Cor (DD)

[cdgreg]

Lol not necessarily throwing store tp to the side for no reason. But I'm only like the second rank in campaign so that's why I'm disregarding cobra harness for sh+1. If possible I'd probably go CHU instead.

[barber2006]

The parse indicates you would gain nothing on your WS accuracy by going /rng. So really the only benefit would be melee accuracy and therefore ws frequency. But in essence, part of /rng would be 'wasted' unless you wanted to tweak your ws setup with more STR and less racc. 22 acc (11%) and 10% double attack is nearly a wash as far as TP gain and melee damage is concerned. Since /rng would not give anything for ws accuracy and would hurt ws damage in your case (and since DA and acc bonus are about a wash) it really boils down to "does barrage give me more damage potential than an average 15% attack/ratt bonus".

As for Cobra body, check into whether it shaves off a hit. For a joy/martial gun Cor, Cobra + brutal shaves off a hit (or really half a hit since DA can make you go over 100% anyway. Thats without using either of them for ws). If you have skadi legs on top of that I dont know if you can shave another hit or not with cobra. If you can its even better than skadi body. If its not then its not as good as SH +1.

As far as brutal earring is concerned, even without store TP considerations and even with it 'helping' only 50% of the time with joy, its still a 2.4% hit rate increase which is more than diabolos' or hollow provides with a 1h weapon.

[Byrthnoth]

Well, starting from low Acc the +4 Accuracy on hollow does more for you than the extra 2.25% DA from Brutal (45% without DA*0.05 = 2.25% DA increase). 77% Hit rate -> 79% Hit rate is a 2.59% increase from Hollow's 4 Acc, making it better than Brutal.

In a higher Acc and lower DA situation though, I'd agree with you. Also, in the build I made Suppa just gives 5 Atk and 4 Acc. For someone with Skadi, Brutal's 1 STP doesn't usefully change your TP return per hit of Joyeuse with or without Cobra body on regardless of whether or not you land Slug Shot. However, 405 Acc is above the hit rate cap (I believe) for one of the two levels of Colibri, so it's probably beneficial to use Brutal over Suppa. You lose 5 Atk but gain attack rounds.

Revised --
Main: Joyeuse
Sub: Wyvern Targe (1% Haste)
Ranged: Martial Gun
Ammo: Steel Bullet
Head: W-turban (5% Haste)
Neck: Ancient Torque (4 Dex, 9 Acc)
Ear1: Brutal Earring (5% DA)
Ear2: Wyvern Earring (5% Haste)
Body: Cobra Harness (11 Acc, 6 Stp)
Hands: Dusk Gloves +1 (4% Haste)
Ring1: Toreador's ring (7 Acc)
Ring2: Toreador's ring (7 Acc)
Back: Cuchu Mantle (4 Dex, 4 Str, 5 Acc)
Waist: Speed belt (6% Haste)
Legs: Skadi chausses (2% Haste, 7 STP, 4 Acc)
Feet: Dusk Ledelsens +1 (3% Haste)

/DRG, 8/8 Sword, Sushi
26% Haste (So, capped from gear)
57.25% DA (assuming 55% base on Joyeuse)
Accuracy Bonus (+10)
Attack Bonus (+10)
lolJump!
lolHighJump

256 Skill = 250 Acc
66 Dex = 33 Acc
Gear = 43 Acc
+8 Dex = 4 Acc
Acc bonus = 10 Acc
Total Acc: 340

Bream Sushi +1: 3 Acc from Dex, 401 Acc total

[cdgreg]

The parse indicates you would gain nothing on your WS accuracy by going /rng. So really the only benefit would be melee accuracy and therefore ws frequency. But in essence, part of /rng would be 'wasted' unless you wanted to tweak your ws setup with more STR and less racc. 22 acc (11%) and 10% double attack is nearly a wash as far as TP gain and melee damage is concerned. Since /rng would not give anything for ws accuracy and would hurt ws damage in your case (and since DA and acc bonus are about a wash) it really boils down to "does barrage give me more damage potential than an average 15% attack/ratt bonus".

Damn good points there. I did notice that my WS acc was at 94% so ya even with more WS's from faster tp gain due to increased acc the lower dmg per slug will take more to equal the higher dmg ones. I'm wondering if /drg with the +6% haste as well as slight acc/att boosts (and jump!) will be a happy medium between /war and /rng? I think it's time for me to stop theorizing and just get my ass back out there and re-parse.

[Carrilei]

The problem with /Drg is that it's hardly contributing to WS - just 10 Raac and 10 Raat. I don't think it's that "happy medium" between /War and /Rng - I assume you mean from an Acc point of view. All /Drg gives there is Acc Bonus I, which is 10 Acc.. Since you need to use Wyvern Earring instead of Suppa, /Drg only has a 5.5 Acc advantage over /War..

I'm not saying /Drg is an awful DD SJ, but I don't think it's better than /War, and I think Byrthnoth is being kind with the math. /War won't parse more than 2-3 points lower with melee Acc %, and I know when I've crunched the #'s /War wasn't at ~90%.

Edit ~ actually since /War has a couple points of base DEX over /Drg, it's only a 4.5 Acc advantage.

For someone with Skadi, Brutal's 1 STP doesn't usefully change your TP return per hit of Joyeuse with or without Cobra body on regardless of whether or not you land Slug Shot.

Eh? WS in Rajas + Enkidu's Subligar, TP in Skadi's Chausses + Rajas + Ecphoria + Brutal = 12 hit Joyeuse.

[cdgreg]

The problem with /Drg is that it's hardly contributing to WS - just 10 Raac and 10 Raat. I don't think it's that "happy medium" between /War and /Rng - I assume you mean from an Acc point of view. All /Drg gives there is Acc Bonus I, which is 10 Acc.. Since you need to use Wyvern Earring instead of Suppa, /Drg only has a 5.5 Acc advantage over /War..

I'm not saying /Drg is an awful DD SJ, but I don't think it's better than /War, and I think Byrthnoth is being kind with the math. /War won't parse more than 2-3 points lower with melee Acc %, and I know when I've crunched the #'s /War wasn't at ~90%.

Edit ~ actually since /War has a couple points of base DEX over /Drg, it's only a 4.5 Acc advantage.


Eh? WS in Rajas + Enkidu's Subligar, TP in Skadi's Chausses + Rajas + Ecphoria + Brutal = 12 hit Joyeuse.

Good points. The 2 earrings I use as of right now are diabolos (will replace with hollow this week) and brutal. So it'd be replacing one of those, but your point still stands of course even +~7acc really doesn't seem too drastic as the only real benefit from the sj.

edit: darrr ya the haste too

[Carrilei]

Well obviously the Haste is the biggest benefit from /Drg, and I'd say purely for TP purposes /Drg is > /War.. But WS performance has to be part of the equation, and /War murders /Drg.

[Byrthnoth]

Well, again it depends on the total amount of Haste you have. However, if you're WSing 15% more frequently vs. WSing 25% harder 60% of the time, it should work out in /DRG's favor. I dunno, /WAR is pretty strong in this case. I was just proposing it as an alternative because I hadn't seen much about it and generally people ignore it as an option because they prefer /DNC or /WHM for healing purposes with /WAR or /RNG for DDing.

Here, I'll do the math assuming a perfect gearset then I'll work it back with different buffs:

/DRG, 26% Haste, 95% HR on level 81 lolibri, 92% HR on level 82 lolibri, 93.5% average hit rate assuming 50/50. 57.25% Double Attack, 6.7TP/hit, 0STP on WS so 16.8 return with Martial+Steel bullet. 1 additional attack round per minute (Jump and High Jump).

/WAR, 20% Haste, 91.5% HR on level 81 lolibri, 87% HR on level 82 lolibri, 89.25% average hit rate assuming 50/50. 61.75% Double Attack, 6.7TP/hit, 0STP on WS so 16.8 return with Martial + Steel bullet. Berserk - 25% Attack boost 60% of the time.

With double march, 5/5 Haste samba, and Haste:
/DRG 70% Haste - 1.12 seconds per attack round. 13 contacts from WS to 100TP. 8.8 attack rounds per 100TP average. 9.9 seconds per WS. 54.6 attack rounds per minute and 6.17 WS/min (not counting gun delay post-WS, if it exists.)

/WAR 65% Haste - 1.3 seconds per attack round. 13 contacts from WS to 100TP. 9 attack rounds per 100 TP average. 11.7 seconds per WS. 46.2 attack rounds per minute and 5.12 WS/min (not counting gun delay post-WS, if it exists.)

6.17/5.12 is 1.2, so a 20% increase in WS frequency from /DRG. That said though, how often do you have all HQ gear and a Dancer?


Say you have NQ Dusk hands and feet with Swift belt, and you don't have a dancer:
/DRG, 22% Haste, 95% HR on level 81 lolibri, 93.5% HR on level 82 lolibri, 94.25% average hit rate assuming 50/50. 57.25% Double Attack, 6.7TP/hit, 0STP on WS so 16.8 return with Martial+Steel bullet. 1 additional attack round per minute (Jump and High Jump).

/WAR, 16% Haste, 93% HR on level 81 lolibri, 88.5% HR on level 82 lolibri, 90.75% average hit rate assuming 50/50. 61.75% Double Attack, 6.7TP/hit, 0STP on WS so 16.8 return with Martial + Steel bullet. Berserk - 25% Attack boost 60% of the time. Despite not actually working this way in the TP phase, this will be assumed to provide a 25% damage boost for the sake of argument.

/DRG 56% Haste - 1.64 seconds per attack round. 13 contacts from WS to 100TP. 8.77 attack rounds per 100TP average. 9.9 seconds per WS. 37.5 attack rounds per minute and 4.27 WS/min (not counting gun delay post-WS, if it exists.)

/WAR 51% Haste - 1.83 seconds per attack round. 13 contacts from WS to 100TP. 8.85 attack rounds per 100 TP average. 16.2 seconds per WS. 32.8 attack rounds per minute and 3.7 WS/min (not counting gun delay post-WS, if it exists.)

4.27/3.7 = 1.15ish, so this is probably the equilibrium point between the two in terms of total WS damage. That said, lower Acc, like not having Ancient Torque or Toreador Rings, will favor /DRG. Lower Haste will favor /WAR, as /DRG's +6% contribution will seem less. Also, it should be noted that /DRG still gets 14% more contacts per minute, while /WAR gets an average of +15% Atk. In the TP phase +% Atk doesn't = % damage increase though, depending where you are on the pDIF curve.


Basically, it needs to be parsed. With excellent enough gear and support though, I think /DRG deserves consideration.

[Shinryuu]

You're forgetting that due to level correction to pDIF, Berserk is more than 25% damage. Basically, on merit level mobs it's more around 30% (average: 18%).

[Fryte]

There's always all this talk about how X job can do the most damage with sub Y, but what happens when you do all this damage? Don't you just get pecking flurried to the face over and over?

[Shinryuu]

COR? Seldomly. COR is the guy that makes the WAR get flurried even more often.

[Thorny]

COR? Seldomly. COR is the guy that makes the WAR get flurried even more often.

I take it to the face when you're not there

[Shinryuu]

Level WAR you dolt.

[Enedin]

Topic-related question. I calculate my own accuracy using this formula from otherwiki:

Accuracy = (Combat Skill Contribution + DEX Contribution + Equipment + Traits + Abilities)*(1+food%)

...and with Sushi, that's +15%. This means that 22 acc from /rng = (11*1.15) = 12.65, which comes to 12 hit rate. Is this correct or does food not take traits into consideration?

[Shinryuu]

22*1.15=25.3, so you'd gain either 12.5% hitrate or a bit more depending on other ACC. SE doesn't truncate or floor hitrate, just ACC.

[Enedin]

SE doesn't truncate or floor hitrate, just ACC.

I see, thanks. So /rng offers 12.5 hitrate with Sushi.

[Maimed]

Is Cor/Sam a viable DD option?

[Shinryuu]

Nope. Meditate is meh (so is Barrage, but just saying), and Store TP +15 doesn't get you TP faster than ACC+22.

[cdgreg]

Well I couldn't resist. Upgraded both rings to Toreador's today, and am hunting down a SH+1...I justified the toreador upgrade by telling myself I can use them on kraken rng too