In defense of SE

[Tomiko]

you know, tbh I don't think it's an issue that they banned innocent people. the issue is how they handled it after.

Honestly, this and actually having a GM staff who knows something about the game would be a huge step forward. For the game to be out as long as it has and GMs not knowing simple things they should know is bullshit.

When players know more about what can/can't be accessed while suspended/banned than SE employees, there's a problem considering its a main part of their job. Game mechanics I can understand to an extent (although if they don't know they shouldn't say something is working properly when we know its not. Just say they'll relay the message like some GMs do say). Consistency would also be nice.

[orson]

SE is a huge multinational company. Your dollar is your choice in how you support it. They don't need you to make excuses for them and their feelings will not be hurt if we complain. As a customer we have every right to be upset if they fuck up. Seriously they don't care and don't need you "supporting" them, they are not the military, police, fireman, etc. Other than your money and slight input on their products they don't need anything or necessarily want anything from you. Your statement is so ridiculous, I can't believe you have such an ego that you think SE needs you to defend them over anything.

[Thiefami]

Regardless of how much you pay for a product, the fact is you are paying for a product or service and choosing to support them. The least SE can do is support their loyal customers and show they appreciate it. In reality it is not merely 12.95, people likely have a mule or two thats one to two more dollars, you buy the expansions when they first came out that is 20 to 30 dollars. Mini expansions, security tokens, merchandise relating to ffxi, music relating to ffxi, supporting their fan festivals - flying out to CA, renting hotels, buying tickets just to attend.

We support them, they should show us a lot more respect and shell out some answers and needless to say, give these people back their accounts. In setting up a system like this I personally believe it was retarded NOT to set up an efficient appeal system. There is no reason for all of this.

[spooky]

This thread wouldn't have been made in the old Advanced

[hagun]

you know, tbh I don't think it's an issue that they banned innocent people. the issue is how they handled it after.

You're right in that they are a huge corporation and have a lot going for them. So mistakes can happen. They've happened in all MMOs. The overall issue is...have they admitted it?

anytime I've seen an issue similar to this magnitude be it WoW, EQ, WAR, etc. the company makes a statement right away stating: we are sorry for this incident, we are looking into correcting the matter, please be patient while we fix this, and so on. Then the company works hella hard to get it corrected asap.

SE never does this, which is poor way to run the game. I'm sure things will get resolved, but at a much slower pace, and they'll never come out and admit it.

This. Mistakes are just too human. If you try and correct the mistake, then it's fine. However, when you do nothing to admit and fix a mistake, then it's pretty rotten to the core.

SE is terrible at so many simple things it makes you sad but whatever. Life has never been fair so why should it start now?

[Hyan]

Regardless of how much you pay for a product, the fact is you are paying for a product or service and choosing to support them. The least SE can do is support their loyal customers and show they appreciate it. In reality it is not merely 12.95, people likely have a mule or two thats one to two more dollars, you buy the expansions when they first came out that is 20 to 30 dollars. Mini expansions, security tokens, merchandise relating to ffxi, music relating to ffxi, supporting their fan festivals - flying out to CA, renting hotels, buying tickets just to attend.

We support them, they should show us a lot more respect and shell out some answers and needless to say, give these people back their accounts. In setting up a system like this I personally believe it was retarded NOT to set up an efficient appeal system. There is no reason for all of this.

No they shouldn't.

[Corrderio]

If this is in response to SE banning gardeners, then I am not defending SE on this one. There is a HUGE difference between a recall and falsely accusing a group of individuals based on loosely based criteria. That is where the problem is. Players were getting banned for gardening, an activity that has existed within FFXI for years and did not break any ToS agreements. Players had every right to call in and complain to SE about their accounts.

Another thing is that companies that make mistakes usually own up to it and offer an official apology. So far, a few people that I know of have gotten their accounts returned after being banned from Gardening, but there has yet to be any public apology from SE. Right now they are showing really bad Customer Service.

I'm going to have to agree for this, a program doesn't have the ability to say who's RMT and who isn't. Trial accounts getting perma banned for selling items to a certain NPC? Legit players with a ton of mules used for gardening getting perma banned to? I'm sorry but that's BS and poor execution on SE's part.

I'll admit I haven't looked into this much, however it seems like SE is starting to unban people. Sucks you need to call their support lines and wish for the best of luck.

[Leknaat]

SE likes to put on the spin that they're listening to player feedback when in reality other forces ultimately drive their decisions. The playerbase feedback is generally ignored unless it threatens to reach the level of 'massive PR disaster'.

SE wanted the vista certified sticker for FFXI. As I understand it, one of the requirements was a windowed mode. They introduced a PC windowed mode along with the expansion that had the sticker. I doubt they'll ever fix the issues with the windowed mode because there's no requirement that it not be a poorly implemented Windowed mode.

Around May/June 2006 Japan's Ministry of Economy, Trade and Industry started to investigate the possibility of RMT laundering or otherwise abusing the Yen. They kinda discovered that a few billion yen worth of un-taxable money was leaving the country in RMT operations and they suggested that developers 'self-regulate' their games. (ref: Japanese gov't looks into gold farming - News at GameSpot) Obviously if they can't regulate the game, the government is going to have to consider stepping in which if I understand correctly is something they don't want happening because it's along the vein of a disgraced 'you can't be trusted to regulate your own game, you're an untrustworthy company' kind of way.

Who knows, maybe they've decided that sacrificing legit players is worth keeping the government out of the MMO regulation business.

[Groovebox]

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3.../unsafelow.jpg

[Shamaya]

Sorry, there's a difference between one mistake and many mistakes.
And there's a difference between small mistakes and huge mistakes.

SE has made many huge mistakes.

It is a big company. They make a lot of great games. But it's easy to see that their management doesn't understand how to control FFXI--not just in a moral way, but also to maximize their own profit.

Quit whining? How many of your friends have been banned or or are at risk of ban? And as if that were the only thing wrong with the game. Honestly you're talking about getting a fair deal. MMO's can be fairly profitable--their MMO is fairly profitable. They're getting a good deal off of these long-term subscriptions. In all honesty, over the years I think they've crossed the line of poor product service many many times--to the point of infraction.

Really, they owe it to us to give a certain appropriate level of customer service to go along with this product. The problem is that with the legal system: 1. For game's like this, it's international; 2. Legal regulation of online games, MMOs especially, has not nearly caught up with the progress of the industry.

We have product regulation laws and consumer rights for a reason. People keep pointing to the TOS. "It's their game." "They can ban you for whatever they want, whenever." That's the problem--the problem that they can get away with selling a product along those very lines and escape scott-free when their integrity comes heavily into question.

[ringthree]

Companies make mistakes, obviously. Good companies recognize those mistakes. They engage in dialog with their consumer base about those mistakes. They seek to make amends with, and in many cases compensate, those who have who have been negativity impacted by those mistakes. Many times it's just a sincere "We're sorry."

I understand both the complaints and defenses of SE. They both make sense, and can coexist.

But this statement is false. Even the best companies will deny mistakes for a long time before they ever do something about them. Car companies, computer companies, software companies, you name it. They will all blame the consumer until the problem gets so big they have to do something about it.

SE is just a company, like any other. They fix problems when they get large enough. Until then they ignore them.

[ryskar]

I work a shitty retail customer service job. If I gave the kind of customer service that SE does, I would be fired.

End of story.

I usually like your posts, but I especially like this one since I'm in the same boat.

I work at a foodcourt for a theater, and we're expected to go above and beyond and give our customer a perfect "movie and dining" experience. We smile, we joke, we act like we're having fun, etc. Don't get me wrong, the job isn't bad at all, I love it. But, we have to be at our absolute best, even with irritable customers. I imagine most jobs where you interact with people face to face are similar.

The job's given me a good appreciation for customer service, and consequently, it has made me dislike SE even more. Maybe I'm just butthurt over my account, who knows.

[Starr]

You're logged in for 12 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year.

Speak for yourself? From February to July I logged in the first half for about 10 hours per week or less and the latter half 5 hours or less til I finally closed my accounts this month. You seem to think it is justifyable by SE to be as shit as they are because they are working hard? Oh hey, how about they employ more fucking staff? Simple solution for a simple problem if that is indeed the case.

[jimbobsonofgod]

Wonder if the call centers are even square. Probably some out sourced company that's given a series of guidelines to follow and are not allowed to deviate from said guidelines regardless of whatever is being said by the person crying on the line.

[Corrderio]

Wonder if the call centers are even square. Probably some out sourced company that's given a series of guidelines to follow and are not allowed to deviate from said guidelines regardless of whatever is being said by the person crying on the line.

Wouldn't surprise me

[Tsuki]

I've been working in the customer service industry for years now... I've done many different jobs, mostly tech support but within serveral seperate jobs each with different areas of expertise. The golden rule thats been used in all of my jobs is:

Don't make the company look bad.

That is to say that even if its an issue you are aware of, or have come across multiple times, and you know the source of the problem and you know that the company is liable...

Never admit to anything.

Until the official statement is out, or they bypass that whole "we know theres a problem we're fixing it" and just fix it and don't mention it. (lol hi SE) Its forced on you not to admit any liability.

Admitting to liability, by proxy, you are admitting that the company is or has been incapable in some way of providing service to its customers.

They force this stuff down your throat, and if you don't comply if you get monitored you could get penalized, if it keeps happening you could lose your job. They even teach you tools to avoid placing the company at fault. Emphasize, never sympathize... Say "I'm sorry" instead of "We're sorry"...

I think that this is the way SE treats its employees and this is how they generally feel about business. I don't agree with it though, I would be much happier as a customer for any company to get an apology or even just an acknowledgment that something is wrong with their system. I can understand how they get the notion that apologizing or admitting fault automatically makes them incapable, but that would have to be some extreme case of shit messing up every fucking day so they have 7 apologies a week posted lol... I think for the amount of times stuff gets messed up in this game, they can afford to apologize and explain whats up without looking like idiots. Shit happens, trying to hide it or ignore it only angers people more.

[Day]

100% in agreement with OP, couldn't have said it better myself. Quit fucking crying.

[enoch]

Old saying - a liberal is a conservative that's never been mugged. Wonder how OP would feel if SE jacked his shit and there was no recourse for him. "Yes, we're sorry, it's entirely our mistake but there's absolutely nothing we're willing to do to help you. Have a nice day."

[Day]

I think he'd feel ok knowing the hours of enjoyment he's gotten for less than 50 cents a day and I do believe that was his point.

[Kkel]

I understand both the complaints and defenses of SE. They both make sense, and can coexist.

But this statement is false. Even the best companies will deny mistakes for a long time before they ever do something about them. Car companies, computer companies, software companies, you name it. They will all blame the consumer until the problem gets so big they have to do something about it.

SE is just a company, like any other. They fix problems when they get large enough. Until then they ignore them.

Not that i want to get into a semantic argument, but by saying that statement is false, you're saying that no companies operate in the manner i described, which is, well, false. There are a huge number of companies that accept responsibility for mistakes or errors in products/services prior to consumer outcry. Especially in this day and age, where a single consumer complaint can quickly snowball into a PR nightmare due to communcations channels like the internet.