Running an Einherjar LS; Changing Policies

[Drex]

For boss in any tier, there's really no reason not to do SV+Troub+Night 3x brd rotation. It takes like 1 min tops to do and 6 songs + cor rolls is just silly good for a zerging.

For normal mobs, it's hit or miss based on your people really. I personally feel that 2x brd rotation is better than 3x, since double mads and double minuets is pretty overkill, but we also run a cor in each melee party. 2x march+mad+min+drk roll+sam roll is plenty of power and ensures the songs will stay up full time. With meat and dia, that should get attack very close to cap, acc capped, and still double march+sam roll for sick kill speed. If you get, say, chigoes, you could switch to drk+rng rolls and cover your acc needs fine.

With 3x rotation, I found songs were dropping before going back up, and losing marches part of the time for the sake of an extra mad+extra min that probably weren't adding anything to our kill speed felt like a waste. We probably could've gotten it down faster if we kept at it, but as one of the party leaders myself, I hated 3x rotation vs. 2x rotation for normal mobs. Just seems like a lot of extra work to overcap my acc and attack.

[Evul]

I've lead a ls on the shiva server for a while now. Very similar to the OP, we are a mixed ls with members coming from all over Shiva. I'll make a few suggestions that you might find useful.

Come up with a crew that can make EVERY run or as close to every run as possible. Stress to your members that attendance is very important. If they can only make 80% of your runs they are useless. The only thing they are good for is to help on a tier win here and there. If most of your members are missing runs you'll never reach any level of consistency.


Be well organized! I put the roster up for each run up on our jar site and got members in the habit of checking the site before they head out to jar to see what job they will be. Pt leaders and ally leaders are assigned and form their own pt's/ally. This helps a ton. Less work for you to do right before you enter. Instead of spending all your time trying to get people on the right jobs while your gathering, you can then spend that time going over any details of the tier you'll be entering.

Have your stun orders set to /tell. don't assume your members are reading pt chat. A /tell is harder to miss. Try to have several stun orders. With my group the blm's have their own stun order, drk's their own, while the one rdm/drk and blu free stun. You'll find this useful on bombs,slimes and dragons. Make sure your members have their filters set so the can see actions outside of pt/ally! Many people will miss stuns if they don't.

Make sure your members bring their meds. This can make or break a run. In my ls melee are required to bring poison, Holy water, echo's, eye drops, Icarus wings, rr, sleep pots, and an opo. On tier 2 and 3 all dd tp up to 100% tp before we enter. 95% of the time this is overkill. However, we have timed out waiting on the chest to pop after a boss twice. Being able to zerg down the 1st few mobs saves some time. Before KB its also nice to tp up to 100% before you start your zerg. Wings are for the tougher bosses or time crunch. Rare to use outside of tier 3.

Don't overwhelm your healers. /nin is your friend. The following is the roster minus the names of last nights run.

Alliance 1.

Tank PT

PLD/WAR-Aegis
NIN/DRK-Puller/backup Tank
WHM
BRD/WHM
RDM/DRK
SCH/RDM

DD pt 1

BRD
WHM
WAR/NIN
THF/NIN-Mandau
WAR/NIN
SAM/WAR

DD pt 2

MNK/NIN
WAR/NIN
DRG/SAM
WHM
BRD
THF-Mandau



Alliance 2


BLM PT

BLM/RDM
BLM/RDM
BLM/RDM
BLU
RDM/BLM
BLM/RDM

DD PT 3

MNK/NIN
SAM/WAR
WAR/NIN
WHM
BRD
MNK/NIN

DD pt 4

DRG/SAM-gung&^^&*^*
WHM
BRD
COR/NIN
WAR/NIN
DRK/NIN


If you notice you'll see each pt has 1 dd without shadows. Many off the mobs and bosses tp moves will be absorbed by shadows. Make sure your melee keep 3 shadows up at all times on mobs like dragons, diremite and slimes. This leaves the whm with a single target to cure in these cases. Both thf have 2 min feint. We would carry only 1 thf if they didn't have relics. 3 thf and your sacing alot of dmg. PD not going to do ya any good on KB Bring as much firepower as you can. Don't waste Sam's ws's with stun. if your worried about stun locking bring more blu. Let sam's do what they do.

On lager bosses set 1 ally on one side of the boss and 1 on the other. Melee tend to miss cures if the wander to far from their whm. Also help even things out and prevent people from standing in front or behind bosses. You don't want the melee getting hate from behind some bosses or eating LOS. This makes it easy for mages to land their curgas when needed.

Try multi assist on easier mobs. At times we have up to 3 going. Don't multi assist on mobs with bad aoe. As said throughout this thread brd swaps are very helpful.

Call out the BAR spells needed for each mob they apply to!!! Don't assume your mages knows what bar spell to cast.

We all have a 20 macro sets now. For tier 2 and 3 bosses make scripts to spit out all the info for the boss you'll fight. Use caps.

Make sure your ls knows that ls chat is for important use only during the run and it should be viewed as a red flag and paid attention to w/e it is used.


I'm sure im leaving some stuff out but try a few of these things if you like. I hope this wall of text helps. Seems like you have a good core. Until you get up close to 30, tier 3 might be difficult. For the record, you don't need a bunch of elite players to pull jar off. You only need a good team. Using these tactics we've gone on a 37 win streak and our current streak is at 19. Working on Odin # 24 atm^^ If you have any other questions or would like to look at the jar site send me a pm and I'll send you the info.

[Argettio]

BLM PT

BLM/RDM
BLM/RDM
BLM/RDM
BLU
RDM/BLM
BLM/RDM

Nice write up, but 1 question, why no AOE refresh (BRD or COR) in the BLM party?

You guys obviously know what you are doing (I wish I could find an einherjar shell this organised).

[Jesifromgaruda]

Thanks for all the responses about BRD rotation!

I'll definetly tell the leader and I think I'll try to get him to try 2xBRD rotation since it sounds decently easy and what someone says about 3xBRD rotation being too much of a pain sounds about right.

Hopefully we'll get our first win. Thanks!

[Leroy]

I'd Rather have 3 SAMs stun locking than bring BLUs, lol.

Most of the BLUs we have are pretty terrible. Like 4/5 AF and SH, full time. We have 1 great BLU, that's our best THF for Fent, and 2 decent-good BLUs that are other important jobs, like BRD and WHM.

I know people are going to hate on the thought of Hobaku, but I think if you look at the advantages of using SAMs vs BLU/DRKs for stuns on mobs, or see it in practice, you may be impressed.

SAMs stun faster than DRKs. They're slightly lower maintenance than DRK/BLU since they don't rely on mp/refresh. Better than BLU for Boss zerging by a long shot since they get more benefit from BRD/CORs, and the fact it's hard to fuck up with Gekko, what with the huge ACC/ATK bonuses built right in, whereas most BLUs suck goat dick, and my ls atm is a pickup shell so I have low player quality control (trying to fix). SAMs also generally perform better on normal mobs that don't get the Hobaku treatment (Remember only a few mobs with huge damage AoEs or self cures get Hobakus, and even then not if they're the weaker versions).As said before though, 3 Soboro SAMs put out enough stuns to practically CS stun all the mobs you pull, and generally put out a bit more DoT than the other SAMs, which helps a, very, little bit to make up for the loss of WS damage.

I also agree with the 2 BRD rotation being better than the 3 BRD rotation, except for if/when you Troubadour SV songs.

[Yugl]

I'm pretty much going to agree with most of what Evul said. Some stuff may not be necessary, but I agree with the majority of the post.

[Evul]

Nice write up, but 1 question, why no AOE refresh (BRD or COR) in the BLM party?

Wanted to carry a 2nd rdm that wasn't focused on tank duty/stun so that rdm got stuck in the blm pt.


And in dynamis I have 2 sams habaku on frag nm's to stop warp. it is effective, I just don't see the point in jar. To each their own though. Blu also has frightful roar which you might find helpful on mobs preboss. They also don't need to be /drk to spam stuns.

[Mikeal]

This is everything that is wrong with Einherjar. 30+ players together at the same time who aren't retarded is an outrageous requirement for an MMO that needs a miracle to happen. I really, really, really, really wish SE made it reasonable to win with 18.

You can win with 24. Just realize you won't win every week even if you had 36 people. Sometimes, einherjar just bends you over.

We typically go:

DDx3/nin cor brd whm ~~ DDx3/nin cor brd whm ~~ blu drg thf brd rdm whm
Then 1 party of 4xblm + rdm/whm + rdm/drk

Anything in addition to that is just bonus. cor party bards do sing/swap @ 5 minutes or boss whatever comes first. rdm party bard goes @ 7 minutes doing the sing/wait/abilities/sing.

Mele either 2hr on 2nd wave, or boss depending on mobs.

We make bards pull.

[Leroy]

Yeah, Einherjar can really fuck you up if it wants. Doing great, doing great, SOULFLAYERS AND DRGAONS HAHAHAHAHA.

Fuck.

[Drex]

Soulflayers are easy, Esuna and Finale

Dragons are just a "how good are your stunners" test

[Leroy]

Flayers are easy if you have whms that know what you're doing, and brds that have an attention span.

Big expectations for some people ~_~;

Just like /autotarget off or /assist name.

[Killo]

Ya Soul easy with a few good whm~

[Leroy]

Well, we have 3 awesome WHMs, but 1 is french so occasionally he misses due to our times, and the others have had to go BRD because our brds are having issues lately. One needs an HDD and the other is trying to get his account unbanned from the gardening/npcing shit. So for now we have choices like relying on new WHMs and having BRDs or having great WHMs and no BRDs. Oh well, hopefully we'll get back to normal soon.

[Leroy]

Funny thing.

Last night we went into Eiherjar, got the same mobs I believe as the last fun with the retards:

Eyes > Chigoes + Bats + Vampyr.

Raped with 4 minutes left. With less people. One more win and we'll have our first Odin fight.

[Leroy]

Ok, so if we win this tier II for the members that joined after we started tier IIIs, we'll be doing our first Odin Friday.

What are the possible grouping for the drops? I was told it was 1 kings body, 1 new body, 2 random abjs, and an Odin drop. I don't think this is true though...I mean it sounds possible bet I thought the ABJs were completely random, and are you guaranteed drops?

I'm just curious because I want us to work out who is getting what before we go in if possible.


As for strategy, it looks pretty straightforward? We use Ranged DD on it, use a small group of /NINs to hold summons, all run in at 75, 50, and 25%, all run away at 10-9% while an invincible PLD takes a knee, then just go to town on his ass?

[Greatguardian]

I have to jet for work in 10 minutes, so if no one's responded about Odin strats by then I'll write out a few tips for ya. But as for drop groupings, it's:

100% King Body
100% King non-body (Dfeet, Klegs, Nhead, etc)
100% New abjuration (Not necessarily body, we got Hlegs last Odin)
Body abjuration (New or Old)
Odin-specific

I think. Someone correct me if I'm off.

[Chojja]

I have to jet for work in 10 minutes, so if no one's responded about Odin strats by then I'll write out a few tips for ya. But as for drop groupings, it's:

100% King Body
100% King non-body (Dfeet, Klegs, Nhead, etc)
100% New abjuration (Not necessarily body, we got Hlegs last Odin)
Body abjuration (New or Old)
Odin-specific

I think. Someone correct me if I'm off.

You will get:

1 Body 100% (Doesnt have to be King body)
2 Non Body 100% (1 of which has to be a new abj)

You can get any combination of bodies. Its the non body abj's that are set, 1 H/P abj, 1 non H/P abj. The 2nd body isnt guaranteed nor is the Odin specific gear, so TH is still good to bring, particularly if they have capped feint, good for when fomors pop and last 10%.

[Qtipus]

Evul pretty much nailed the biggest thing you have to have for Einherjar. Organization.

Need to keep you strats simple. Some shells will do bard rotations throughout the fight, but I felt like this would distract people from a few other more important tasks like healing and sleeping. Also because it's not always easy to have everyone in song casting range for the rotation. Making sure each melee party has at least one bard in it singing marches is really all you'll need.

I keep 3 alliances instead of two. It's a simple trick that allows healers to remain more focused on their own parties instead of worrying about what another mage is or isn't doing. It also keeps the bard rotation for the boss very simple. The alliances are generally Sleep/Stun/Crowd Control, Melee A, and Melee B. Melee alliance parties are generally 4 melee + BRD + WHM. Sometimes 3 melee, BRD, COR, and WHM.

Prior to the run, I'll announce who the assists are along with the bard partners. At that point, I'll ask the bard partners to pick which songs they're going to play for the boss zerg. We use a single assist (Warriors), but I'll run out an order of three in case something unfortunate like Death Scissors. Pointing out these reminders prior to the run takes about 10 seconds and goes a long way towards making sure everyone is pointed in the right direction. Also if it's a critical instruction during the run, Caps Lock and a few spams of the same message go a long way. I'll never buy the "I didn't see you say it excuse" when I say it 5 times in a few seconds.

The strats we started using aren't super difficult strats. It's pretty much the same mentality for every boss and every wave of monsters with a few exceptions. Things like the buffalo boss on T1 needing to be pulled into a corner, dropping all your buffs for the dahak boss, a tank pulling the goat boss away while the rest of us deal with the demons or pointing out when we see the boss if it can be CS/Stunned or not. Once all the waves are dead and if time permits (as it usually does), I'll call everyone to a certain spot for BRD buffs, then rush in and zerg it. If time doesn't permit, then the bards and party leaders need to be capable of performing the party buff hop on the fly.