53]

[Maxxthepenguin]

How can you be anti-imposing and ok with the idea of organized religion? Organized religion by design is imposing, otherwise its followers are not being good followers.

No, you're thinking of the annoying parts of certain religions, but nice try!

When they impose I tell them to kindly shut up.

[zoobernut]

Name one major religion that does not have preaching its message and trying to convert new followers as part of its major mission.

If I am thinking of only certain religions then which ones? And it doesn't matter if that is only a part of those religions if it is such a big part that they spend billions of dollars on advertising and send out missionaries and work on it constantly.

[Maxxthepenguin]

Name one major religion that does not have preaching its message and trying to convert new followers as part of its major mission.

If I am thinking of only certain religions then which ones? And it doesn't matter if that is only a part of those religions if it is such a big part that they spend billions of dollars on advertising and send out missionaries and work on it constantly.

Judaism you uneducated fuck. There are arguments about whether to let any new people into the Jewish faith, but of course you don't know that.

You're thinking of protestants of various colors and catholicism.

[zoobernut]

Judaism you uneducated fuck. There are arguments about whether to let any new people into the Jewish faith, but of course you don't know that.

You're thinking of protestants of various colors and catholicism.

Most of my family is Jewish, I do know that. I should have been more clear in what I said. Way to take what was a regular conversation and spoil it because you have a short temper. This thread just poisons people.

My point still stands though that spreading the word is a very large part of a lot of religions out there and I find that your previous statement was at odds with it.

Does this mean you are only ok with the religions that do not preach this?

[Faris]

Name one major religion that does not have preaching its message and trying to convert new followers as part of its major mission.

If I am thinking of only certain religions then which ones? And it doesn't matter if that is only a part of those religions if it is such a big part that they spend billions of dollars on advertising and send out missionaries and work on it constantly.

you guys are doing the same fucking thing..its when a group believes they are right, they start spreading the word, nothing wrong with it, but the aggressive way you guys do it..

eternityend go choke on a dick plz, you misunderstood what im trying to say

[zoobernut]

What the hell? I said nothing about you or your beliefs or me being prejudice against religion. I was just asking Max to clarify the one statement he said. I am very tolerant of other religions as long as they are tolerant of me. My aunt and my grandmother are Buddhist and a large portion of my in laws as well as extended family and friends are christian or Muslim, I also have quite a few Jewish relatives.

Way to jump the bandwagon and be a dick Firas.

Edit: To clarify my personal position because Firas is retarded and can't read, I personally am agnostic, I don't believe that we can presume to know whether there is a god or not, I also think that each person is free to live their life and have their beliefs even if I don't agree with them as long as they don't try to make me believe the same thing. I do personally believe that there are major flaws in the idea of organized religion and throughout history many wars and atrocities have shown this to be true. Whether or not this was caused by religion is up for debate but in my opinion religion is like a bomb, in the right hands it can sit there benignly and do nothing and be fine, but in the wrong hands it can be perverted and used to cause many bad things.

I believe that someone can have faith and believe in god or gods and live a good life and be a good person without feeling the need to go to a temple or church and pray or follow arbitrary rules made up by man in order to be a good person. I also believe that non-faithful people or people who do not believe in god can live a good life and be a good person as well.

[Faris]

didnt mean you in specific sorry, meant the atheist mob

[Maxxthepenguin]

Most of my family is Jewish, I do know that. Way to take what was a regular conversation and spoil it because you have a short temper. This thread just poisons people.

My point still stands though that spreading the word is a very large part of a lot of religions out there and I find that your previous statement was at odds with it.

Does this mean you are only ok with the religions that do not preach this?

I called Alleya a philharmonic douchebag 10 pages back and that was me being friendly about it. Calling you an uneducated fuck was my way of saying "you really don't seem to know much about the actual religions of the world." It was just punchier.

Your point doesn't stand because it doesn't have to be part of organized religion. You asked for an answer to a question and now you don't seem to care about the answer. Just because you can make a generalization about many religions doesn't mean you can make it about them all.

And I don't judge religions based on conceptual views, I decide based on how individuals act under the religion. I realized the importance of this when I noticed that some of the most grounded, rational, and altogether nicest people in my school were the few Mormons in it. Also, people pick and choose what to take from religions all the time. I've known people who personally gained a lot through their faith in Baptist Christianity who realized the problems with trying to convert the masses, so they stopped that part.

[zoobernut]

Ok fair enough. I took the uneducated fuck the wrong way. I do see what you mean and I agree with you on that point I was over generalizing.

I also agree with you that it is important to judge religions based on how its followers act but I also think it is important to balance that with why they act the way they do which is the conceptual part.

On an individual basis I have met many very devout religious people of different religions that were very tolerant and very nice and very intelligent. I have had the opposite general interaction when those same people get into a large group.

Edit: At Firas figure out who is who before just jumping to conclusions about people next time.

[Norellicus]

That is a belief, the same way belief in God is a belief. There is evidence on one side (that it may have a genetic component and is possibly influenced by hormonal balances in the womb) and absolutely no evidence on the other (that it's a "sickness", however you're trying to define that...)

While 'sickness' is a bad term, the fact that there is evidence that it has genetic components and is possibly related to hormone balances in the womb makes it complicit to the idea that it's an "illness" that needs specific attention/corrective action, in the same sense as Downs Syndrome or any number of congenital defects.

I'm not saying I agree with that mind you, just pointing out where the "You're broken/ill" crowd tend to potentially find their feet in the matter, and as tends to be common with most any component of society the bible thumpers take that concept beyond the extreme.

[Restrat]

then it's only an "illness" in the same way blonde hair is an "illness"