In defense of SE

[McGoonagle]

I'm just wondering how much of this would have happened if Brogame had not been so aggressive, clumsy, and stupid.

[Day]

sup asshole

what up with the personal attacks?

[WyldFyre]

what up with the personal attacks?

You started it with all that kettle talk.


</sarcasm>

[Absolutely Virtue]

You idiots continue to pay for a service you despise, from a company you hate, and somehow I'm the moron.

You have infinite other options to waste your time, from collecting baseball cards to teaching yourself to knit to playing WoW. I'm only asking you to politely shut the fuck up and quit if you hate SE so much. Has it not dawned on you that SE knows you'll put up with a certain amount of bullshit in order to play this game? Has it never occurred to you that they're aware you can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs, and they're willing to break yours if it means they can continue to satisfy the 95%+ people who are happy enough to renew each month? They read these boards, they see you bitch, and the game still chugs on 7 years after release. What does that tell them? You won't put your money where your mouth is. They've effectively called your bluff, and proved you're all talk.

I understand that you feel that you can't just walk away after all the time you've invested in the game. On the surface, that makes sense. If your account was banned but you were innocent, I'm sure that's very sad. Hell, if you cheated and got caught I'm sure you're probably just as upset. And you definitely should be. But you will learn that, in time, you'll find something else to do. People lose their children to cancer- I think you can lose your toon to an LM-17. If you cannot, perhaps the problem might not lie with SE...

[Hyan]

I understand that you feel that you can't just walk away after all the time you've invested in the game.

In the end, everyone is going to have to accept that they'll have to do this at some point. It's no different if you'll do it now or in the future. All your work will be 'gone' no matter what.

[Day]

Exactly, how long you guys plan on crying when they shut the servers down?

That's rhetorical btw.

[jaryk]

You idiots continue to pay for a service you despise, from a company you hate, and somehow I'm the moron.

You have infinite other options to waste your time, from collecting baseball cards to teaching yourself to knit to playing WoW. I'm only asking you to politely shut the fuck up and quit if you hate SE so much. Has it not dawned on you that SE knows you'll put up with a certain amount of bullshit in order to play this game? Has it never occurred to you that they're aware you can't make an omelet without breaking a few eggs, and they're willing to break yours if it means they can continue to satisfy the 95%+ people who are happy enough to renew each month? They read these boards, they see you bitch, and the game still chugs on 7 years after release. What does that tell them? You won't put your money where your mouth is. They've effectively called your bluff, and proved you're all talk.

I understand that you feel that you can't just walk away after all the time you've invested in the game. On the surface, that makes sense. If your account was banned but you were innocent, I'm sure that's very sad. Hell, if you cheated and got caught I'm sure you're probably just as upset. And you definitely should be. But you will learn that, in time, you'll find something else to do. People lose their children to cancer- I think you can lose your toon to an LM-17. If you cannot, perhaps the problem might not lie with SE...

You're a moron for thinking that you're going to change other people's opinions and for not understanding that people have a basis for their complaints. Just because people have issues with SE doesn't mean they don't enjoy the game, in fact most complaints within the FFXI forums aren't FFXI sucks, it's SE sucks at they way they treat their customers. Some people may hate the way they get treated at McDonald's but still like the food. You're fighting a losing battle, your intent was good, but was entirely misdirected.

[Hyan]

people have a basis for their complaints.

Do they, really? And I mean most people that post here. They see some trial account banned and post "omg thats so horrible SE sucks I'm gonna quit soon" while the whole issue has nothing to do with them and never will.

The banned guy does have a basis to his complaint though, sure.

[McGoonagle]

You idiots continue to pay for a service you despise, from a company you hate, and somehow I'm the moron.

Despise? No, but I was disappointed in the way that this last round of bannings:

• caused collateral damage,
• and how the collateral damage was handled by SE

The root of the problem does not lie with SE, but with the RMTs and the people who buy from them. I believe that the lunatics at Brogame made a continuing problem much worse and precipitated a need to do something hard and fast.

Those are the people that need to be blamed for this.

SE does have to admit that it caused collateral damage, make it good, and do a lot better on accuracy of the banning and transparency of the appeals process.

[Hyan]

Despise? No, but I was disappointed in the way that this last round of bannings:

• caused collateral damage,
• and how the collateral damage was handled by SE

The root of the problem does not lie with SE, but with the RMTs and the people who buy from them. I believe that the lunatics at Brogame made a continuing problem much worse and precipitated a need to do something hard and fast.

Those are the people that need to be blamed for this.

SE does have to admit that it caused collateral damage, make it good, and do a lot better on accuracy of the banning and transparency of the appeals process.

Did this affect you in any way except positively?

[Kkel]

You may think that your problem could snowball into a PR nightmare, but you are forgetting that the portion of consumers with problems is very small, and those that complain get an inflated sense of importance because they are just complaining to other people with the same problem.

For example, you are taking BG to be a true representation of FFXI players when in fact it is just a very small fraction of total players. And that very small fraction has a very small fraction of people with the problem of getting banned incorrectly.

Companies do not fix problems unless the cost of fixing the problem is less than ignoring the problem. They will continue to ignore and deny problems until it cuts into their profits. This happens in every industry every day.

Of course it's a small portion, but that's the issue. Modern communications channels can give a small group of people a huge voice. That voice can easily have a negative impact, especially on a corporations public image, especially in an environment/culture that is wary of large corporations to begin with. This is a major focus of the professional media training process that consumer/public relations divisions of large corporations go through.

BG is obviously a representation of FFXI players. The people posting play FFXI (well, some of them). It's obviously a very small portion as well, considering just the fact that the game is played in multiple countries around the world. The number of people here isn't the issue, it's how the corporation has handled the situation being presented by these people. Clearly SE isn't going to radically alter or adjust policy based on the complaints of a small number of players, but that doesn't mean that the issues the players, the consumers, are bringing forth aren't valid. It's the treatment of the consumer in these instances that is irresponsible.

Again, not all large corporations are big, evil monsters. Not all large companies/corporations wait for the fire to get out of control before trying to put it out.

Of course... another issue here is probably that the video game consumer base has a reputation for being bitchy, spammy, whiners with an overdeveloped sense of entitlement. I'm sure that every complaint that passes through customer support on SE's end it taken with a huge grain of salt based on experience with that reputation. It wouldn't surprise me if dealing with that is part of their CR/PR training.

[McGoonagle]

Did this affect you in any way except positively?

I wasn't directly affected by it at all.

[Absolutely Virtue]

Of course it's a small portion, but that's the issue. Modern communications channels can give a small group of people a huge voice. That voice can easily have a negative impact, especially on a corporations public image, especially in an environment/culture that is wary of large corporations to begin with.

I'm sure every one of us knows someone who was banned in some fashion, legitimately or otherwise. And we've also read all the stories about the SE fuck ups. But it doesn't seem to have any affect on the bottom line. I feel sorry for the people who have lost their accounts, as that has got to suck. But it has never once made me consider cancelling my own.

The internet QQ might make people feel better as a form of catharsis. But at the end of the day, the answer to "all I wanna know is, who is coming with me?!?!" is always crickets chirping.

[Kkel]

Of course... another issue here is probably that the video game consumer base has a reputation for being bitchy, spammy, whiners with an overdeveloped sense of entitlement. I'm sure that every complaint that passes through customer support on SE's end it taken with a huge grain of salt based on experience with that reputation. It wouldn't surprise me if dealing with that is part of their CR/PR training.

This game represents a unique subset of consumer known for excessive and often unjustified internet bitching. The lack of it's effect on SE/policy is hardly surprising, but i highly doubt that it's solely the reputation of the consumer base that leads to such dissatisfaction with the company.

I was mostly replying to ringthree's statement that no company in existence operates in a responsible manner when it comes to handling mistakes made by said company, especially in relation to their consumer base.

[ringthree]

You're a moron for thinking that you're going to change other people's opinions and for not understanding that people have a basis for their complaints. Just because people have issues with SE doesn't mean they don't enjoy the game, in fact most complaints within the FFXI forums aren't FFXI sucks, it's SE sucks at they way they treat their customers. Some people may hate the way they get treated at McDonald's but still like the food. You're fighting a losing battle, your intent was good, but was entirely misdirected.

Are you a moron for doing exactly what you called them a moron for doing?

It's a forum, people express opinions, usually most emphatically to those that do not agree. It's healthy, normal and beneficial.

[jaryk]

Are you a moron for doing exactly what you called them a moron for doing?

It's a forum, people express opinions, usually most emphatically to those that do not agree. It's healthy, normal and beneficial.

Never tried to change his opinion, merely provided a different perspective, I assume that's what you're referring to so your logic doesn't really apply. At no point did I say believe me, or listen to me, not sure how my post does the same thing as his..... I think you may be drinking or something.

[Tempyst]

"This wouldn't have flown in the old avanced" is the new "this is advanced?"

same forum mentality with different words, oh well it was a nice try anyway admins

[Anomander]

My biggest complaint about the recent bannings was the fact that many of the people who were mistakenly banned (and later overturned) were initially treated in a rather crappy manner by SE and often told that "your ban will not be overturned, but we will submit a complaint anyway." Sorry, but you should not treat paying customers this way.