In defense of SE

[enoch]

I think he'd feel ok knowing the hours of enjoyment he's gotten for less than 50 cents a day and I do believe that was his point.

I'm calling bullshit on it, though. If it happened to him, I don't think he'd just shrug his shoulders and chalk it up to experience. "Oh well, got fucked over, didn't have it coming to me but I guess that's life." and move on.

Gimme a break. He'd do what everyone else who's already been in that position has done... call POL hotline, wait on hold forever, deal with someone who's unwilling to do much of anything at all to help you, rinse, repeat, and get increasingly frustrated as time wears on with no progress.

[Ohaigaiz]

Old saying - a liberal is a conservative that's never been mugged. Wonder how OP would feel if SE jacked his shit and there was no recourse for him. "Yes, we're sorry, it's entirely our mistake but there's absolutely nothing we're willing to do to help you. Have a nice day."

i've never had to call se for anything. been playing for 6 years. have better security on your pc and don't be such a fuckhead with things on your account. an account YOU made, YOURSELF, no one else has ever had access to, YOU didn't halfass your information, you won't get that tiring shit from se.

99.98% of the time all the fuckups that people qq and whine about is not SEs fault. this thread is pointless by the way, even though i 100% agree with op. people take this game for fucking granted. people take life for granted. i don't think about the starving children in africa when i eat but if i have run out of ramen noodles well at least i can go buy more. people have a hard time looking at the brighter side of things. shit, i get emo from time to time, it's human, but i brush that shit off just as fast as i got angry.

really, day has said it many times before. 'hey, i'm eating shit. wow gonna keep eating this shit even though it's totally shitty shit and i hate this shit.' blah blah. if you don't like ffxi quit fucking playing jesus fucking christ. no one is making you play. SE is not going to fulfull your wishes and follow your demand. they make one compromise for this game for some shit head and then all the shitheads want some compromise. they run it how they think it should be ran. if you really truly 100% hated and didn't like how this game is done, you wouldn't be here. q fucking q. people really need to stop whining about every fucking thing.

oh, and before some stupid fuck head comes along and says u mad or omgawd ur whining too whatever, i guess i am whining. shit needs to be said though. get. the. fuck. over. it.

[Ayn]

I'm calling bullshit on it, though. If it happened to him, I don't think he'd just shrug his shoulders and chalk it up to experience. "Oh well, got fucked over, didn't have it coming to me but I guess that's life." and move on.

Regardless of what the OP and I agree or disagree about, after knowing him personally, I imagine he actually would react in such a way towards the game, anyway. Assuming that is a rather weak argument.

[Mistress Stowastiq]

I understand both the complaints and defenses of SE. They both make sense, and can coexist.

But this statement is false. Even the best companies will deny mistakes for a long time before they ever do something about them. Car companies, computer companies, software companies, you name it. They will all blame the consumer until the problem gets so big they have to do something about it.

SE is just a company, like any other. They fix problems when they get large enough. Until then they ignore them.

^

If everyone who was solid in their grievances with SE read the TOS, clicking "deny" or "no" when they found it to be unfair therefore refusing to be a consumer, their voice would count for more than simply remaining a customer, upset with the product.

Though some have stopped supporting the business financially, many still provide SE with daily confirmation of their approval, via log in, via bank transaction. Our sustained patronage can be taken evidence of our tolerance of their business practices.

"SE is just a company, like any other. They fix problems when they get large enough. Until then they ignore them." > Loss of profit in significant percentages that are directly tied to specific customer disputes can be a large enough problem to fix.

While some in this thread have compared SE to other business models, how many people would continue to buy from other companies that they disapprove of as much as they do SE?

I am not trying to start a protest with my suggestion because I am really happy with SE, thus my patronage. I do care about my comrades though and neighbors in the game, wondering why they would support something they despise so vehemently. No one should pay for such grief if it is not a necessary amenity or.....a masochistic fetish :D .

[Mugmug]

SE is a horrible company, with some of the worst customer service around. No way to defend it.

To those who say "You only play X per month, stop bitching" you do realize we can just take our monthly payment and go play a different MMO which actually values its customers.

[Day]

SE is a horrible company, with some of the worst customer service around. No way to defend it.

To those who say "You only play X per month, stop bitching" you do realize we can just take our monthly payment and go play a different MMO which actually values its customers.

Then do it and shut the fuck up.

[Mugmug]

Then do it and shut the fuck up.

I quit over a year ago.

No need to get butthurt over someone replying to a thread.

[ringthree]

Not that i want to get into a semantic argument, but by saying that statement is false, you're saying that no companies operate in the manner i described, which is, well, false. There are a huge number of companies that accept responsibility for mistakes or errors in products/services prior to consumer outcry. Especially in this day and age, where a single consumer complaint can quickly snowball into a PR nightmare due to communcations channels like the internet.

You may think that your problem could snowball into a PR nightmare, but you are forgetting that the portion of consumers with problems is very small, and those that complain get an inflated sense of importance because they are just complaining to other people with the same problem.

For example, you are taking BG to be a true representation of FFXI players when in fact it is just a very small fraction of total players. And that very small fraction has a very small fraction of people with the problem of getting banned incorrectly.

Companies do not fix problems unless the cost of fixing the problem is less than ignoring the problem. They will continue to ignore and deny problems until it cuts into their profits. This happens in every industry every day.

[ringthree]

"SE is just a company, like any other. They fix problems when they get large enough. Until then they ignore them." ]> Loss of profit in significant percentages that are directly tied to specific customer disputes can be a large enough problem to fix.

While some in this thread have compared SE to other business models, how many people would continue to buy from other companies that they disapprove of as much as they do SE?

The fact that the American car industry still exists (barely LOL) is definite proof that poor products and poor customer service does not necessarily correlate with consumer purchasing.

Ever heard of Microsoft?

McDonalds?

[WyldFyre]

i've never had to call se for anything. been playing for 6 years. have better security on your pc and don't be such a fuckhead with things on your account. an account YOU made, YOURSELF, no one else has ever had access to, YOU didn't halfass your information, you won't get that tiring shit from se.

99.98% of the time all the fuckups that people qq and whine about is not SEs fault. this thread is pointless by the way, even though i 100% agree with op. people take this game for fucking granted. people take life for granted. i don't think about the starving children in africa when i eat but if i have run out of ramen noodles well at least i can go buy more. people have a hard time looking at the brighter side of things. shit, i get emo from time to time, it's human, but i brush that shit off just as fast as i got angry.

really, day has said it many times before. 'hey, i'm eating shit. wow gonna keep eating this shit even though it's totally shitty shit and i hate this shit.' blah blah. if you don't like ffxi quit fucking playing jesus fucking christ. no one is making you play. SE is not going to fulfull your wishes and follow your demand. they make one compromise for this game for some shit head and then all the shitheads want some compromise. they run it how they think it should be ran. if you really truly 100% hated and didn't like how this game is done, you wouldn't be here. q fucking q. people really need to stop whining about every fucking thing.

oh, and before some stupid fuck head comes along and says u mad or omgawd ur whining too whatever, i guess i am whining. shit needs to be said though. get. the. fuck. over. it.

nerd rage ftw.

[Day]

I quit over a year ago.

No need to get butthurt over someone replying to a thread.

sup kettle

[ryskar]

i've never had to call se for anything. been playing for 6 years. have better security on your pc and don't be such a fuckhead with things on your account. an account YOU made, YOURSELF, no one else has ever had access to, YOU didn't halfass your information, you won't get that tiring shit from se.

99.98% of the time all the fuckups that people qq and whine about is not SEs fault. this thread is pointless by the way, even though i 100% agree with op. people take this game for fucking granted. people take life for granted. i don't think about the starving children in africa when i eat but if i have run out of ramen noodles well at least i can go buy more. people have a hard time looking at the brighter side of things. shit, i get emo from time to time, it's human, but i brush that shit off just as fast as i got angry.

really, day has said it many times before. 'hey, i'm eating shit. wow gonna keep eating this shit even though it's totally shitty shit and i hate this shit.' blah blah. if you don't like ffxi quit fucking playing jesus fucking christ. no one is making you play. SE is not going to fulfull your wishes and follow your demand. they make one compromise for this game for some shit head and then all the shitheads want some compromise. they run it how they think it should be ran. if you really truly 100% hated and didn't like how this game is done, you wouldn't be here. q fucking q. people really need to stop whining about every fucking thing.

oh, and before some stupid fuck head comes along and says u mad or omgawd ur whining too whatever, i guess i am whining. shit needs to be said though. get. the. fuck. over. it.

Read the LM-17 thread? I've never done shit, I just changed my payment info and got banned for suspicious activity.

I'm not going to disagree with you on whining about it, whining really doesn't help. All you can really do is write to Bill Bisby, since you can't contact the people who have control over the situation. There's really nothing else to do.

[Drunknmunky]

I quit over a year ago.

No need to get butthurt over someone replying to a thread.

He is not butthurt at all. The problem is that he is those types of kids who ride the yellow short bus every morning to go to school and get makes fun of by the normal kids.

Moreover, keep in mind that these types of people are the one who pretty much spends hours on forums replying stupid shit all the time. Unfortunately, it is very difficult to get rid of them because they pretty much do not have anything important to do in their real life. All you can pretty much do it is to ignore them because it is difficult for them to comprehend things.

In addition, if you feel this thread is pointless and stupid. Then why the fuck do you even bother to even post? Let me guess. To look cool or to prove to all of us you are a retard.

Hmm... I wonder which answer you are going to give us now. Either way since I know you probably going to make yourself look like an ass I am just pretty much going to let you do it.

In addition, if I do not response to your weak insults it is not because I have nothing else to say to you or because I ran out of ammo. It is simply because the last thing everyone wants on these thread is seven long pages of arguing on whose penis is bigger.

I hope you and your friends will be able to understand.

[Sivone]

Being someone who has worked in technical support and customer service (including billing) I will say outright that there is no defense for the way SE has handled this. Your customer service agents must have a way to handle things like this and they must have an escalation path for things that go beyond what they can personally handle. That's just good business. However, most companies these days seem to be getting towards 'confuse and frustrate your customer as much as possible and maybe they'll stop bothering you'.

[ZhiGaruda]

There were far too many retarded posts to read through the lot - so I'll just say what I was thinking after reading the first one and a few after.

Yes - I completely agree - being such a big company, doing such a big, usually good, job, there WILL be mistakes. That is a given, as nothing is perfect.

But that does NOT mean, that after said mistakes are made, they have the right to just give the people they wronged the cold-shoulder. I get it - they banned people by accident - that's ok, seriously. Shit happens. Leaving the ones who were banned by mistake, banned..NOT ok.

[Day]

He is not butthurt at all. The problem is that he is those types of kids who ride the yellow short bus every morning to go to school and get makes fun of by the normal kids.

Moreover, keep in mind that these types of people are the one who pretty much spends hours on forums replying stupid shit all the time. Unfortunately, it is very difficult to get rid of them because they pretty much do not have anything important to do in their real life. All you can pretty much do it is to ignore them because it is difficult for them to comprehend things.

In addition, if you feel this thread is pointless and stupid. Then why the fuck do you even bother to even post? Let me guess. To look cool or to prove to all of us you are a retard.

Hmm... I wonder which answer you are going to give us now. Either way since I know you probably going to make yourself look like an ass I am just pretty much going to let you do it.

In addition, if I do not response to your weak insults it is not because I have nothing else to say to you or because I ran out of ammo. It is simply because the last thing everyone wants on these thread is seven long pages of arguing on whose penis is bigger.

I hope you and your friends will be able to understand.

I don't think the thread is pointless and stupid, are you blind? I said I 100% agree with OP and what he said needs to be said. The crying should stop. The company has been this way for 7 years or so now? Nothing has changed, especially not the whining and crying, so either quit and shut the hell up or continue playing, have fun, and shut the hell up. No one wants to hear this whining alllllll the time. It's the most futile thing you can possibly do.

GG on your little "I'm better than you" insults while doing the exact thing you are accusing me of, and posting absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand.

[Panthera]

one cannot expect people nor their creations to work perfectly. However, the question is, given

1) that their program creates false positives and bans innocent players who may not be able to recover their accounts

AND

2) is an efficient and effective means to deal with RMT

should the script still be used?


Before answering, one must ask

1) What if it were a friends account?
2) What if it were my account?
3) are the false positives "acceptable losses?"




This sounds like bad programming and bad testing. I think they should have run the program, but without actually implementing the "banning" part to see if false positives occur. This script was wreckless.

Really, RMT are like criminals. We must tolerate and accept bits of crime and violence, to prevent an overly strong and aggressive state, which can only produce worse crime and violence. RMT will never fully go away, and the cost of attempting it is much too high; risking the accounts of the friends we play with, a huge reason to play an MMO, and risks even our own accounts. RMT's presence is better than the inability to play at all. Funny a thread defending SE would produce post defending RMT, at least as the lesser of two evils.

[Melios]

Most likely this topic is directed at peeps who haven't been fucked by a large corporation but still Q_Q about everything possible (when it has nothing to do with them at all, most of the time).

Believe it or not most people playing are like that.

Just look at all the people here who throw a tantrum when a version update preview isn't what they want.

[Shinta]

I'm calling bullshit on it, though. If it happened to him, I don't think he'd just shrug his shoulders and chalk it up to experience. "Oh well, got fucked over, didn't have it coming to me but I guess that's life." and move on.

Gimme a break. He'd do what everyone else who's already been in that position has done... call POL hotline, wait on hold forever, deal with someone who's unwilling to do much of anything at all to help you, rinse, repeat, and get increasingly frustrated as time wears on with no progress.

I had to contact POL recently, and I used the chat window option online. I have to say, I waited about 8 minutes, and they fixed my problem. Phone is the worst option I'm sure.

sup kettle

sup asshole

[Fridell]

SE is nothing compared to MOST big companies really, just check GM.....