Running an Einherjar LS; Changing Policies

[byte]

Well he didn't blame us for anything till we left.

We left cause we got tired of him blaming us every run.

Sorry but this really gave me a good laugh lol.

[Killo]

Sorry but this really gave me a good laugh lol.

shhh I had a blond moment...

[Traydor]

Killo, if your group is the group from the OP from what I'm gathering, DRG's attacking random shit, People saying feint angon and dia 3 are useless in ein and they have better things to merit. As far as I'm concerned, and 90% of leader in the world should be, you wouldnt last 5 minutes anywhere else, not with that attitude, Leroy didnt come here to bitch he actually came for leading advice, which tells me he is man enough to admit he needs some pointers.

I dont care if its drama, I don't care if your GF is the one he is insulting, if you join another shell, with randoms, the leader is who you listen to, and clearly, people from your group were not doing that. The general rule I have for inviting friends of friends is this. Friends of friends are always welcome in my shells. But that just gets you the ticket in, it does not mean you are able to be spared from humiliation or termination from a shell. If you arent up to par out you go.

Sorry for the mini rant but the truth is, any leader, and I mean any leader that would put up with those shenanigans for more than 5 minutes needs work, thats clear, but atleast he went somewhere looking for it wanting to succeed.

Anyway Leroy The comments I read earlier, Caps lock, removing people and shouting orders mid battle to remind people of strategys all work very well. I would also say that if you are having issues with people on jobs, Make the rule that you choose everyones job, it can suck but it means that at the end of the day you should be set.

[Leroy]

I feel stupid for asking, but I just woke up. Am I missing posts or something or is he going back and editing shit out? lol. It seems like people are referencing posts I didn't get to see.

I had to deal with angry tells from these guys for about 5 hours yesterday. Obsessed much? They threatened to "show BG how horrible a leader I was". Don't really care, especially because I myself, and I think all of my members in my ls still, don't think I'm a horrible leader, should be all that matters.

Some of the threats I got:

They were going to show that I yell at people in ALL CAPS INSIDE EINHERJAR. I just type in caps because I think it's bigger and easier to see, what with all the horrible lag and chat scroll even with filters up.

One of them threatened to kick my ass lol.

BG was gonna hear about my awful strategies. Coincidentally, I was going to ask if anyone minded if I copy/pasted my strategies from the ls site here for critiquing, but there's a lot of repetitiveness in some of them that don't have any gimmicks.

BG was going to hear about how I gave the order to let "the little DRG that could" die, and not to raise him. Which members of said group didn't do, as they kept tossing him R3. I think it's a pretty good call. Over the course 3 mob waves, he continued to engage random mobs despite many people telling him to stop and to fix his shit. All of our healers and sleepers were weakened halfway through the last wave.

BG was going to hear about how I called for a Zerg in the last 2 minutes with a few bats and the boss left. I was just going through the motions. We had 30 seconds left when we engaged the Boss. Not nearly enough time for our type of shell to kill it. It was practice for getting into zerg mode faster, which our ls can use. It actually went pretty well to since everyone ese came awa impressed with the damage dealt to the boss in the short amount of time we had left. So good practice opportunity that raised morale? AWFUL IDEA.

They called me onto their vent. They made fun of my accent and called me a wifebeater hillbilly and said my wife was a ditzy bitch that tries to fix everybodies's problems, and probably deserved it. At least my wife knows how to do her job, tries to fix problems instead of starting them, and can go a whole Einherjar without afking unannounced for ~10 minutes.




Anyway, does anyone mind if I post some of our strategies here for review? I also made a list of ways our members could possibly improve their usefulness through merits. Mind if I post that too? It'd just be copied and pasted from my ls site since it's a lot for me to type lol.

[Stromgarde]

Posting the alliances / jobs of people for a given raid would probably be helpful; strategy doesn't vary terribly much between waves aside from certain things only being light/dark sleepable.

[Leroy]

I was thinking boss strategies. We don't have any real changes to strategy between waves other than making the SAMs hobaku spam in nasty shit like dragons and wamouras.

[Stromgarde]

Hobaku is a waste of a strong weaponskill opportunity when you should have dark knights stunning that stuff, and wamouras aren't that nasty at all. Belkin made an excellent LJ post about the tier 3 bosses, but perhaps you had some questions about the lower tier ones as well?

[OctavoGilgamesh]

BG was going to hear about how I gave the order to let "the little DRG that could" die, and not to raise him. Which members of said group didn't do, as they kept tossing him R3. I think it's a pretty good call. Over the course 3 mob waves, he continued to engage random mobs despite many people telling him to stop and to fix his shit.

What we really need is this drg to respond to these allegations! :/

[Leroy]

We have 0 dark knights for the most part.

The loss to damage from having a few SAMs spamming hobaku really isn't as bad as the loss of DD from Body Slam spam. Wamoura also have annoying AoEs and can cure spam themselves. We just found that some mobs just move faster if you make some of the SAMs Soboro and Hobaku. It makes a pretty cool stun lock with enough haste.

[Yugl]

We have 0 dark knights for the most part.

The loss to damage from having a few SAMs spamming hobaku really isn't as bad as the loss of DD from Body Slam spam. Wamoura also have annoying AoEs and can cure spam themselves. We just found that some mobs just move faster if you make some of the SAMs Soboro and Hobaku. It makes a pretty cool stun lock with enough haste.

Tell your DDs to stop being idiots and sub NIN. Two to three shadows takes care of Body Slam and the healer should focus on the tank anyways. Those Soboros are probably giving more TP to the mob than a normal GK would and will cause *more* TP spam than if they used Hagun and kill Gekkoed.

[Leroy]

To be fair, the drg seemed like a decent person, albeit very poorly geared. We didn't have any problems with him before or anything. His performance that run was so fucking horrible though, I'd sooner believe he was a secret agent of a rival ls, trying to dishearten us so they can steal away members, than just that fucking stupid. There just has to be a tinfoil hat laced conspiracy theory going on here because I don't think I can have faith in humanity anymore if we can produce something that stupid.

Coincidentally, he was brought in by the ls in question...DUN DUN DUN!

[Leroy]

Tell your DDs to stop being idiots and sub NIN. Two to three shadows takes care of Body Slam and the healer should focus on the tank anyways. Those Soboros are probably giving more TP to the mob than a normal GK would and will cause *more* TP spam than if they used Hagun and kill Gekkoed.

All of our DDs sub nin, and as for the the tp spam? There's already 15 DD beating on the mob feeding it tp+3 for each hit it takes basically. There's literally no way in hell the mob doesn't have tp already. One attack round from our DDs would give the mob 150tp right there.

I think a lot of people don't get that the feeding TP thing is bullshit unless you're using a few DD that have decent amounts of subtle blow on a bigger mob with deadly TP moves.

It's not really needed for All mobs,just when we get a few of a dangerous type, it seems they get much higher hp/def/atk when there's less of them.

The Hobaku thing worked like a charm for us against the Dragons and the Wamoura. Others might not like it, but it worked a hell of a lot better for us than anything else.

[Yugl]

All of our DDs sub nin, and as for the the tp spam? There's already 15 DD beating on the mob feeding it tp+3 for each hit it takes basically. There's literally no way in hell the mob doesn't have tp already. One attack round from our DDs would give the mob 150tp right there.

I think a lot of people don't get that the feeding TP thing is bullshit unless you're using a few DD that have decent amounts of subtle blow on a bigger mob with deadly TP moves.

It's not really needed for All mobs,just when we get a few of a dangerous type, it seems they get much higher hp/def/atk when there's less of them.

The Hobaku thing worked like a charm for us against the Dragons and the Wamoura. Others might not like it, but it worked a hell of a lot better for us than anything else.

If you have 15 DDs on one mob sure. If you have three parties in different areas (To avoid AoEing another group), then the mob is only getting about as much TP as a merit PT would give a mob.

[Leroy]

We use 1 assist. It makes it easier on people. I mean our group is a pickup mostly, so I try to make it as simple as possible. Of course if you've followed the thread apparently it isn't simple enough...

Anyway, sacrificing ~3 SAMs to spam Hobaku isn't so bad from personal experience. It's like a stun lock really, not quite CS stun, but damn if it isn't close.

[Stromgarde]

3 Samurai using Gekko instead of Hobaku is a ton of damage you're missing out on. If they're eating damage from Body Slam, then they aren't focusing enough on keeping shadows up. If you have a list of jobs of the people you have coming to Einherjar regularly, you should post it. Switching a few DD to DRK if possible can shore up the stun solution without sacrificing damage. Single assist can be fine, as long as people have their heads on straight.

[Leroy]

It's hard to keep shadows up with 15 people beating on a dragon, it normally looks like this:

Ormr readies Body slam.
Melee hit
Ormr Readies Body Slam.
Melee hit
melee hit
Ormr Readies Chaos Blade.
Melee hit
Ormr Readies Body Slam.

If they're the stronger ones that come in smaller groups, sub 25% its like Faust was reincarnated as a dragon, I shit you not they don't even melee after that point.


If we had any decent DRKs besides myself, I'd let them be DRK, especially for Chaos Roll. Most of the people to our LS either don't have DRK, don't have a Good DRK, or have a more important job they need to be, like BRD or WHM or RDM.

Also, there's the fact that a SAM spamming Hobaku can stun 3-6 more times than a DRK in the time it take's stun's recast to come back up. 3 Soboro SAMs with Marches, Haste, decent gear, and hasso can literally put out a good 27-54 stuns a minute. It cripples mobs with nasty AoEs. We also still have a ton of DDs left to beat on shit. You could also make the lesser geared SAMs spam Hobaku.

Anyway, don't knock it till you've tried it once.

[Killo]

Coincidentally, he was brought in by the ls in question...DUN DUN DUN!

SECRET AGENT MAN!!!!!

[Jesifromgaruda]

Sorry to take away from the drama and back and forths but...

I have a question about BRD rotation.

The ein LS I am in is fairly new, has about 26 members and they have three BRDs that show up.

This group has had zero wins so far in about 3 runs. It's pretty annoying to have to pay for ein because the group hasn't won yet. But anyway...

Someone DCed while we were about to enter and the leader asked if we had any questions. I asked "Since we have 3 BRDs, are we going to do a BRD rotation for 6 songs on all the melees?" Which he responded "No, but maybe for the boss."

So with about 10 members less than cap, should they be doing BRD rotation for extra speed in killing? We failed that run with the boss at about 20% health, which I felt that if we had 6 songs on all the melees, we might have won.

Does your ein LS constantly rotate BRDs? Whats the usual protocal on this? Oh, and does the group rotate one BRD into the BLM party for ballad?

I'm asking this to everyone really, not just the OP btw.

EDIT: Thought I'd join in on the drama for a moment.

Leroy, I'm 100% on your side. You did the right thing. Find better players. Anyone who can't follow a simple /assist is pretty rediculous. And people who somehow think that you somehow shouldn't boot him are just as rediculous.

And the comments about angon, feint and dia III.....holy mother of god. I feel sorry for you man. I really hope your group finds better members. Good luck!

[Bakthi]

Mine didn't used to rotate BRDs on the waves, just on the boss. But we tried it and decided that we really needed to keep doing it. Heck, we still do it for T1, even.

We make sure we have at least 2 BRDs. The LS leader (who always comes WHM) and me (always come COR) are the party leads for the "main" DD parties. Leftover DDs go into a 3rd party, and that party gets a BRD if we can manage a 3rd one. Rotating 2 BRDs between 2 parties is enough for us. Half the time, the last party ends up being like BLU THF RDM RDM anyway.

I have a macro that's just "/pcmd add <r>". I wait until a BRD /tells me, and hit it. The BRDs are really too busy to pull, so since we have a THF for Feint anyway, and a few PLDs to help corral mobs, we make them do it. When it's boss time, we have the BRDs SV and rotate one last time. At that point, we rotate as many BRDs as we have through all the DD parties.

We alternate between having 1 and 2 /as. It really depends on the mobs. Some die fast, some don't. Some have bad TP moves, some not so bad. Because we often have 2 /as, the BRD rotation parties are actually NOT in the same alliance, as they each contain an /as caller. This is to avoid confusing the melee (who, as has been pointed out, tend to confuse easily despite having comparatively little to do >.>). The "leftovers" party assists mine and is in my alliance (along with a party containing feather mules and absentee people being 2-boxed). The BLM party assists my LS leader's party, and also has the PLD party in their alliance.

It really does make a performance difference. The first time we did it, we had party leads and BRDs on TS to sort through any difficulties (sadly, I just can't make our LS use voice chat regularly). Since then, it has mostly gone smoothly. Of course, sometimes you still get an ass-handing from a bad T3, but nothing can stop that.

[Argettio]

Groups I have been in only rotate bards with SV just before the boss.

But I am sure if you were well enough organised you could have a constant rotation.

I mean if you really wanted to; you could write a little windower macro that invites the bards to make it almost automatic.