Square Enix, This is for you and FFXIV

[Asmoranomar]

It appears to be random. Some people with main accounts (only) got banned. Some people with alternate accounts got banned. Some people had both banned.
Some people with alternate accounts only had their main banned. Some people with multiple alternate accounts only had one of them banned.
Some people haven't been banned at all.

If there's a thing to learn from this, its that SE still has not created standards to which common punishment is dealt to all. I'm not saying these people deserve this, I'm just saying that, based on previous history, we shouldn't expect there to be a pattern. This is probably why its so difficult for the ones that did get banned - as there are people sitting on both sides of the fence. One group is saying "I garden - and I got banned!" and the other saying "I garden - and I didn't!". After that, you have the community at odds with each other, slowing down any chance at trying to resolve the problem as one.

But seriously, if this was another one of those "Quit lying, you did something else and your just not telling us" things, I'm not so sure there would be so many people. And I don't think at all that they were 'cheating' - as many of them have stated that *IF* they had known it would trigger a ban, they would have stopped.

Just to put it in perspective though, if people don't understand. A gardening mule using wildgrass+water would make approximately 20k or less gil in 6 days. If you had 2 accounts (32 mules) and rotated them so you could harvest/feed every day, it took approximately 90 mins to do and netted you about 100k a day. In order to beat this, you need to have more mules: about a 100 mules would net you 320k a day and about 5 hours of work a day. Difficult to do if you were a single owner of all the accounts; easy to do if you were a dozen RMT able to login on multiple computers.

And this is where SE fails - These people have nowhere the means of generating gil on the scale of what RMT do. Unless your sporting 6+ accounts, and logging into all of them at once, controlling all of them at once, and making gil off them simultaneously - Your making gil much too slow to even remotely be considered RMT, even if you were just amassing gil.

Of course, its possible that SE thought these legitimate players were small RMT 'cells' - and that might be the heart of the problem.

[Linktri]

The funny thing is, I've not had any real negative experience with Squeenix customer service. However I will not under any circumstances play FFXIV. The same fucking idiot developers are on the XIV team. I've greatly enjoyed FFXI but I want to be able to face reasonable challenges in the game. Absolute Virtue is NOT a reasonable challenge. Pandaemonium Warden is NOT a reasonable challenge. (I know that some linkshells are able to drop him regularly now and though I don't hold it against them, logging out of them game to beat a monster is fucking stupid imo. Shitty development.)

Constant improvements to the game are great but more often then not, Squeenix fucks up their updates so massively that it detracts from entire areas of gameplay. Campaign anyone?

I know that there are a few million people out there figuring out new ways of playing FFXI and that there's only a handful of devs. Our collective intelligence (aside from some of you jackasses) far exceeds theirs. That doesn't mean that if we find a new method of doing something that they didn't intend, that they should seek out to ass fuck us repeatedly and force us to do things their way. Why the fuck would the devs modify AV if the players are too good for it? LEAVE IT THE FUCK ALONE!

Hey devs, we can kill Kirin in less than 30 seconds too. Don'tcha think it's about time for a patch on him? Make him physical immune. That way were forced to fucking kite his ass in circles for six hours. Yeah, that'll keep us playing a little longer.

I don't know who is running shit over in Squeenix Japan but I can tell you something, airships named for summons is fucking stupid. FFXII was mediocre at best. Your single player products are suffering from stagnation as well. If FFXIII can be expected to be anything like your recent trash, I'll be sending you a letter filled with talc. Have fun with that shit.

Here's some hints for you Squeenix:
1. Stop coming up with lame ideas. No one wants Shiva to be an airship or turn into a motorcycle. We want a blue, big-titted bitch that blows shit up with ice. Stop fucking with the canon that you created.

2. Make the plot coherent for a NA audience. I know that you Japanese people want a crazy plot that involves a ton of random metaphysical bullshit, which makes almost no sense but come the fuck on. How about something a little more straightforward.
**
Hero1: See that nigga over there? He's got a space bomb that can destroy the universe. Go kill his punk ass.
Hero2: Ok.
**

3. Concept RPGs more often than not suck some balls. Stop experimenting with us. Save that shit for the Japanese and people like Charismatic who jerk it to anime and imports.

4. Stop ignoring the player base. When we say that your support and customer service suck ass, we mean it. Just because we are addicted to FFXI doesn't mean that we're going to take your shit forever. If I ran into a Squeenix employee in a dark alley, I'd punch them in the dick/twat until (s)he passed the fuck out and I'm second generation pissed the fuck off. I'd hate to see what one of the mother fuckers you banned on accident would do to you. Squeenix has a C rating with the Better Business Bureau. That's about 50% on their scale. I don't know how the grading system works in Japan but here in the U.S. 50% is FUCKING FAILING.

5. Get (the vast majority of your) shit right the first time.

6. STOP FIXING SHIT THAT IS NOT BROKEN!

7. Don't you assholes have swords to fall on when you fuck up this bad? I'm suprised 90% of Squeenix hasn't killed themselves yet.

[Miori]

7. Don't you assholes have swords to fall on when you fuck up this bad? I'm suprised 90% of Squeenix hasn't killed themselves yet.

/agreed

[Kaslo]

2. Make the plot coherent for a NA audience. I know that you Japanese people want a crazy plot that involves a ton of random metaphysical bullshit, which makes almost no sense but come the fuck on. How about something a little more straightforward.
**
Hero1: See that nigga over there? He's got a space bomb that can destroy the universe. Go kill his punk ass.
Hero2: Ok.
**

No.

I'm sorry but I want something complex that makes me think. I know you probably love your standard based sitcoms and romantic comedies but I for one want my entertainment complex and interesting, and my comedy too. You probably hated Futurama because the jokes weren't as easy to understand as the Simpsons.

[Linktri]

No.

I'm sorry but I want something complex that makes me think. I know you probably love your standard based sitcoms and romantic comedies but I for one want my entertainment complex and interesting, and my comedy too. You probably hated Futurama because the jokes weren't as easy to understand as the Simpsons.

Your clever attempt to pull the RL card is cute at best. I don't like the Simpsons or Futurama very much. I play too much FFXI to watch that much TV. I do like It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia.

There's a difference between complex and incoherent. Most of the context in Japanese entertainment is greatly lost in translation.

Oh and if you need a video game to "make you think", you've already fucking lost. Give up now.

[Kaslo]

Your clever attempt to pull the RL card is cute at best. I don't like the Simpsons or Futurama very much. I play too much FFXI to watch that much TV. I do like It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia.

There's a difference between complex and incoherent. Most of the context in Japanese entertainment is greatly lost in translation.

Oh and if you need a video game to "make you think", you've already fucking lost. Give up now.

I'm just saying I want more than, that guy's bad let's fight him as you were suggesting. Even if there is a similar situation, like Kefka in FFVI, I want the character to be deep and there to be other reasons and storylines going on (like FFVI).

[Midnightjade]

Don't you assholes have swords to fall on when you fuck up this bad? I'm suprised 90% of Squeenix hasn't killed themselves yet.

They do but they keep missing.

[Acturus]

so, we're getting banned because they know how to make gil faster then us and we've only learned by watching or doing things repetitively which has turned out profit, so they are just putting it in a nutshell "if you make gil, you must be an rmt"? :\ wow go SE

It's always been like this in some respects. Some like to comment that RMT are the ones that dictate the future of the game, because when RMT do something, everyone gets hurt in response. Look at the blood farmers that got nerfed. Whatever the players figure out how to do, RMT figure out how to do constantly.

As for gardening, this is more of a case of Wildgrass seeds and their 6-day turnaround coupled with the trial accounts affording RMT the ability to fully exploit gardening. Most gardeners have been doing it literally for years, without issue. I'd even go so far as to believe that RMT have been gardening for a long time as well, but the concept of Wildgrass seeds and selling to an NPC takes the system away from the rest of the game. There's no need to buy or sell from the AH.

[MaachaQ]

It's not only their random-bans on RMT accounts that are hurting normal players. Sure there may be some RMT based in South Korea (there are RMT in every country, even the US and Japan), but SE decided to ban all South Korean IP addresses from access to POL/FFXI. So now the RMT and legit players alike need to use a VPN or Proxy to connect to the game... I've been a loyal customer for 6 years now, 4 of those years in the US, but now I need to bounce my internet connection the the US and back to be able to play the game I'm so addicted to... my Fiber-optic internet connection feels like dialup now...

I will not be buying FFXIV if this, among other issues like HNM/NMs and zone instancing, are not fixed. I am sure I am not alone.

[Cadsuane]

Your clever attempt to pull the RL card is cute at best. I don't like the Simpsons or Futurama very much. I play too much FFXI to watch that much TV. I do like It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia.

There's a difference between complex and incoherent. Most of the context in Japanese entertainment is greatly lost in translation.

Oh and if you need a video game to "make you think", you've already fucking lost. Give up now.

Blaming the incomprehensibility of JRPG plots on poor translation is giving it way too much credit, really. There's usually that point, about a third to halfway through a game like MGS or Xenogears, where the game completely jumps the shark and becomes unbearably contrived. Then people are stupid, and start analyzing Xenogears/saga for bible allegories or some bullshit, and never realize that judeo-christian symbolisms in an asian sci-fi setting is just incoherent and haphazard and that the complexity is egregiously fake.

In FFXI, if they just made me pay 10 dollars for a new piece of augment gear and some BCNM access for extra shit, I'd be happier with the add-on scenarios. Which is not to say I wouldn't think it's fucking retarded, but less so than suffering through some bile about nihilistic talking rocks and misguided deities and saving the world from some vague prophecy of destruction that the bad guys are always misreading.

[Alderaan]

Isn't this how JP culture is? Keep everything secret and don't communicate with their client base. "This is our game, you play it, no questions asked". SE needs to get out of their own way. Their biggest obstacle is their own stubbornness.

[Mistress Stowastiq]

@Op: I hope you mail the letter/post as well. As a customer, I am very content with SE but I am a firm believer in customer feedback and requiring a business to be accountable for their policy choices and CS training. If you contact customer service they will give you the email address of Mr Bisby I think his name is. Your post is not too long, it is well written. SE does pay attention to long forum posts. The community team has recently as well as in the past, responded to lengthy, well written complaint posts on Alla. Still, nothing wrong with revising it but I believe the main one you should send by postal mail and sign it.

wait I missed something, weren't they banned for gardening? Not really an exploit.

Ksandra I thought he was referring to the bans due to charge backs on credit cards and perhaps the gardening being roped in with them.

@Darkyrm, the gardening has been going on long after the ninja fixes for the rmt gil exploit. The exploits you are referring to were actually stopped. SE has made no official mention of npc gil gardening being illegal or an exploit, they just have a habit of adjusting prices on items that result in excessive profits from npc sell back. Unless there was an announcement today that I missed.

[Hosom]

Here's some hints for you Squeenix:
1. Stop coming up with lame ideas. No one wants Shiva to be an airship or turn into a motorcycle. We want a blue, big-titted bitch that blows shit up with ice. Stop fucking with the canon that you created.

2. Make the plot coherent for a NA audience. I know that you Japanese people want a crazy plot that involves a ton of random metaphysical bullshit, which makes almost no sense but come the fuck on. How about something a little more straightforward.
**
Hero1: See that nigga over there? He's got a space bomb that can destroy the universe. Go kill his punk ass.
Hero2: Ok.
**

Firstly, I would like to make this very clear: If you want to be a brogamer, Halo awaits, but don't assume that only the Japanese players enjoy a storyline. If you don't like the game, why the hell are you still playing it? Stop your whiny bitching.

Secondly, your ignorant views of Japanese culture are annoying and stupid.

3. Concept RPGs more often than not suck some balls. Stop experimenting with us. Save that shit for the Japanese and people like Charismatic who jerk it to anime and imports.

Once again, their game, why did you buy it if you didn't appreciate it?

4. Stop ignoring the player base. When we say that your support and customer service suck ass, we mean it. Just because we are addicted to FFXI doesn't mean that we're going to take your shit forever. If I ran into a Squeenix employee in a dark alley, I'd punch them in the dick/twat until (s)he passed the fuck out and I'm second generation pissed the fuck off. I'd hate to see what one of the mother fuckers you banned on accident would do to you. Squeenix has a C rating with the Better Business Bureau. That's about 50% on their scale. I don't know how the grading system works in Japan but here in the U.S. 50% is FUCKING FAILING.

You speaking for the entire community annoys me. When you say the word we you include me, and I'd really rather not be associated with anyone as ignorant as you.

5. Get (the vast majority of your) shit right the first time.

Go play WoW. Then tell me what you think about what is broken in FFXI. When was the last time you saw a mob just fall through the floor in FFXI? Because I've never even seen something close to that happen. If you knew anything about programming though, you would know that when you finish something, even if you do happen to test it (I won't claim that SE beta tests as well as they could, but they do at least test) you couldn't possibly recreate the conditions that will occur when it goes live. Things will break, and things will go wrong. Deal with it. This isn't a 360 game, SE doesn't have 2 years to beta test every map/zone/mission/quest/npc in every condition when they release new content. When SE releases new main expansions, and major patches, the servers are a lot more stable than other games (Anyone ever played on Bleeding Hollow NA on WoW? If so, you probably get why I'm referring to it).

7. Don't you assholes have swords to fall on when you fuck up this bad? I'm suprised 90% of Squeenix hasn't killed themselves yet.

First off: You have to stop their Regen.

Second off, it, and legions of brogamers just like you await.

[fndragon]

Why is SE's response to this to ban the players involved? You'd think the best response would be to remove wildgrass from the NPC vendor. That's what caused this mess to start with; There are no other NPC vendors that sell any type of seeds. Just add wildgrass seeds to the saplings' drop tables and remove it from the NPC vendor.

[Cadsuane]

blah blah blah my knowledge of and preference for japanese culture and games makes me more refined than you go play halo

Cunt.

[Yugl]

Why is SE's response to this to ban the players involved? You'd think the best response would be to remove wildgrass from the NPC vendor. That's what caused this mess to start with; There are no other NPC vendors that sell any type of seeds. Just add wildgrass seeds to the saplings' drop tables and remove it from the NPC vendor.

Obviously it's because they took the player's advice, which is that "RMT are easy to spot! They do (List of activities) repeatedly!". I bet none of this shit would happen if they told the player base to stfu and let them handle it. Same goes for the IP banning in South Korea (Remember the "All RMT are from 'Name of location here'" comments?). Quite frankly, I find it's listening to the player base that causes most of these problems.

[Hosom]

Cunt.

Not really, just get annoyed when people make general comments about a group of people they have never met. I don't prefer Japanese culture, but I play a series of games originating from Japan, so I don't bitch if they are geared for Japanese gamers. Which leads me to ask why anyone would be surprised that a Japanese gaming company would gear their game for a Japanese audience. Odd.

[Cadsuane]

I wouldn't be nearly so crass as to suggest that games made for Japanese players by japanese companies are uniformly tasteless pieces of nonsensical shit. As in, I'm very well aware that there are games made by asian developers that are quite palatable and innocent of JRPG stereotypes. Though if you mean to say that JRPGs dripping with haphazard fantasy/sci-fi crossover plots and unlikely haircuts resonate all across across the japanese demographic because they're jaypees and they just don't know any better, maybe you're the one suggesting it.

Furthermore if you're going to shit on a guy for making generalizations about a group of people and their entertainment, how hypocritical is it for you to pull the same card and bitch about xbox culture?

[Hosom]

Though if you mean to say that JRPGs dripping with haphazard fantasy/sci-fi crossover plots and unlikely haircuts resonate uniformly across across the japanese demographic because they're asian and they just don't know any better, maybe you're the one suggesting it.

No, I'm stating that if you are aiming for a specific audience, and something has worked in the past, you're most likely to use it again. Thus, we have a series of roughly 18+ games with many of the same or similar things (unlikely haircuts etc), and people still play them. They are a company and they will do what makes them money. SquareEnix is not interested in what happens if they lose 1 sale on FFXIV, because people will buy it for the sole reason it is a FINAL FANTASY title. This is the same reason why people bought games like Dirge of Cerberus. If you don't like something that a company does when they make a game, why piss and moan about it thinking that they will change it, when instead you could go play a more linear storyline. Halo wasn't mentioned just because of the stereotypes of popped collars, pink shirts, and plaid pants. Halo was mentioned because it is made with an American audience in mind. Halo is a product with a linear storyline, the same type of storyline that the poster I quoted was asking for.

My point is, SE has already made a profit on FFXI, and will continue to make a profit on it. The only reason to do anything with it right now is to insure the success of FFXIV, and to keep FFXI in profit so long as the servers stay up. You all asked for RMT bannings, they gave you RMT bannings. To be honest, a lot of the people who post screenshots of them sassing people who work at the SE customer support center really have no clue how customer support works.

tl;dr: Stop whining about SE making a game you don't like, no one put a gun to your head and made you play FFXI. It's their MMO, and they'll run it into the ground if they want to.

[Linktri]

I need to learn to troll harder.

Stop being such a twat. I used to live in Japan. I'll think what I want about what I want and if you read what I wrote then suck it. I don't really give two shits about what you think. You clearly read only the parts of my post that you wanted to respond to. Does the milk that flows from the teat of Squeenix taste good to you? Is it sweet? Just because I use a company's product doesn't exempt them (or you) from my (and hundreds, if not thousands, of other players) constant bitching.

If you don't like bitching, you're in the wrong thread dickface.